Barrett Jackson Backlash

mrmustang

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We've all been discussing this for several years, but looks like some of the possible shenanigans are finally hitting the press. This article was originally posted just the other day on http://fourwheeldrift.wordpress.com/2007/01/, but mysteriously is no longer there:


Barrett-Jackson’s Westworld Tent Turns Out to be a House of Cards
January 27th, 2007 by fourwheeldrift

As a collector car journalist, I have been watching the Barrett-Jackson auction for years. For the last five or so years, it has been very apparent that the Scottsdale auction is at best a bastion of gross consumption…but now some hobbyists are claiming a worst: fraud.

I’ve discussed B-J with collectors, dealers and enthusiasts, many of whom would be considered “insiders,” meaning they’ve bought and sold cars at B-J and other auctions, or are well-known in the collector car hobby. For some reason, it is this year that people are all finally grumbling and passing rumors in unison.

The bottom line is that Craig Jackson and the B-J company seem to have really screwed themselves this year. Apparently, a well-known judge (legal, rather than concours) selling a vehicle at B-J this year has filed papers with the court, because B-J contracts specifically promise every car three minutes on the stand. Evidently, he was one of the sellers who had his car short-timed. He communicated the story, which got broadcasted via the Classic Thunderbirds List. According to the grapevine, this is already being discussed as translating into class-action status for the benefit of other sellers.

According to this judge and other sources, it appears Barrett-Jackson was operating a bit on the same level as an evangelical healing show. Allegedly they had assistants milling around asking what specific sellers thought their cars would bring. Armed with this information at the control desk, if a lot passed the value at which a seller indicated he’d be happy, the car would be rushed off and the gavel would fall – even if bidding was still very much alive.

Because the event was televised on live television via the Speed TV network, the plaintiff(s) now have video/audio proof that buyers were signaling increased bids before the three-minute marks, but were denied by a too-fast last call and hammer.

While this all might cause Barrett-Jackson to have to pay money to sellers in the form of a judgment or settlement, it is something else that might land Craig Jackson in jail.

It is no secret that Barrett-Jackson owns many cars that are run through the auction – it was something I suspected many, many years ago. This was proven when they started maintaining a showroom of cars in Arizona. This is not illegal, but stay with me.

Along with many collectors, I’ve always suspected that the cars owned by Craig Jackson and the B-J company were often driven up by shill bidders working for the company. Essentially, the strategy works in the sense that ever since the auction focus moved from classics like Packards and Duesenbergs to muscle cars, B-J has been able to shill, say a Hemi Cuda or mid-year Corvette 427 they own, which causes the value of the 10 other identical cars to increase. They wind up “buying” their own car back, but the others go on to regular buyers, who now are paying higher because of the perception the market has moved up.

This suspicion has been supported by at least one auction attendee this year that says he witnessed cars sold at auction headed in trailers back to B-J’s warehouse. The lawsuit allegedly points out that these cars also spent significantly more time on the block than others.

If this isn’t all interesting enough, during this year’s auction, fellow collector car journalist, Keith Martin of Sports Car Market, was booted from the Westworld premises and his media credentials revoked for voicing loud, specific concern regarding the event while sitting in the media room. Barrett-Jackson accused Keith Martin of “holding court” and attempting to send VIPs and journalists to the competing RM and Russo and Steele auction events. Among the alleged opinions included that the cars at B-J were of inferior quality (and had quality misrepresented,) as well as that the bidders were significantly over-bidding cars, which shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone who has witnessed people paying six figures for cars they could have bought for under $50,000 any other day of the year!!!

This is somewhat of an interesting twist. Keith Martin’s publication has marketed the B-J events and has helped fuel its popularity. Keith is definitely one of the great “insiders” of the hobby, and has been a friend to Craig Jackson. In past years, Keith nor his publication have been critical of the goings-on and rumors, while other collector car journalists screamed that something stunk.

It makes sense, since Sports Car Market really only tracks the value of vehicles and other items sold at auction, rather than via private sales (which really has skewed SCM’s values for years!) So without kissing-ass to B-J, Keith would have missed insider info on the largest events covered by his mag. So we can only guess that Keith and Craig had a falling out of some type.

I applaud Keith for turning the corner on his view of B-J, but I’m with others I’ve talked to about this: I hate to say this about a colleague, but I believe his behavior was a bit unprofessional. As journalists, it is our responsibility to write what we think, but going to the show for years, then promoting RM and Russo+Steele while at Westworld is somewhat unkosher. I agree that Keith, a true hobbyist who started out by writing an Alfa Romeo newsletter, was for a long time too much a part of the “circus” about which he finally rejected, and that SCM has to a significant degree helped to fuel misinformation and a house of cards regarding specific auction prices and bidding behavior. Keith, by all accounts, is a really good guy — an enthusiast, who maybe just needed to take a step back and a big breath and reacquaint himself with those outside of the very insulated collector car “in crowd” — and spend time with some car people who are not trying to exploit the collectors. There are plenty of guys who have dug themselves too deep into this little crowd, and are no longer fun to deal with, because they’ve put personal greed well ahead of the cars and the collectors. Keith will rebound — he has a great internal staff of really fantastic people, who hopefully will help him return to his roots.

And Keith got his chance at revenge today, when his piece in the New York times said: “the red-hot market was cooling a bit.” He likened the high auction prices to the Dot.com craze, then went on to say: “While the prices of some types of cars remain strong, primarily low-production muscle cars with their original engines (“numbers matching” is the trade term) or sports racing cars like Ferraris, other more common cars produced in larger numbers, or cars whose engines have been replaced, are holding their values, at best.”

If you want to get back at someone who owns an auction house, the best way, I suppose, is to tell everyone that prices are too high. Ouch!

While I’ve never met him, the buzz among those in the hobby — both collectors and journalists, is that Craig Jackson is quite arrogant, so don’t expect many to come to his rescue. He inherited his father’s company, and has fueled B-J’s admirable growth with a combination of intelligence, drive, ego, and greed. While there is nothing wrong with that combination, if it results in unethical and possibly illegal activities, that’s inexcusable.

Like many surrounding the hobby, I will be watching the events unfold. Will the Westworld tents come down like a house of cards, or will everything just go away with an exchange of a little money? It’s happened before, like the 2006 event’s Futurliner debacle when investor Ron Pratt allegedly negotiated a $3.0M price (after B-J staff admitted to mistaking the high bid), but the reported sale was for $4.0M.

It’s hard to predict the outcome. None of us have all the facts. Craig Jackson has become a very powerful man, and his company has pumps an estimated $96M dollars into the Arizona economy annually. He’s allowed his say, and the appropriate judge/jury might very well decide he personally has done nothing wrong.

This all being said, there’s no doubt that Barrett-Jackson “jumped the shark” this year. Unlike when Fonzi did it, this story has Craig Jackson driving his allegedly shill-bid Hemicudas over the tank and down a ramp that could lead to six years in a minimum security prison-issued orange jumpsuit. If that’s the case, maybe he can get Sports Car Market in the slammer to keep-up on Russo and Steele, RM and Kruse auction results.
 
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1995COBRA-R

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Bill,
I read this on that site before it was deleted. It was deleted due to legal pressure.

The use of blogs as a forum for online communication is gaining popularity and their content is gaining influence. Yet the structure and nature of blogs raise a litany of challenging legal issues, including ones involving defamation, privacy, and copyright law. As the law catches up to this new technology, bloggers and their lawyers need to tread carefully in the shifting legal landscape of blogging.

It also goes back to the "2007 Terms and Conditions Of Sale" agreement that everyone signs before they sell a car or get a bidding paddle. It is a binding contract which is very one-sided (guess whose side?). I mentioned I'd never sign it. I also mentioned I'd never place my car to auction on a "no reserve" auction.

Because the event was televised on live television via the Speed TV network, the plaintiff(s) now have video/audio proof that buyers were signaling increased bids before the three-minute marks, but were denied by a too-fast last call and hammer.

I recorded and watched every minute of this broadcast (easily down with FF). I did see a few late signals. The guys delayed their signal. IMO, the bidder should have signaled earlier (they had many long seconds of time to do so). You snooze; you lose. I disagree that it is a conspiracy.

There is no guarantee as to the amount of time a car must be on stage. I've read it three times.

And Keith got his chance at revenge today, when his piece in the New York times said: “the red-hot market was cooling a bit.”
I did not quote the writer's full statements about Keith Martin (to save bandwidth), but I disagree with the theory that Keith "has just sounded an alarm".

I have subscribed to Sports Car Market for many years. I've mentioned it on this board many times. Keith has been sounding the alarm on what he considers a "bubble" market for years. He has never pulled any punches (nor does his staff).

I can't make any more comments since I have been in contact with several "collector car experts" (for many months) which may be associated associated with SCM (OK, they are associated). Emails (like PMs) are private correspondences. I will not invade their trust.

I do have questions:
1) Who wrote the blog? He says he is a "journalist" but never identified himself.
2) Does anyone really believe that "shilling" isn't prevalent in auctions (car, wine, art, etc.)?
3) Is there a law that makes shilling a criminal event (I honestly couldn't find it)? I agree it could be a civil event. A person harmed can sue the shilling parties in civil court (but not B-J, read the contract).

This all being said, there’s no doubt that Barrett-Jackson “jumped the shark” this year. Unlike when Fonzi did it, this story has Craig Jackson driving his allegedly shill-bid Hemicudas over the tank and down a ramp that could lead to six years in a minimum security prison-issued orange jumpsuit. If that’s the case, maybe he can get Sports Car Market in the slammer to keep-up on Russo and Steele, RM and Kruse auction results.
Hmm. I wonder who will end up on the wrong side on this court case?

This kind of undocumented and unproved allegation is suitable for "Smack Down". If I had this opinion, I'd certainly site proof and law.

Again, I have no dog in this fight. I'd never buy at auction (I'd just buy from someone here that I trusted). I'll watch for public comments on this situation from SCM (which I can post).
 

1995COBRA-R

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Who wrote the blog? He says he is a "journalist" but never identified himself.

Nevermind. I just found out who he is. I'll take back my comments on the author. I just wish he would have shown more respect as well as given us some tech.

Does anyone really believe that "shilling" isn't prevalent in auctions
I understand they also call it "chandlering".

I also understand that is completely legal in a no-reserve auction (it may be unethical, but it's legal).

It's amazing what a fellow car enthusiast will share with you (even people that you haven't meet; you just share a gearhead philosophy).

Buyer Beware!
 

scottmartin

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I'll take back understand they also call it "chandlering".

I also understand that is completely legal in a no-reserve auction (it may be unethical, but it's legal).

Doc, maybe i am living in a dream world, but this SHOULD be illegal in a no reserve auction. Buying a car at auction should not be like playing cards in Vegas. I would be pissed if i found out i was bidding against the house. Scott
 

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Especially when the guys from Speed were looking at cowl tags and in one instance, a BB Chevelle was up for bid, when Steve M noticed it had a Malibu tag on it and said "Buyer Beware".

To me, BJ, should have all the facts on the cars that you are bidding on what is advertised.
 

1995COBRA-R

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I agree.

Every Ford guy knows you need a Marti report.
http://www.martiauto.com/

The Shelby cars are also easily researched (with even better result).

The Ferrari and other exotics have plenty of backup.

The Mopar cars are easy to trace.

The only GM cars which can be traced are the Pontiac's (I can't find their site, so do a search). If you want a Chevy (or a Corvette as Bruce does), you better do your homework. They are the most easily counterfeited cars in the world.

I doubt anyone here really cares since we generally just like to "run 'em until they break, fix 'em, and then take 'em back out for another pounding". ;-)

My amateur prediction: Prices are headed south for cars that aren't very very rare or historically significant.
 

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1995COBRA-R said:
I agree.

Every Ford guy knows you need a Marti report.
http://www.martiauto.com/

The Shelby cars are also easily researched (with even better result).

The Ferrari and other exotics have plenty of backup.

The Mopar cars are easy to trace.

The only GM cars which can be traced are the Pontiac's (I can't find their site, so do a search). If you want a Chevy (or a Corvette as Bruce does), you better do your homework. They are the most easily counterfeited cars in the world.

I doubt anyone here really cares since we generally just like to "run 'em until they break, fix 'em, and then take 'em back out for another pounding". ;-)

My amateur prediction: Prices are headed south for cars that aren't very very rare or historically significant.

A guy on another website went and bought 6 or more cars at Scottsdale. As you know, they only really televise the high end cars. This guy said it was a blood bath for most sellers, losing their shirts.

If you look at many of the Vette prices, they sold for a lot less money than last year. The big numbers were Ford and Chrysler this year.

Hell, you probably could have gotten a half mil or more if you just strapped a Hemi moder to Hillary Rodham's back and threw in a free hummer to boot....right Bruce?
 

cobra186

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There is absolutley nothing illegal about schill bidding... It is done at every dealer/auto auction in the world.

BJ auction had to back up the bids on many occasions this year.... They said it was confusion between auctioneer and bidder assistants but I guarantee you they "out ran the money" and the schill bidder was on top so they backed up to get back to a real money bidder.... Dealers that attended auctions regularly know when its being done but the general public does not have a clue and just think everything is o.k.

As far as this practice driving up the prices..... I look at it this way: NOBODY is forcing them to bid on the vehicle. If they want the car and bid that much then they were evidently willing to pay the price whether its overly inflated or not.

As they said many times on air.... everything is "buyer-beware" and you must do your research first. ... this includes fair market value, vehicle condition and whether its #'s matching or not. If they don't know what they are doing then they should not be bidding.

As far as BJ being able to provide a guarantee on every vehicle there is no way... It would take a year or more to check all 1200+ vehicles for authenticity and would cost them $100's of thousands in man hour cost.
 

ac427cobra

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cobra186 said:
There is absolutley nothing illegal about schill bidding... It is done at every dealer/auto auction in the world.

Back in the day, when I attended car auctions, bidding was on the "up and up". I really can't see how you can say "shill bidding" is an accepted practice?! :read: :rollseyes :dw:
 

cobra186

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I am NOT saying it should be acceptable.... just saying that it is done at every auction these days..... i.e. B-J is not the only auction house practicing this.

When I catch the auctioneers trying to do it to me I just walk away and let them get hung with their man on top..... when they try to back the bid up, I tell them that they should not have been "rolling me" and walk off. They usually get a dumb look on their face because they know they were caught.
 

cobra186

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Another thing that happens is other bidders know the kinds of cars you bid on. If you make them mad by not letting them have a car they want or whatever other reason... these bidders (usually rich guys) will bid against you on every car that you bid on just to make you pay more for the car.... makes them feel good I guess from a revenge stand point.

Auctions are and will always be mind games and ego wars.....
 
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ac427cobra

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cobra186 said:
Auctions are and will always be mind games and ego wars.....

At BJ, I agree, 100%. That is why you will never see me there. I don't care how cool the cars are! :fart: If I want to go see cool cars, I'll go to the track! :-D

BJ has pretty much, singlehandedly, ruined the auction procedure!

There is no other place on the planet that a $10,000.00 car can sell for $100,000.00, a $100,000.00 can sell for $1,000,000.00 and a $500,000.00 car can sell for $3,000,000.00!!!!! Of course, that's only my opinion. Others might certainly disagree! :idea:
 

mrmustang

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cobra186 said:
There is absolutley nothing illegal about schill bidding... It is done at every dealer/auto auction in the world.

There is enough case law out there to show otherwise, all you need to do is look up "bid tampering" in your state lawbooks. All it takes is one truly pissed off buyer who finds out he was had by a seller to get the ball rolling:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/shills.html

and

http://www.out-law.com/page-5052

There are plenty of other cases out there, some including BJ, some including Ebay, others including dealer auctions and dealer based shills. In reality only one state protects folks like this and that is Florida where an individual or a corporation can file for bankruptcy protection (look up homestead law) and keep whatever they call home...((In once case a $20,000,000 airport facility). All other states have strict laws against "bid tampering", you just need to know how to look them up, and find a lawer who knows how to prosecute.


Bill S.
 

1995COBRA-R

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mrmustang said:
all you need to do is look up "bid tampering" in your state lawbooks. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/shills.html

and

http://www.out-law.com/page-5052

:shrug: I talked to a lawyer that said shill or chandlering was legal in AZ (he is a car collector and lawyer in CA).

I did search GA. I had no success finding any law concerning it (but I'm far from being a legal expert).

The two cases you posted were in NY.
pleaded guilty to Combination in Restraint of Trade, a violation of the New York antitrust law,

In reality only one state protects folks like this and that is Florida where an individual or a corporation can file for bankruptcy protection
I knew FL allowed an individual to keep their home in case of bankruptcy. I thought they just lowered the threshold (i.g., the amount of value that a home could protect)? GA allows a person filing bankruptcy to keep some things (a car, furniture, etc).

A Federal law went into effect at the end of 2005 which made it harder for anyone to file for bankruptcy.

Regardless, a person would have to receive a judgment against them that exceeded their net worth in order to need to file bankruptcy.

Shilling is still unethical.
 

mrmustang

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Here is another interesting article:

http://www.maineantiquedigest.com/articles/sep04/ethics0904.htm

Bill S.

PS: Bidding tampering or shilling is getting Federal level attention these days because of places like Ebay and BJ. Those who run a professional business and regularly ply this type of trade to reap more profits are the ones who really need to worry as they are the ones who will be under the microscope.
 

Robert M

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To me, this whole B-J auction thing has caused some to pay way more than a realistic price for their vehicle, and caused others who own specific vehicles to assume that their vehicle is worth way more than the realistic current market. It is nice to watch those cars go across the auction, it is sad that now, Every B-J auction has a question mark hanging over it. I agree that these questionable auction practices have damaged the collector car market, at least for now.

R
 

cobra186

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I don't see any connection between bankruptcy and bid shilling..???

Even if the law has a grey area that might open a case for bid shilling..... I don't think there is anyway in the world you could ever prove it. You will have to get the guy that your are suing to admit to the practice... and you know the guy is going to cover his own a$$. If a friend of his is bidding it up, you would have to prove that he was not intending on buying the vehicle, which could not be done......

I still say it all comes down to the fact that you should research, research and research some more then pay only what you are willing to pay.... if you bid more than that, then don't go crying to anyone... be a man about it and move on. Thats the problem with the world today in general... people don't take responsibilty for their own actions... they always want to blame someone else then sue them over it.
 

cobra186

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One other thing.... if its a reserve sale then the seller has first right of refusal. If the bids don't go high enough then the car is not going to sell whether he/others help the bidding along or not.
 

1995COBRA-R

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Robert M said:
To me, this whole B-J auction thing has caused some to pay way more than a realistic price for their vehicle, and caused others who own specific vehicles to assume that their vehicle is worth way more than the realistic current market.

I think I look at this whole thing differently than others due to my many years in the securities business.

The stock market is ultimately an auction process. Each day millions of shares are offered at an ask price (the seller), and there is a corresponding bid price (from a buyer). No one causes us to buy or sell. We determine what is a fair price (we calculate the intrinsic value) and if we click the button on our Bloomberg for the shares; we can place the corresponding results to nothing but our own intelligence (if it later goes up :-D ), or our miscalculation (or stupidity ;-) ) if the transaction fails to turn an appropriate profit.

The securities industry is littered with people who were caught up in misplaced "emotions" and bought at market peaks (or shorted at market bottoms). We called them the "dumb money". Their clearing houses called them "broke and busted" and call in their margin. I think their lack of proper preparation caused their downfall.

I transfer this same suitability to car auctions. If a guy pays too much for a car, it was his fault (IMO). No one made him raise the paddle. He should have performed his best due diligence before the auction even started. He should check the paperwork (very carefully) and talk with the seller. He should go over the car with the proper equipment to seek pure metal panels (are they straight and aligned properly?) and the appropriate thickness of the paint. He later then determines what is the market price for the car before the car even goes on stage. Once the bidding goes beyond his predetermined price level, he should step away from the action. There are hundreds of cars that are always on the market; they should just be patient and wait for the upcoming better deal.

I actually think that the stock market is a much easier calculation of value than the collector car market. There is no way I'd go to an auction without hiring an expert to guide me through this maze.

I just read in Auto Week that they noticed a few different trends this year (they call it a "fashion" thing). The clones and customs were clearly weak this year. I noticed that Hemi clones were selling for one-half of their price last year. I was surprised to learn that the 1950's cars did very well (I sure wouldn't have guessed this). The rare and beautiful cars with proper documentation still remain strong (SCM predicted this).
 
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