Brother trying to join the Military. Need advice.

[garbonzo1991gt]

I can really only speak from a former Warrant's point of view. I did just shy of 9 years with the Army and I agree with a lot of what Jake(Saleensc281) says. The leadership, especially, is lacking. Though it's mostly, in my opinion, due to the stigma that is taught in ROTC programs and Military Academies and who is sent (the Shitbags who couldn't handle the real Army) to teach the future leaders of the Army. I can't tell you the number of times I've met a new LT that has been taught not to trust his senior NCOs and Warrant Officers, which are the backbone of the Army. Especially the NCOs. Hell, it's even in their creed. As to the Shitbags teaching the future leaders. I can't tell you the number of times I've seen egregious ****ups by these people and instead of going to jail or being thrown out of the military, they get sent to an ROTC program or West Point. It's kind of scary... There is quality leadership out there. I've just found, in my experience, they are few and far between. Career advancement over taking care of their troops is the biggest offender.

Now that I've gotten that off my chest. I will say your brother could benefit from the environment that the Army provides. Structure and discipline will help a lot. Make him act like an adult. Not so much as a lower enlisted soldier but when he reaches NCO levels he basically gets put into a sink or swim leadership position. Sometimes the right kick in the ass is all someone needs. The biggest thing I can convey to your brother is that he needs to pick a profession that he can use outside of the Army when that day comes.

Branhammer, you hit the nail on the head as well as far as the Air Force goes. Get a job you are interested in and work your ass off you'll be rewarded. Might have to kiss a little ass too. Worth it in the end though... Unfortunately a lesson I never learned. The ass kissing I mean...

 

[Branhammer]

I can really only speak from a former Warrant's point of view. I did just shy of 9 years with the Army and I agree with a lot of what Jake(Saleensc281) says. The leadership, especially, is lacking. Though it's mostly, in my opinion, due to the stigma that is taught in ROTC programs and Military Academies and who is sent (the Shitbags who couldn't handle the real Army) to teach the future leaders of the Army. I can't tell you the number of times I've met a new LT that has been taught not to trust his senior NCOs and Warrant Officers, which are the backbone of the Army. Especially the NCOs. Hell, it's even in their creed. As to the Shitbags teaching the future leaders. I can't tell you the number of times I've seen egregious ****ups by these people and instead of going to jail or being thrown out of the military, they get sent to an ROTC program or West Point. It's kind of scary... There is quality leadership out there. I've just found, in my experience, they are few and far between. Career advancement over taking care of their troops is the biggest offender.

Now that I've gotten that off my chest. I will say your brother could benefit from the environment that the Army provides. Structure and discipline will help a lot. Make him act like an adult. Not so much as a lower enlisted soldier but when he reaches NCO levels he basically gets put into a sink or swim leadership position. Sometimes the right kick in the ass is all someone needs. The biggest thing I can convey to your brother is that he needs to pick a profession that he can use outside of the Army when that day comes.

Branhammer, you hit the nail on the head as well as far as the Air Force goes. Get a job you are interested in and work your ass off you'll be rewarded. Might have to kiss a little ass too. Worth it in the end though... Unfortunately a lesson I never learned. The ass kissing I mean...

Personally, I never had to kiss ass. Although I did find common ground with certain supervisors and build rapport with them. So, while I didn't really "kiss ass" I will plead guilty to being a "Good old boys club member" from time to time. Playing golf with/drinking with/cooking out with the right people doesn't hurt.

 

[greatwhite198]

I agree with this, I'm currently an active duty junior Marine, I'm not really the type to sit back and do nothing, but i've seen how basic training has changed types like that to some hard workers.

 

[Katy TX5.0]

Is it really that bad now? I got out of the USMC in 2004 and my memories are of good training and our leaders doing the best they could. I guess it's because we knew we were getting deployed. Sure, there was the stupid ways they did things, but not something resembling a total breakdown.

As for your brother, how do you know he's the not the one screwing around with joining, or that he keeps crawfishing so much the recruiter is done? He could also have a record. I say leave his loser self alone and worry about your own life.

 

[Branhammer]

Is it really that bad now? I got out of the USMC in 2004 and my memories are of good training and our leaders doing the best they could. I guess it's because we knew we were getting deployed. Sure, there was the stupid ways they did things, but not something resembling a total breakdown.

As for your brother, how do you know he's the not the one screwing around with joining, or that he keeps crawfishing so much the recruiter is done? He could also have a record. I say leave his loser self alone and worry about your own life.

He doesn't have a record, but I can definitely see him dicking around and trying the recruiters patience. And I, for the most part, do just worry about me...well and my wife. That's why I live in UT and my family lives in KY.

 

[DGladhill]

I met Navy personnel when I was in Iraq that said being in the Navy doesn't mean you have to spend time on a ship. Those guys were in the middle of the desert for deployment. I've heard if you pick the right job you will never set foot on a ship. That could all be BS though. And yeah I don't think he'd make it in the Army and especially not the Marines. Truth be told, it might even be better for him to join the ANG or reserves. That could at least get him some experience to open some doors later on.

I don't know. It's just hard to watch your brother do nothing at that age.

As far as working with a different recruiter, he said he tried to call one in another town nearby and was told he can only go to the one that he lives near. As if they're a cable company or something...

That's not really true at all. I don't know of a single rate that doesn't step foot on a ship/boat off the top of my head. I would go Navy just from a familiarity standpoint, my dad did 20 years, my wife's dad is at the tail end of his 30 years and my wife did 4. My cousin was like your brother is, he seemed like he had no ambition and did nothing but play video games. He's a CT-R in the Navy and honestly says it's the best decision he's made. He's doing some work ups currently and is REALLY enjoying and excited about being deployed, oining completely changed his attitude. Great for a single guy, you get to see the world and make money doing it - why not?

 

[Katy TX5.0]

My friend was a sonar tech assigned to England and never set foot on a ship. Some white side corpsmen I've known also haven't.

 

[red13]

Get out there and do some research with your brother. Sounds like he might be choosing the same career as you simply because you already picked it. The military could change him to be better than who he is now. Or he could just turn into the voice commanded robot.

My point is do your best to plant the good stuff in his life. The rest is up to him. You cant change who he is. But you can be that influence he needs to want to be better.


The military is going through changes. Some good and a lot not so good.


To the new generation good luck. I had my challenges you now have yours. Keep the faith.



CJ

 

[Branhammer]

Get out there and do some research with your brother. Sounds like he might be choosing the same career as you simply because you already picked it. The military could change him to be better than who he is now. Or he could just turn into the voice commanded robot.

My point is do your best to plant the good stuff in his life. The rest is up to him. You cant change who he is. But you can be that influence he needs to want to be better.


The military is going through changes. Some good and a lot not so good.


To the new generation good luck. I had my challenges you now have yours. Keep the faith.



CJ

Yep, he knows that I enjoyed my time as an avionics tech for the most part, but I've told him that he probably would be happier doing something with computers. Being on the flight line can be VERY high-pressure. I'm not sure if he could handle it. It's one thing to work on cargo jets and tankers, it's quite a different thing when a PAVEHAWK in Afghanistan has rescue mission with a 15 minute window to save someone's life and you have a 2 minute window to fix a flight control issue so it can take off in time and there's no spare aircraft. Not sure he could handle that. Hell, even my current job as an analyst might be more up his ally, and becoming a master statistics, MS excel, and MS access aren't bad traits to have on the outside either.

 

[Ford1288]

My little brother is trying to join the military. I did four years active duty Air Force and I really liked it. I only got out and went Guard so I could settle down here in SLC with my wife. She has a Masters and a great job, so I wasn't about to make her follow an enlisted guy around. Now I have a great full-time job with the Utah ANG and have roots here. Joining was the best decision I've ever made. I'm trying to help my brother get his life on track by joining. That being said, I only have first hand knowledge of the AF, so that's the direction I've tried to push him. But maybe he should consider other branches as well. Here's a little about him.

He is one of those "late bloomers." That's best case scenario too, I think. He's 26, lives with our dad in El Paso, has very little stable work experience, and pretty much just plays video games all the time. I think he's had two jobs that he stayed with for more than a few months. He has no formal education. He's the type of kid that will not take initiative to get up and do something, but if you ask him to he immediately says "sure thing" and gets right up and does it. It's just that he needs to be told first.

I don't want to see him still living with our dad at age 30, still having done nothing with his life. The family coddles him and enables him to do nothing. I'm the only one who is straight up with him and calls him on his crap. He REALLY wants to join. He's been working with an Air Force recruiter down there for about a year. He was pretty overweight when he started talking to the recruiter. He was about 6'0" and 275 lbs. The recruiter told him that he needed to get down to 208 lbs. to get in. To my disbelief, he actually busted his ass and got down below his goal weight. He's been at the goal weight for three months now and the recruiter seems to be just giving him the run-around. Maybe he doesn't like his personality. Maybe he thinks he's lazy (he is). But I saw recruits worse than my brother turn their lives around in the Air Force. I want the same for him and he wants it.

I'd say there's a good chance he's one of those kids the military could make a man out of and he could finally start a career. But there's also a chance he won't make it through basic. There are some people you just don't know about until they try.

This AF recruiter for some reason is not on top of trying to get my brother in, so I'm wondering if he should think about talking to other branches. I will say that I know a lot of guys that have been army, and every single one of them is either out doing nothing now or crossed over to the AF. I don't know anyone in the Navy currently.

Anyone in the Army/Navy that can share your thoughts, opinions, and experiences with the branch you serve?

The Air Force can be extremely picky when it comes to candidates. They don't require many people and have high retention. Before I joined the Navy, I went to the AF recruiter and tried to get in through them. Even with a 4.0 gpa in high school and a 83 on the asvab, (test you take to see your intelligence and a couple other things, facilitated by the military) they still didn't want me. Air Force recruiters have a very low quota, so if they have already met their quota they won't give you the time of day. I would try to reach out to a different recruiter, or go Navy.

 

[Branhammer]

The Air Force can be extremely picky when it comes to candidates. They don't require many people and have high retention. Before I joined the Navy, I went to the AF recruiter and tried to get in through them. Even with a 4.0 gpa in high school and a 83 on the asvab, (test you take to see your intelligence and a couple other things, facilitated by the military) they still didn't want me. Air Force recruiters have a very low quota, so if they have already met their quota they won't give you the time of day. I would try to reach out to a different recruiter, or go Navy.

You're not kidding. When I joined the AF, I started out talking to an officer recruiter. Even with 8 years working experience, good AFOQT scores (forgot what exactly), ASVAB of 88, and a Bachelor's degree, I was told I wasn't a strong enough candidate for OTS. I was referred to the enlisted recruiter who got me in at E-3 pretty painlessly, but I still had to settle for the 3rd AFSC on my list unless I wanted to wait 2 years to get one of the top 2. My brother doesn't have anywhere near the resume I had, so I'm not shocked that he's having trouble. He recently moved back to KY and is going to try another recruiter.

He's going to be 27 soon and has basically nothing of value on his resume. When I was 27, I was an E-4 (because I entered basic training at 25) with 2 college degrees. I can't imagine being 27 and having nothing of value on my resume. Hell, he doesn't even HAVE a real resume.

 

[kenny nunez]

Military time

In 65 after passing the draft and being told I was 1a I went to talk to the Air Force. Since I had a Trade School Diploma in Auto Mechanics and worked at my dads shop he was not interested. Went across the hall to the Navy. Took the test and the recruiter set me up to start as E3 from basic. They designated me an Enginman striker.
The one thing that was told me is "Learn your rate and do your job". I made E5 in 2 years.
But even in those days there never was enough good senior enlistment and officers to go around, we had to put up with a lot of lifer place holders who drove the a lot of us away.
U.S.S. Iwo Jima LPH2. 3 years
U.S.S. Sedgwick County LST 1123 9 months Mekonng Delta Riverine support.

 

[RDJ]

Reminds me of when I TRIED to go in in 72. end of Vietnam and no waivers given for anything since the draft was still going. My draft number was like 289 or something like that ... no chance was I getting drafted so I took the ASVAB my Sr year of HS and got a 98 on it. I had all those jokers talking to me I wanted AF since we have a family history there. it was great .. till they asked how bad my eyes were and how flat my feet were ... then it was thanks but no thanks LOL. Navy was my 2nd choice.

OP - there is little question that you brother could benefit from the Military, I have two nephews that were much like him. One wen AF and is still going great guns. he just needed the structure provided and he took off. his resume stank, and he had a GED. My other nephew graduated top of his USMC boot camp class. two weeks after graduating he got wrapped up at a cocaine party. good thing his CO liked him because he got booted on an OTH rather than the Dishonorable he deserved.

In 65 after passing the draft and being told I was 1a I went to talk to the Air Force. Since I had a Trade School Diploma in Auto Mechanics and worked at my dads shop he was not interested. Went across the hall to the Navy. Took the test and the recruiter set me up to start as E3 from basic. They designated me an Enginman striker.
The one thing that was told me is "Learn your rate and do your job". I made E5 in 2 years.
But even in those days there never was enough good senior enlistment and officers to go around, we had to put up with a lot of lifer place holders who drove the a lot of us away.
U.S.S. Iwo Jima LPH2. 3 years
U.S.S. Sedgwick County LST 1123 9 months Mekonng Delta Riverine support.

As far as the pussification of the military I think it is a problem and will get worse. I spent 8 years in Iraq and working on my 3rd here in Afghanistan I have seen the difference in the Soldiers over that time. some of it is not pretty.

 

[Branhammer]

Reminds me of when I TRIED to go in in 72. end of Vietnam and no waivers given for anything since the draft was still going. My draft number was like 289 or something like that ... no chance was I getting drafted so I took the ASVAB my Sr year of HS and got a 98 on it. I had all those jokers talking to me I wanted AF since we have a family history there. it was great .. till they asked how bad my eyes were and how flat my feet were ... then it was thanks but no thanks LOL. Navy was my 2nd choice.

OP - there is little question that you brother could benefit from the Military, I have two nephews that were much like him. One wen AF and is still going great guns. he just needed the structure provided and he took off. his resume stank, and he had a GED. My other nephew graduated top of his USMC boot camp class. two weeks after graduating he got wrapped up at a cocaine party. good thing his CO liked him because he got booted on an OTH rather than the Dishonorable he deserved.



As far as the pussification of the military I think it is a problem and will get worse. I spent 8 years in Iraq and working on my 3rd here in Afghanistan I have seen the difference in the Soldiers over that time. some of it is not pretty.

Agreed. I truly believe the Military is the only way to get my brother on the right track. He's a millennial and lives up to the stereotype of entitlement that comes with being in that generation. He needs someone to slap the ****** out of him and make him realize that nobody owes you shit in life. He recently moved back to KY to help our mother care for our sick grandmother and is in talks with a recruiter there. Apparently it is going much better than it was with the recruiter in El Paso.

I agree that the military is getting "pussified." They are being forced to be too politically correct and sensitive, which starts at the very beginning in BMT. MTI's can't even use profanity at all anymore (although when I went through, they still did, just much more quietly). One newer MTI slipped up, got caught up in the moment, and called one of the trainees in my flight a "queer." I'm pretty sure one of the other trainees ratted him out, because we didn't see him for weeks after that. He was supposed to be with us learning the craft for our entire time there. In my opinion, if words offend you that much, the military isn't for you.

One thing I know about my brother is that he is not offended by anything. The things we say to each other could be misconstrued as pure hatred for each other by someone who doesn't know us. We talk to each other the way Richie Incognito talks to Jonathan Martin. So at least I know he'll be able to handle some verbal abuse and keep moving forward.

 

[nofire]

Man, if the AF recruiter keeps screwing with him and won't get him a ship date then just have him walk into the Marine recruiters' office. If he has a decent ASVAB and is willing they'll get him in there as soon as possible.

 

[GT500EA]

I am an Army Active Duty Soldier that is stationed here at Fort Bliss in El Paso....been in for 13 years going on 14, and I was unfortunately an Army Recruiter for 3 years. I can honestly tell you that recruiters, especially AF and Marines have a plentiful amount of people that are trying to enlist, so much that they back pocket people for the following months to insure that they can make their quota every month....and yes, all recruiters, no matter what branch, have quotas. Have you ever noticed that AF recruiting stations are closed a lot and Army stations are always open....that's because the AF recruiters already have their quota at the first of the month, compared to where the Army recruiters are out there trying to fill their quotas for the month. I guess the main point I'm trying to get to is that, the AF recruiters are not going to go to any extra lengths to put someone in when they have a long line of fully capable and eligible recruits nipping at their heels to get in. What I think is going on is one of the following, 1. The recruiter has him in his back pocket for a later month. ; 2. Your brother is slow about doing the things the recruiter needs him to do to process him. ; or 3. Your brother may meet body fat standards, but he does not meet "table weight", therefore he is not on the priority list, the AF "NOW" want people that meet the desired requirements, which is passing table weight...not failing table weight and then passing body fat standards. I honestly believe that number 3 is what's going on...they want first time go's, not BOLO's that passed on the retry. I had this same problem with my fiance's brother when I was trying to get him to join the AF, he was overweight; they told him to lose X amount of pounds; he did just that and plus some; AF recruiters BS'd him for about 2 months; I could not ever get ahold of this recruiter; and then he joined the Army behind my back...I was kind of aggravated because I wanted him to get in the AF, but he made his own decision, so I'm happy for him. He enlisted last month, and ships next month. If you want any help or advice, message me and I can send you my number.