Brembo upgrade or Rotors pads and ss brake lines on base calipers

[sami9382]

What's up everybody. I need y'all's input on my brake overhaul I'm planning in the coming months...Which setup would be more effective in price and performance? As much as I'd like to have brembos, Id rather not spend $800 -$1000 on a 4 piston setup alone... So would upgrading to good set of rotors pads and brake lines give me performance and feel of a 4p setup? I have never driven a car with brembos so would like the help of you guys who have experienced both stock, brembos, and upgraded stock brakes. I appreciate your input and looking forward with what is to be said.

Thanks!


P.s. My car is a 2011 gt that I do take auto crossing monthly. It'll also be seeing some track time at Road Atlanta this summer so a decent set of brakes is necessary.

 

[dirtyd88]

A good set of slotted rotors and pads would definitely be a big plus, but you are still on the stock 2 piston calipers, which may cause some brake issues on a road course, not so much autox though.

 

[Jbstang87]

I am in the same boat. I have the stock 2p brakes. I've done ss lines, hps pads, and dot 4 fluid. I recently went to a HPDE event last weekend and my brakes held up well over 20 minute sessions, however on one session on the very last lap I experienced some fade during 80 degree heat. So depending on your skill, your braking behavior, and your tires, doing these basic brake upgrades will be more than enough. If you want to really have some insurance, add brake cooling ducts (around 300) and you should be fine until you reach a higher level. Then you can probably upgrade to the 4p brembos.
Don't do the 6p shelby brembos. They're noisy, heavy, and don't clear alot of wheels. If you can really drive and need an upgrade, I'd look into something else aftermarket.

Just trying to save you some $$. I am by no measure a track expert, but I do get tips from some of the hardcore racers.

 

[Voltwings]

Upgraded calipers are not needed on anything but extreme setups. I dont think people realize (most) large calipers with multi pistons do not actually cause more braking force, they just typically reduce fade and aid predictability. Heres a very good thread / article i stumbled upon not to long ago, some very useful knowledge to be had here.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f12/monoblock-vs-2-piece-brake-calipers-167834/

The key excerpt being something along the lines of: If you currently dont have enough stopping force, you likely need more tire and not more brake.

 

[sami9382]

Thank you all for the advise. I am now 80% sure im gonna stick with my stock calipers. But do you guys have a rotor and pad setup you can recommend? Iv heard that hawk hp plus is the standard for autox and light tracking. But i havnt found reviews for any slotted rotors. And how much of an improvement can ss lines make to the stock calipers?

 

[dirtyd88]

stainless lines will help with line expansion and should keep the brake pedal to maintain a nice solid feel to it under heavy breaking force.

contact hypermotive performance and see what Jason suggest.

 

[sami9382]

So i shouldnt expect a firmer pedal under daily use and moderate braking? Because i cant stand the mushy pedal feel i have right now

 

[hand-filer]

SS brake lines will do more to improve braking than slotted rotors will. Slotted rotors are mostly for looks. Whatever minimal cooling effect they provide is mitigated by the loss in surface area.

 

[sami9382]

I thought the slots were more of a channel for brake dust to go through instead of staying between the pad and rotor surfaces.

 

[Voltwings]

I thought the slots were more of a channel for brake dust to go through instead of staying between the pad and rotor surfaces.

This. its not really for cooling, Drilling is more for cooling, but they are extremely prone to cracking in situations where hard braking is actually needed.

 

[dirtyd88]

I thought the slots were more of a channel for brake dust to go through instead of staying between the pad and rotor surfaces.

Same here. I though slots were for excavating any dust and gas that is created

 

[hand-filer]

You're both wrong. Slots and or holes are there to aid in cooling and to vent gas under hard braking. FA to do with channeling brake dust.

 

[dirtyd88]

Why do slotted rotors come standard on so many high performance cars then? Why does the P1 need slotted rotors?

 

[sami9382]

Dirtyd- many sources do confirm that we are both right. But i thinks its just best to ignore the ignorant. As for brakes, is it possible to have the brakes activate from the top of the pedal with a consistent firmfeel like the 335i and m3 does? Or is that just wishful thinking for 2piston brakes

 

[Voltwings]

Dirtyd- many sources do confirm that we are both right. But i thinks its just best to ignore the ignorant. As for brakes, is it possible to have the brakes activate from the top of the pedal with a consistent firmfeel like the 335i and m3 does? Or is that just wishful thinking for 2piston brakes

It doesnt really have much to do with the calipers (or number of pistons) at that point, but the hydraulic system as a whole. My Ms3 had just a massive single piston, but they engaged like you mentioned, right at the top of the pedal. I have only been on this platform for a few months, where i was on the ms3 for years, so im still learning as well. I imagine if the stock rubber lines flex as much as was mentioned, thats whats giving the "spongey" brake feel and lower pedal engagement. Stainless lines would certainly help in firming that up.

 

[Voltwings]

Why do slotted rotors come standard on so many high performance cars then? Why does the P1 need slotted rotors?

Not sure if you were talking to me, but i meant drilled is prone to cracking. As for why Some high end cars come with Drilled rotors, even Ferrari and Porsche themselves will admit its for one reason: It looks cool. lol. Heres another link for yall, as well as an excerpt:


http://www.xtremeimportperformance.com/tech-page/cross-drilled-rotors-myth

Cross-drilling = less mass, = less capacity to absorb heat before this point is reached. when you're running close to the edge of the thermal capacity, the brake system will be consistently a little hotter because it's easier to push the system with less mass and thermal capacity over the edge.

There's also the problem that cross-drilling causes stress risers on the rotors. coupled with the thermal expansion that occurs during braking and repeated hard use, the holes make it much easier to develop deep stress cracks in the rotors. There's a reason NO race team that uses iron rotors has cross-drilled rotors. They use either plain or slotted rotors. The cross-drilling simply reduces the thermal capacity AND weakens the rotor courting the possibility of failure from stress cracks actually leading to a fragged rotor.

Now, there will inevitably arise the question of, "Well Brembo is one of the biggest brake companies around and they drill their rotors. if anyone would know about the effectiveness, they should. on top of that, all the Supercar companies like Porsche, Ferrari etc, have crossdrilled rotors. They build their names on performance. They would know what's effective and what's not". yes, they would. They know what affects their sales.

The reason big companies still produce crossdrilled rotors and have them on their cars is because most people are clueless sheep. Most folks don't know why rotors were originally cross drilled. They don't know why race teams won't use them. All they know is that from way back in the day, a true sportscar always had crossdrilled rotors (back in the day when brake pads sucked).

You want to know why 'sportscar' companies still put drilled rotors on their cars? An insider who was actually involved in the actual testing of the brake rotors fessed up about it. They conducted tests with plain and drilled rotors and concluded and confirmed that the plain rotors had no downsides and in fact were better in hard braking than the crossdrilled rotors AND would save the company a little money not having the crossdrilled option. And when they put them on cars, customers commented that, "For a performance car, they should have at least gone through the trouble/expense of putting on high performance crossdrilled brakes". They realized that this is the general public perception, so even though they had concluded that the plain rotors wree better, they put crossdrilled rotors back on the cars. If that's what the public thinks and wants, that's what a good business provides.

 

[sami9382]

Voltwing- i believe dirtyd was strictly refering to the use of slotted, not cross drilled rotors. Can we all agree that drilled rotors are pointless, slotted rotors help a bit and plain rotors can sometimes be ideal?

 

[Voltwings]

Voltwing- i believe dirtyd was strictly refering to the use of slotted, not cross drilled rotors. Can we all agree that drilled rotors are pointless, slotted rotors help a bit and plain rotors can sometimes be ideal?

Ahh, yes, and I dont mean to come across as a know it all. I work as an independant consultant, so theres not always work to be done, and i get to spend a LOT of time on the internet reading lol... i've got a massive archive of links just laying around.

 

[CSG]

Anyone ever seen the data on how much expansion there really is on the rubber hoses? Not anywhere near what the aftermarket leads you to believe.

 

[Voltwings]

Anyone ever seen the data on how much expansion there really is on the rubber hoses? Not anywhere near what the aftermarket leads you to believe.

Have not actually ........ got any links? lol