Atheists

[Revvv]

RDJ is right. And the believers in all three are collectively referred to as "Children Of The Book;" and all three assert that the original book was given to mankind by God Himself, thus the title "Children Of The Book." Jehova, Allah, Yahweh, all the same Creator.

Jehovah and Yahweh are the same. The Hebrew people used many names to describe God. Elohim, El Shaddia, Adonai, and many more. The Jewish God is the God of the Christian faith. Allah does not exist outside of Islam.

All three religions do claim a right to the heritage of Abraham. Israel and the Muslim world have been. In a constant fight over the inheritance of the land (The Middle East).

Allah is not Yahweh, and is not God. This means little to nothing to no believers, and I can understand why. However, the Muslim faith is corrupted, and does not follow in the faith and footsteps of Abraham. Ishmael went a different direction than Isaac, and understandably so. Abraham was not perfect, and he screwed up. He cast out Ishmael and his mother once Isaac was born.

I'm a Christian, but I have to admit, if I was Ishmael I would have been pissed off myself.

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[Revvv]

Bingo! Exactly what I would have like to say but too tired to type.

You can say it, but it's not correct. Now I have to stop messing with my car and give a good answer.

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[VegasMichael]

It always seems that for all the religions that believe in one God it's just the details they disagree on, not the single God thing. That they all agree upon.

 

[Revvv]

It always seems that for all the religions that believe in one God it's just the details they disagree on, not the single God thing. That they all agree upon.

I'm not saying that Muslims do not worship one deity. They do, and the Koran has an issue with anyone not following Allah. You are an infidel if you worship Jehovah. Why, because they are not the same.

I'm going to end up teaching a theology class before this is over.

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[RDJ]

well you believe what you want. there are plenty of biblical scholars, rabbis, imams and christian leaders who would disagree with you. The majority of people that I have found that agree with you are generally the far right wing born again crowd.

Allah certainly exists outside of Islam. YOU may choose to ignore that but the Pope acknowledges the fact that all three belief systems worship the same god.

From an article in TheConversation.com
"
The founder of Islam, Muhammad, saw himself as the last in a line of prophets that reached back through Jesus to Moses, beyond him to Abraham and as far back as Noah. According to the Quran, God (known as Allah) revealed to Muhammad:

the Book with the truth [the Quran], confirming what was before it, and [before He sent down the Quran] He sent down the Torah of Moses and the Gospel of Jesus… as a guidance for the people.

Thus, since Muhammad inherited the Jewish and Christian understandings of God, it is not surprising that the God of Muhammad, Jesus and Moses has a similarly complex and ambivalent character – a blend of benevolence and compassion, combined with wrath and anger. If you were obedient to his commands, he could be all sweetness and light. But you didn’t want to get on his wrong side."

You seem to me to be conflating the idea of what God is i.e. Trinity of separate divine individuals, Trinity of three manifestations of the same being, or a single god, with the idea of God himself. Christians idea of God are as different as night and day among the various denominations, does that mean they don't all worship the same God? of course not. and the name of god is varied as well. The Jews, have called him by many names, why can't ALLAH be just another name? truth is there is no reason he can't.

You say the muslim faith is corrupted and you say that like the christian faith is not corrupted, yet it is as corrupt as islam, they can't agree on the nature of God, the divinity of Christ, The Trinity, what hell means, how many are going to be saved and on and on and on. If Christianity was not corrupt there would be no disagreements over this stuff but there is.

as far as "Allah" not existing outside of islam there again your understanding is incorrect. A search of Allah brings up this which is factual: The Aramaic word for "God" in the language of Assyrian Christians is ʼĔlāhā, or Alaha. Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God". The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for "God" than "Allah".
Are you going to say they are not christians because they use the word ALLAH?

Jehovah and Yahweh are the same. The Hebrew people used many names to describe God. Elohim, El Shaddia, Adonai, and many more. The Jewish God is the God of the Christian faith. Allah does not exist outside of Islam.

All three religions do claim a right to the heritage of Abraham. Israel and the Muslim world have been. In a constant fight over the inheritance of the land (The Middle East).

Allah is not Yahweh, and is not God. This means little to nothing to no believers, and I can understand why. However, the Muslim faith is corrupted, and does not follow in the faith and footsteps of Abraham. Ishmael went a different direction than Isaac, and understandably so. Abraham was not perfect, and he screwed up. He cast out Ishmael and his mother once Isaac was born.

I'm a Christian, but I have to admit, if I was Ishmael I would have been pissed off myself.

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[OETKB]

I thought RDJ was onto something there for awhile, but as usual, got it all assbackwards.

Never seen someone take so many facts, and run them through the blender so badly.

 

[RDJ]

I thought RDJ was onto something there for awhile, but as usual, got it all assbackwards.

Never seen someone take so many facts, and run them through the blender so badly.

well then you post up something other than this worthless bullshit and prove me wrong, or try to

 

[OETKB]

well then you post up something other than this worthless bullshit and prove me wrong, or try to

I actually subscribe to one of the Gods you clearly dismiss so I’ll save my breath for someone who might be listening.

 

[Revvv]

well you believe what you want. there are plenty of biblical scholars, rabbis, imams and christian leaders who would disagree with you. The majority of people that I have found that agree with you are generally the far right wing born again crowd.

Allah certainly exists outside of Islam. YOU may choose to ignore that but the Pope acknowledges the fact that all three belief systems worship the same god.

From an article in TheConversation.com
"
The founder of Islam, Muhammad, saw himself as the last in a line of prophets that reached back through Jesus to Moses, beyond him to Abraham and as far back as Noah. According to the Quran, God (known as Allah) revealed to Muhammad:

the Book with the truth [the Quran], confirming what was before it, and [before He sent down the Quran] He sent down the Torah of Moses and the Gospel of Jesus… as a guidance for the people.

Thus, since Muhammad inherited the Jewish and Christian understandings of God, it is not surprising that the God of Muhammad, Jesus and Moses has a similarly complex and ambivalent character – a blend of benevolence and compassion, combined with wrath and anger. If you were obedient to his commands, he could be all sweetness and light. But you didn’t want to get on his wrong side."

You seem to me to be conflating the idea of what God is i.e. Trinity of separate divine individuals, Trinity of three manifestations of the same being, or a single god, with the idea of God himself. Christians idea of God are as different as night and day among the various denominations, does that mean they don't all worship the same God? of course not. and the name of god is varied as well. The Jews, have called him by many names, why can't ALLAH be just another name? truth is there is no reason he can't.

You say the muslim faith is corrupted and you say that like the christian faith is not corrupted, yet it is as corrupt as islam, they can't agree on the nature of God, the divinity of Christ, The Trinity, what hell means, how many are going to be saved and on and on and on. If Christianity was not corrupt there would be no disagreements over this stuff but there is.

as far as "Allah" not existing outside of islam there again your understanding is incorrect. A search of Allah brings up this which is factual: The Aramaic word for "God" in the language of Assyrian Christians is ʼĔlāhā, or Alaha. Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God". The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for "God" than "Allah".
Are you going to say they are not christians because they use the word ALLAH?

You do realize that I'm not just some blind faith follower, don't you? While I am a right wing conservative, I am also open to listening and learning from and with others. In fact, I'm educated, and not only in Theology.

Yes, I hold several degrees in Theological studies. I also have a background in the arts and Psychology. I have studied this stuff every way possible.

My research began as an agnostic. I didn't know if there was a god, and if so I thought they were all the same. At that point the research began. I did not simply study religions of the world, I looked into them as I wanted to know more. With each study I was able to punch holes in the faith. I even knocked holes in Christianity until I began applying history to the life of the Hebrew people.

Yes, there are scholars that disagree with me. I've been on stage to debate with a few. At the end of the day, yes, the word "Allah" in Arabic means god, but the connection to God as known by Jews and Christians is not the same.

The short version.

I will admit that you started off on a good run, but then you plainly stated that you do not understand the Trinity. From there things went downhill.

I personally cannot disconnect God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. They are One. For the sake of argument though, let's toss out the word "trinity". It isn't even found in the Christian Canons, or any form of ancient letters or writings. It is a simplified word Christians use to define the Godhead.

Where does that leave Jehovah God? It does not leave God in the same position as the Allah of Islam. After the book of Malachi, God is silent until Jesus enters the scene.

Then the Islamic faith appears on the scene with a Muhammad. Without insult to my Muslim friends (I have many) Muhammad was a brilliant man, but not a prophet. I have studied the Koran / Quran and found it to be a mess. To be honest, the study of that book made me look more seriously at Jehovah God and the Hebrews.

You simply cannot detach Jesus from God. They are One. Being such, it is not far fetched for Islam to proclaim Him as a prophet. He is indeed a prophet in that God is revealed in Him.

There is so much more I want to say, but I am trying to allow people to be open in this thread without me taking it over.

I may not be done. I'm sure more thoughts will come to mind while I reassemble the dash in my ol GT.

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[Revvv]

I actually subscribe to one of the Gods you clearly dismiss so I’ll save my breath for someone who might be listening.

There's no reason to be silent. This is an open, non judgmental conversation as far as I am concerned. I don't agree with RDJ, but I respect his view. I used to share his view.

I'm actually glad this thread came up. It has me dusting off my old books and papers. It is also keeping my mind off of the BS I have going on at the moment.

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[tt335ci03cobra]

Hardly took five minutes, it's material I'm pretty familiar with and love talking about. You displayed an interest, and I was off and running.

Wanna know anything about the SR-71 Blackbird?

I would be lying if I didn’t answer that I want to know all the things Hahahhaha. Thread hijack objections be damned, I think the proof of god is definitely that such air craft existed in the 1960’s. I mean it’s more American and badass than apple pie ala mode and muscle cars.

I know it holds or at least held the official record for a manned air breather at over Mach 3. I can’t imagine what a pilot in the late 60’s would have felt like flying that for classified deep intelligence work, then hanging out with buddies in 12 second Chevelle ss or boss 429’s etc etc and having to be like “oh ya we have some fast ass cars guys, these things really fly!” (Can’t blow cover haha) but honestly I could only imagine how f*n fun piloting an sr-71 would be.

I bet pilots today flying what I assume are 5-10 Mach classified stuff put on a great face of being impressed by the hellcats and gt500’s they buy but are really kicking themselves waiting to feel incredible speed again.

What’s it like in the cabin at 2-3 Mach? What can you actually hear and not hear? What sensory changes do you find the most impressive or discussion worthy?

 

[RDJ]

I actually subscribe to one of the Gods you clearly dismiss so I’ll save my breath for someone who might be listening.

I did not "dismiss" any of the gods

You do realize that I'm not just some blind faith follower, don't you? While I am a right wing conservative, I am also open to listening and learning from and with others. In fact, I'm educated, and not only in Theology.

Yes, I hold several degrees in Theological studies. I also have a background in the arts and Psychology. I have studied this stuff every way possible.

My research began as an agnostic. I didn't know if there was a god, and if so I thought they were all the same. At that point the research began. I did not simply study religions of the world, I looked into them as I wanted to know more. With each study I was able to punch holes in the faith. I even knocked holes in Christianity until I began applying history to the life of the Hebrew people.

Yes, there are scholars that disagree with me. I've been on stage to debate with a few. At the end of the day, yes, the word "Allah" in Arabic means god, but the connection to God as known by Jews and Christians is not the same.

The short version.

I will admit that you started off on a good run, but then you plainly stated that you do not understand the Trinity. From there things went downhill.

I personally cannot disconnect God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. They are One. For the sake of argument though, let's toss out the word "trinity". It isn't even found in the Christian Canons, or any form of ancient letters or writings. It is a simplified word Christians use to define the Godhead.

Where does that leave Jehovah God? It does not leave God in the same position as the Allah of Islam. After the book of Malachi, God is silent until Jesus enters the scene.

Then the Islamic faith appears on the scene with a Muhammad. Without insult to my Muslim friends (I have many) Muhammad was a brilliant man, but not a prophet. I have studied the Koran / Quran and found it to be a mess. To be honest, the study of that book made me look more seriously at Jehovah God and the Hebrews.

You simply cannot detach Jesus from God. They are One. Being such, it is not far fetched for Islam to proclaim Him as a prophet. He is indeed a prophet in that God is revealed in Him.

There is so much more I want to say, but I am trying to allow people to be open in this thread without me taking it over.

I may not be done. I'm sure more thoughts will come to mind while I reassemble the dash in my ol GT.

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I believe that God, Jesus, and The Holy Ghost are three separate individuals but one in purpose. I do not believe they are manifestations of the same person

This pretty much proves my point regarding the corruption of christianity. If there was no corruption then there would not be disagreement over the basic tenants of the faith

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[BigPoppa]

Allah is Aramaic for "God" and was used by all three Abrahamic faiths. Even Christian arabs today use "Allah" because there is no other word for "God" in the language.

Yahweh is Hebrew.

God is English.

Saying Allah and God are not the same thing because they are different words is akin to saying "formaggio" and "cheese" are two different things because they are different words.........

 

[Revvv]

I did not "dismiss" any of the godsI believe that God, Jesus, and The Holy Ghost are three separate individuals but one in purpose. I do not believe they are manifestations of the same person

This pretty much proves my point regarding the corruption of christianity. If there was no corruption then there would not be disagreement over the basic tenants of the faith

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There is no corruption, but there is human interjection and even interpretation that is misleading.

If you want to call that corruption, I will agree with you. There are several denominations that I think are off in left field, and they think the same about me.

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