Big 3 Wire Uograde

[Steve23]

Hello all, I plan on doing the wire upgrqde on my car. I will be making my own custom and use 1/0 gauge wire size. Can anyone recomend the approximate wire length needed of each wire needed to be replaced? Just so I can get a rough estimate of the length of wire I need to buy?

I will be doing:
- Battery to Alt wire
- Battery to Fuse box
- Battery Ground
- Adding my own additional grounds and creating what's known as a "grounding kit"

Why the extra grounds? Some cars can benefit from these, I believe the 03/04 Cobras may be a good candidate.

My friend had a 06 Mazda 6 and gained 4whp and 2whp from an additional 4 grounds. I've also learned Subarus benefit from about 5-10whp with just additional grounds added due to the factories poor grounds from the factory. So, im going to test this theory on the Cobra. I will be doing a base dyno run before and base dyno run after. 3 pulls each, to see how much, if any these cars can gain from a simple big 3 upgrade with a grounding kit added. This will be for my ease of mind as well as fellow owners the benefits of the big 3 and a grounding kit. Thanks for the help, Steve.

Sent from my [device_name] using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[zredfire04]

is there an explanation somewhere of how you get more HP by reconfiguring the grounds?

 

[Steve23]

is there an explanation somewhere of how you get more HP by reconfiguring the grounds?

Some vehicles don't have the proper grounding from the factory, or in our cars case inappropriate grounding and power cables. The entire cars electrical systems depend on properly gauged wire. If the power wire is too small, it will not supply the correct ppwer to the entire cars systems, including plugs, coils, fuel pumps and even PCMs.

With improperly gauged power wires comes a few things. Increased demand from alternator because of the bottle neck from the power. From this as well you can have a smaller power output to the PCM, not enough adequate voltage output to the coils and plugs. This less voltage output can cause improperly burned fuel, because the spark is not strong enough as to what it should be. Which would be caused by the power wires bottle neck created from the factory with smaller gauging used.

Furthermore adding to this, increased voltage supply causes an increase in heat. Especially the electrical components. Electrical components can fail with too much heat (hense computers and other electrical systems require fans for cooling). From this heat, it can cause increased voltage needs, decreased power output or even burnout. This loss of power output can be spread to electrical systems, fuel, coil systems, spark and even signal output from the PCMs and other car modules.

Now, with an improperly sized ground wire can back up power and cause electrical component burnout or even loss of power. If you have the appropriate gauge power wires, but not enough grounds this causes heat. The power does not have proper flow back to the battery. With this backup, the power isn't flowing properly and thus, more voltage loss. Or the dreaded increased heating and possible burning out of electrical parts, or increased load on electrical components. When there's a blockage, it sucks more power, causing more heat.

The entire cars electrical system depends on voltage. With proper power and grounding wires you can see:

- Better spark voltage means a better combustion which nets better fuel economy and more power
- A decrease of load on the Alternator which equals to less demand of voltage, less heat and adequate voltage accross the board and better charging characteristics
- Entire electrical system efficiency increases
- The whole car requires voltage, which means everything runs better, more efficient and less electrical systems heat output

- My friends 4 cyl Mazda 6 saw 4wtq and 2whp
- 370z see as high as 8whp/8wtq
- Subaru STI's have seen 5-10whp increase

There's plenty more cars that can benefit. However I have never seen anyone test our cars. So here I am, experimenting. Generally speaking adding a couple grounds from key points on the block to the frame and an additional ground from the block to the battery increase the voltage flow characteristic, which is how these benefits could possibly be seen. This could be a pointless endeavour on our car, or I could see a few horse power. 1 thing is for sure, we all know the Cobra needs a big 3 kit, so I can deduce from that information, that an additional grounding kit may be beneficial to our kits.

Thats why I am here trying to get people's input. As well as the approximate lengths of wire used for the big 3, so I can gauge the length I need to buy.

Sent from my [device_name] using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[Bdubbs]

I did my own measurements and then made my own.

Sent from my [device_name] using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[Steve23]

I did my own measurements and then made my own.

Sent from my [device_name] using the svtperformance.com mobile app

Happen to remember the measurements or length you bought? My car is in storage for another month. I'd like to get a head start on this. Order my wire, ring wire connectors and such. I've got an idea of what I'll need for the grounding kit, just not for the 3 primary wire upgrades.

Sent from my [device_name] using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[Bdubbs]

Happen to remember the measurements or length you bought? My car is in storage for another month. I'd like to get a head start on this. Order my wire, ring wire connectors and such. I've got an idea of what I'll need for the grounding kit, just not for the 3 primary wire upgrades.

Sent from my [device_name] using the svtperformance.com mobile app

Not off the top of my head. I ended up using 2 awg.

Sent from my [device_name] using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[SVT_Troy]

Buy 20’ and save the spare. It doesn’t go to waste. I went with 1/0AWG welding cable. I used this for a trunk mount. No slow starting or anything weird with my setup.


Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com

 

[zredfire04]

Some vehicles don't have the proper grounding from the factory, or in our cars case inappropriate grounding and power cables. The entire cars electrical systems depend on properly gauged wire. If the power wire is too small, it will not supply the correct ppwer to the entire cars systems, including plugs, coils, fuel pumps and even PCMs.

With improperly gauged power wires comes a few things. Increased demand from alternator because of the bottle neck from the power. From this as well you can have a smaller power output to the PCM, not enough adequate voltage output to the coils and plugs. This less voltage output can cause improperly burned fuel, because the spark is not strong enough as to what it should be. Which would be caused by the power wires bottle neck created from the factory with smaller gauging used.

Furthermore adding to this, increased voltage supply causes an increase in heat. Especially the electrical components. Electrical components can fail with too much heat (hense computers and other electrical systems require fans for cooling). From this heat, it can cause increased voltage needs, decreased power output or even burnout. This loss of power output can be spread to electrical systems, fuel, coil systems, spark and even signal output from the PCMs and other car modules.

Now, with an improperly sized ground wire can back up power and cause electrical component burnout or even loss of power. If you have the appropriate gauge power wires, but not enough grounds this causes heat. The power does not have proper flow back to the battery. With this backup, the power isn't flowing properly and thus, more voltage loss. Or the dreaded increased heating and possible burning out of electrical parts, or increased load on electrical components. When there's a blockage, it sucks more power, causing more heat.

The entire cars electrical system depends on voltage. With proper power and grounding wires you can see:

- Better spark voltage means a better combustion which nets better fuel economy and more power
- A decrease of load on the Alternator which equals to less demand of voltage, less heat and adequate voltage accross the board and better charging characteristics
- Entire electrical system efficiency increases
- The whole car requires voltage, which means everything runs better, more efficient and less electrical systems heat output

- My friends 4 cyl Mazda 6 saw 4wtq and 2whp
- 370z see as high as 8whp/8wtq
- Subaru STI's have seen 5-10whp increase

There's plenty more cars that can benefit. However I have never seen anyone test our cars. So here I am, experimenting. Generally speaking adding a couple grounds from key points on the block to the frame and an additional ground from the block to the battery increase the voltage flow characteristic, which is how these benefits could possibly be seen. This could be a pointless endeavour on our car, or I could see a few horse power. 1 thing is for sure, we all know the Cobra needs a big 3 kit, so I can deduce from that information, that an additional grounding kit may be beneficial to our kits.

Thats why I am here trying to get people's input. As well as the approximate lengths of wire used for the big 3, so I can gauge the length I need to buy.

Sent from my [device_name] using the svtperformance.com mobile app

sounds like a good sales pitch at least.

should be easy to figure out whether there's a benefit to doing this...figure out the max current draw and compare that to the wire gauge that comes stock. if the stock wire is rated to handle more than the theoretical max, using bigger wire isn't going to make a difference.

i could see how improper grounding could cause noise in the stereo and possibly PCM wiring.

all the current from the alternator flows through a ring that's thinner than a dime...

 

[Steve23]

Buy 20’ and save the spare. It doesn’t go to waste. I went with 1/0AWG welding cable. I used this for a trunk mount. No slow starting or anything weird with my setup.


Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com

Same size I was going, double 0 AKA 1/0. I planned on using copper audio wire, thinner strands, designed for extreme heat heavy duty audio systems output.

sounds like a good sales pitch at least.

should be easy to figure out whether there's a benefit to doing this...figure out the max current draw and compare that to the wire gauge that comes stock. if the stock wire is rated to handle more than the theoretical max, using bigger wire isn't going to make a difference.

i could see how improper grounding could cause noise in the stereo and possibly PCM wiring.

all the current from the alternator flows through a ring that's thinner than a dime...

It's not really a sales pitch, I'm doing this because I can make a Big 3 kit myself, for cheaper (no offense to the aftermarket kits, I'm just a fan of DIY), to my own personal specs. Not a huge deal. I figured I'd add on a grounding kit to see if it improves anything. Worst case, extra grounds do nothing, best case, bonus couple of ponies. However, the fact there is Big 3 wiring kits available for our cars proves my point about gauge size, simultaneously. As the wiring kits available are infact larger gauged, as well as and including ground wire. If the wire sizing wasn't an issue, the Big 3 wire upgrade wouldn't be pushed nearly as much as it is. But unfortunately for us, the gauging used stock is an issue. Facts are facts, 370z, Subaru STI are notorious for needing grounding kits. Check out grounding kits, it's 50/50. Some don't believe, others swear by it because they have dyno results on their car. I'm neither here nor there if anyone believes, this is for personal curiosity.

Hypothetically, even if the power wire is gauged properly, doesn't mean the grounds are adequate. The frame isn't as good of a ground as 1 may think, or many actually realize. When you have only a couple of ground wires going to the battery, that does in fact have the ability to create a bottle neck. Especially when increasing horse power, requiring larger pumps, larger alternators, coils, ect. Those all draw more power, requiring larger alternator, but the factor limits of the cables would not be adequate as they are not spec'd for those ppssibilities. But, the real question is not whether me using larger gauge wire with thinner strands is a necessity for the Big 3. Thats already proven in the 03/04 Cobra market place. Especially when every1 recommends Justin's kit. It obviously is needed, when it's such a common and popular upgrade. The real question here is, would our cars benefit from a few additional grounds, not whether the big 3 is needed, because we already know it is needed, since the Big 3 upgrade is in fact larger gauged wires.

For me this post was mostly to get the length size for the vase big 3, cause my car is in storage until May 1st so I cannot get measurements yet. I'd also like to order my wiring and connectors now. But I also wanted to hear others input, thoughts and possibly any personal experience on this subject. Just to get some conversation going about this subject. Conversation breeds innovation. I will be doing 9 sets of dyno runs. 3 before, 3 with the big 3, 3 with the ground kit. I figured worse case is it'll be the same, best case I freed up a few ponies. Not much extra work when I'm buying it by the foot, so I may as well experiment. When it comes to electrical however, extra grounds are always good, really good.

I'd imagine projects like this are how we learned about the stock alternators and the faults in them. I believe an electrical engineer did his own testing on it and thats how some of the data was compiled about the stock alternator not being a true 130A unit, as well as the pulley being too small and over spinning it causing additional heat in the already over heated alternator sitting near to a manifold and below a blower. But for me, I'm more curious if our car would benefit from 1, knowing the faults with the stock power and ground wires, as well as the Alternator issues. While I understand the skepticism, there is pure fact in my statements. Only thing I'm theorizing is whether we will benefit from additional grounds. Since, we already know we benefit from upgrading to larger gauged Big 3 wires, over the smaller 4 gauged stock form.



Sent from my [device_name] using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[zredfire04]

TLDR;

the existence of a product does not prove a need, it merely proves that there is a company that is willing to make/sell a thing that consumers will buy.

i agree that worst case scenario, there's no improvement. as i said, if the plan were to reduce noise and ground loops, it would make sense to me. more HP? doesn't hold water to ME.

a little background on me: i design and build custom high gain tube guitar amplifiers as a hobby/extra money. i was also an electronics technician in the navy, and currently am an HVAC tech. i understand electricity better than most...which is why i'm skeptical that this is going to do anything for HP.

but hey...it's not my car, not my money, not my time. i'm looking forward to results.

 

[Steve23]

TLDR;

the existence of a product does not prove a need, it merely proves that there is a company that is willing to make/sell a thing that consumers will buy.

i agree that worst case scenario, there's no improvement. as i said, if the plan were to reduce noise and ground loops, it would make sense to me. more HP? doesn't hold water to ME.

a little background on me: i design and build custom high gain tube guitar amplifiers as a hobby/extra money. i was also an electronics technician in the navy, and currently am an HVAC tech. i understand electricity better than most...which is why i'm skeptical that this is going to do anything for HP.

but hey...it's not my car, not my money, not my time. i'm looking forward to results.

I always like reading peoples input, so it wasnt too long for me. But, I absolutely agree that the existence of said product doesn't prove neccessity. I work on car audio for a living, since I was 18. So we're on the same wave length, just different thought processes.

I am curious, I take it you didn't bother with the Big 3 upgrade then? Since you seem a bit against the need. Most seem to see improvements, primarily with alternator functions, respectively. If you didn't do it, have you had any alternator isues, burn out ect on yours? My Cobra just turned 20k miles, alternator died last year, could have been age of course. Upgraded to a 160A aftermarket unit. Which is another reason I'm doing the upgrade, for future upgrades.

I'll be curious to see what happens, if anything.

Sent from my [device_name] using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[zredfire04]

mine has 97k. i bought it a year ago and i don't know if the alternator has been replaced by previous owners.

i haven't heard of big 3 until this. i'm generally of the opinion that ford's engineers know how to properly size wire...

an example of products that are available that do nothing...there is a company that sells a $100 power cord for guitar amps with gold plated terminals and some kind of super high dollar wire. it's supposed to provide cleaner power to the amp. how fancy wire and terminals improves power that's been transmitted along plain aluminum and copper conductors is beyond me. but they sell, and they are marketed as an "upgrade".

 

[*Jay*]

Your best bet is to take off the stock power harness/battery ground, lay them out and cut new cables to length. I did this with SVT_Troy years ago in a couple of hours. I am pretty sure my car had a trunk battery at one point and while my car ran fine it definitely had a chopped up harness so I had no choice but to replace/make my own with 1/0. In addition to what you listed I also ran a + wire to the starter since that was part of the power harness. Started easier and bumped my volts up at idle and while driving.

I thought I had found/fixed all my issues but after burning up a second motorcraft alternator and installing a mechman I found 2 more chassis or block ground lines missing or cut.

Make sure you locate and follow your ground lines and straps from one end to another and verify they are corrosion free and bolted on tight. I had lines cut, tucked and hidden from view. I added a replacement 1/0 frame to block ground and a 1/0 line directly from the alternator mount to the negative battery terminal as per mechmans install recomendations.

I cant confirm it but I am willing to bet my alternators failing were due in part to the weak grounds I had on my Cobra. If you are still running an OEM alt there is a nice threaded hole on the backside of the case to run a ground from.

 

[Steve23]

Your best bet is to take off the stock power harness/battery ground, lay them out and cut new cables to length. I did this with SVT_Troy years ago in a couple of hours. I am pretty sure my car had a trunk battery at one point and while my car ran fine it definitely had a chopped up harness so I had no choice but to replace/make my own with 1/0. In addition to what you listed I also ran a + wire to the starter since that was part of the power harness. Started easier and bumped my volts up at idle and while driving.

I thought I had found/fixed all my issues but after burning up a second motorcraft alternator and installing a mechman I found 2 more chassis or block ground lines missing or cut.

Make sure you locate and follow your ground lines and straps from one end to another and verify they are corrosion free and bolted on tight. I had lines cut, tucked and hidden from view. I added a replacement 1/0 frame to block ground and a 1/0 line directly from the alternator mount to the negative battery terminal as per mechmans install recomendations.

I cant confirm it but I am willing to bet my alternators failing were due in part to the weak grounds I had on my Cobra. If you are still running an OEM alt there is a nice threaded hole on the backside of the case to run a ground from.

That was my plan, but I was hoping to get a head start and buy my materials now. My car is stored until May 1st, and I don't have easy access until that day. But, no buggy.

I was thinking of doing the starter wire too. Since you seemed to have good results, I will likely do the same, as my mind was leading to that as well, already.

I agree, that the inadequate gauge is quite possibly 1 of the reasons of our cars alternators failing so commonly and frequently. But, we shall see. Thank your shared knowledge and experience.

mine has 97k. i bought it a year ago and i don't know if the alternator has been replaced by previous owners.

i haven't heard of big 3 until this. i'm generally of the opinion that ford's engineers know how to properly size wire...

an example of products that are available that do nothing...there is a company that sells a $100 power cord for guitar amps with gold plated terminals and some kind of super high dollar wire. it's supposed to provide cleaner power to the amp. how fancy wire and terminals improves power that's been transmitted along plain aluminum and copper conductors is beyond me. but they sell, and they are marketed as an "upgrade".

Check out some info and articles on this site and through Google on the Big 3. I think you'll find some cool articles that may fascinate you.

While I understand that you believe that the factory engineers know how to properly size wire. I would have to say that it's quite possible and quite often where engineers can over look systems on a vehicle. To point out a possible issue, our wiring is the same as a 99/01 Cobra's. Those vehicles had 100 less horse power, no blower, no twin fuel pumps, ect to power. I'd also like to mention, given the high failure of our alternators, thats already evident Ford overlooked. At least, 1 thing on our cars, well, at least in my eyes. But, you may disagree with me and have some valid points I haven't thought of. BTW, if the engineers did everything perfect from the getgo, I believe there would be no after market value. Food for thought, our alternator is nothing more than a V6 alternator, pretty big over sight, imo. I don't know how much history of our car you're aware of, but to me it would be, so very easy for the engineers to have overlooked our cars electrical systems. Especially given that there were so many other things happening at that particular time for a vehicle of this magnitude to be made, within such a short period of time. A good example is our alternators high failure rate, the aftermarket following that came out to fix it. The head cooling mods, that are pretty much openly accepted, as a basic necessity for higher powered applications, if not suggested for even stock trim vehicles, as well. Also, our cars are susceptibility to the head tick, due to, IIRC (I think, can't remember off the top of my head) bronze valve guides in our heads, being prone to wear (Someone correct this if needed)??? But my point is that, I have to disagree with you in thinking that the engineers always know best and at least how interpret your point, that all systems are adequate off the line. I disagree, there's numerous examples on our car alone demonstrating Ford's over sights. I personally believe our wiring and alternator is on that list. I have to respectfully disagree, sir.

I understand your analogy, and I do agree. Some times things are marketed as being superior, but use some cheap materials mixed in with higher dollar materials. Which in turn give the allusion of its "superior quality". But I'd like to point out, copper and gold are used in unison quite often because of their conductive and corrosion resistant values. Silver being 1 of the best conductors is not as easily available, ($$$), as copper. Copper is used because it conducts better than most other metals, including aluminum, but the gold plating is used because the copper's corrosion resistance isn't as good as gold's, is. As such, copper wiring or eyelet connectors, tend to get gold plated to maintain conductivity while increasing corrosion/tarnish resistance. I would personally never use a wire that has aluminum because that's the company skimping out, I whole heartedly agree with you. Aluminum's high perpensity for corrosion, makes it highly suspetable to the elements. But the gold plating is common practice because it maintains conductivity while increasing the corrosion resistance, which in car audio is extremely important due to the vehicles tendency to be outside in environments and the possible exposure to weather elements.

Sent from my [device_name] using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[01yellercobra]

The 99/01 Cobras also have 130amp alternators and it's mounted up top. So it gets lots of cooling and it's not taxed like the 03/04 80amp alternators.