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SVTPerformance's Chain of Restaurants
Road Side Pub
Better all around AK for range time: AK47 or AK74
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<blockquote data-quote="Jebadias" data-source="post: 13728527" data-attributes="member: 87819"><p>:lol:This seems to happen often</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Interesting. So having shot both, which AK did you shoot? Was it a quality rifle or some used up parts kit put on a crap reciever by trained monkeys? I own both and my Saiga is as good as my Bushmaster at 100 yards, meaning that i can hit target clays set up (not flying) if I do my part.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>WTF! Are you for real? </p><p></p><p>Many of the comparisons made here would be laughed off of this site if they were about cars. I think it is funny how performance improvements from car parts can be dismissed here because the results shown are not on the same car, same dyno or even just because they are not done on the same day but, since we are now talking firearms people will argue for thier favorite platform because they happened to shoot one better once. The following is for the two or three people here who may actually have an open mind.</p><p></p><p>I think AKs get a bad rap for several reasons. </p><p></p><p>First off is that we still suffer from the fallout of the cold war. In that era we, as a society, were scared to death of the commies even if we won't admit it. We counted on quality to beat out quantity in the event of a war and always tried to one up the Soviets in weapons. The AR platform had it's merits pushed as hard as the AK's faults on our troops in order to try and build up their confidence in the weapon. This was a good thing from a morale point of view especially in light of the very bad publicity that the AR had after it's adoption. An unfortunate side effect was a myth of significant superiority of the AR platform, which is not the case.</p><p></p><p>This perception was compounded by the superior training of western troops over vietcong guerrillas and the wars in Iraq and Afganistan have only added to it. I don't care what modern rifles you put in people's hands, Highly trained Marines who regularly practice at 500 meters are going to shoot better than kids handed a rifle and some ammo and told to go fight, especially with all of the extra advantages they enjoy.</p><p></p><p>Many cheap AKs are parts kits. The rifles are built in countries that do not have great quality manufacturing (my SAR2 had tool marks and the serial number had been hand engraved) and the parts are imported. They are assembled in the US with just enough US made parts to make them legal. Individual profits on these rifles are low. The money is in quantity. Quality of assembly often takes a back seat in these rifles. These rifles are not bad, they just need a little TLC. They typically shoot reliably, just not match grade accurate. The finish is often poor and to save money the markings may look like crap. Given the natural tendancy to want to feel the AK is inferior, and given the safety's truely bad ergonomics compared to an AR I can understand why some people lump all AKs into this catergory.</p><p></p><p>A big part of the appeal of the AK is cheap ammo. Surplus ammo is not made with accuracy in mind. Believe it or not ARs and AKs are not sniper rifles and hitting a plate at 200 yards is more than acceptable accuracy for what the rifles were intended for. 7.62 is not as accurate as .223/5.56 at longer ranges, especially when you compare old military surplus 7.62 to modern civilian .223. Most people who bash AKs don't even realize that the 5.45 exists, let alone how greatly improved it is in accuracy (even in mil surp) or that it has been issued for almost 40 years and is only 'new' to the US. When making comparisons ammo is as important for performance as octane is for cars. At least use mil surp in both or modern quality ammo in both. Most people making these comparisons use 40 year old Polish AK ammo and new off the shelf ammo for the AR.</p><p></p><p>Finally you have to compare apples to apples. The Russian rifles are excellent in terms of manufacturing and assemble quality (there are other good rifle out there as well). They are not cheap knockoffs. Nobody would take a match grade AR with high quality ammo that the rifle is known to shoot well and seriously compete against it with a high round count low end build from one of the 'poorer' AR manufactures. So why do AR fanboys always insist on doing it with AKs? I think all three rifles (AR15, AKM and AK47) are just fine for what the OP originally asked. Of course what do I know, I only own BOTH platforms and have carried the M16 professionally for 20 years. Go find quality versions of both and shoot them, with decent ammunition, and decide for yourself which you like better. If you live in SE Michigan and want to try them send me a PM.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jebadias, post: 13728527, member: 87819"] :lol:This seems to happen often Interesting. So having shot both, which AK did you shoot? Was it a quality rifle or some used up parts kit put on a crap reciever by trained monkeys? I own both and my Saiga is as good as my Bushmaster at 100 yards, meaning that i can hit target clays set up (not flying) if I do my part. WTF! Are you for real? Many of the comparisons made here would be laughed off of this site if they were about cars. I think it is funny how performance improvements from car parts can be dismissed here because the results shown are not on the same car, same dyno or even just because they are not done on the same day but, since we are now talking firearms people will argue for thier favorite platform because they happened to shoot one better once. The following is for the two or three people here who may actually have an open mind. I think AKs get a bad rap for several reasons. First off is that we still suffer from the fallout of the cold war. In that era we, as a society, were scared to death of the commies even if we won't admit it. We counted on quality to beat out quantity in the event of a war and always tried to one up the Soviets in weapons. The AR platform had it's merits pushed as hard as the AK's faults on our troops in order to try and build up their confidence in the weapon. This was a good thing from a morale point of view especially in light of the very bad publicity that the AR had after it's adoption. An unfortunate side effect was a myth of significant superiority of the AR platform, which is not the case. This perception was compounded by the superior training of western troops over vietcong guerrillas and the wars in Iraq and Afganistan have only added to it. I don't care what modern rifles you put in people's hands, Highly trained Marines who regularly practice at 500 meters are going to shoot better than kids handed a rifle and some ammo and told to go fight, especially with all of the extra advantages they enjoy. Many cheap AKs are parts kits. The rifles are built in countries that do not have great quality manufacturing (my SAR2 had tool marks and the serial number had been hand engraved) and the parts are imported. They are assembled in the US with just enough US made parts to make them legal. Individual profits on these rifles are low. The money is in quantity. Quality of assembly often takes a back seat in these rifles. These rifles are not bad, they just need a little TLC. They typically shoot reliably, just not match grade accurate. The finish is often poor and to save money the markings may look like crap. Given the natural tendancy to want to feel the AK is inferior, and given the safety's truely bad ergonomics compared to an AR I can understand why some people lump all AKs into this catergory. A big part of the appeal of the AK is cheap ammo. Surplus ammo is not made with accuracy in mind. Believe it or not ARs and AKs are not sniper rifles and hitting a plate at 200 yards is more than acceptable accuracy for what the rifles were intended for. 7.62 is not as accurate as .223/5.56 at longer ranges, especially when you compare old military surplus 7.62 to modern civilian .223. Most people who bash AKs don't even realize that the 5.45 exists, let alone how greatly improved it is in accuracy (even in mil surp) or that it has been issued for almost 40 years and is only 'new' to the US. When making comparisons ammo is as important for performance as octane is for cars. At least use mil surp in both or modern quality ammo in both. Most people making these comparisons use 40 year old Polish AK ammo and new off the shelf ammo for the AR. Finally you have to compare apples to apples. The Russian rifles are excellent in terms of manufacturing and assemble quality (there are other good rifle out there as well). They are not cheap knockoffs. Nobody would take a match grade AR with high quality ammo that the rifle is known to shoot well and seriously compete against it with a high round count low end build from one of the 'poorer' AR manufactures. So why do AR fanboys always insist on doing it with AKs? I think all three rifles (AR15, AKM and AK47) are just fine for what the OP originally asked. Of course what do I know, I only own BOTH platforms and have carried the M16 professionally for 20 years. Go find quality versions of both and shoot them, with decent ammunition, and decide for yourself which you like better. If you live in SE Michigan and want to try them send me a PM. [/QUOTE]
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Better all around AK for range time: AK47 or AK74
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