Apten Oval Port Loves Boost - I made the 500 club today guys! with Upper/Lower Combo

[Dominick32]

Ok guys. Just to bring back a little information from the past to refresh your memories:
I did the Apten Port job a couple of months ago as you all know. I posted my results on here and I cant say I wasnt satisfied. My horsepower numbers were encroaching 500rwhp and my torque was "OK". I lost 20ft. lbs. of torque and gained 20 hp with the new apten oval port. However, I am using a 2.93 pulley and only seeing 12.5lbs of boost. I have a theory that will be tested out very soon about my low torque numbers and less than 500 horsepower numbers.

From what my understanding is that when the torque numbers are higher than the horsepower numbers it means our Eatons lost there efficiency.
With my numbers 492rwhp and 472rwtq my blower is still very efficient.

My plan is to order MJ's MAF Xtender, order a 4lb. lower pulley kit and get this thing re-tuned. This will seriously test out if the new Apten oval port enjoys having 16+ pounds of boost. I can predict horsepower numbers of around 505 and torque numbers around 525 to the wheels.

Dom

-----------UPDATE AS OF TODAY------------
Ok guys.
Today I went to Mustang Magic in Long Island and finally installed my 4# lower. Lightning Force Performance makes the lower pulley kit. It came with all the hardware and install was a little under an hour.

After extensive tuning with the MAFXtender we finally managed to work out the kink in this middle RPM dip we had in Air Fuel ratio.

My baseline setup looks like this:
Apten Ported Blower
2.93 SFPH Direct Press On
EFI Solutions Tune

The baseline dyno pull netted 492rwhp and 460rwtq:

(Please note, the baseline dyno pull was taken in similar conditions but 3 weeks before today.)

Installation was only a 4# lower kit by LFP and MJ's MAFXtender. We reflashed the car with EFI Solutions software but everything else was kept in exactly the same configuration as the baseline pull. The first time we pulled the car it fell flat on its face at 3200 rpms. It netted 396rwhp and 452rwtq. We all knew something wasnt right. It turns out that a 78" gatorback belt does not fit this combination and it was slipping completely. We had to put a 77.5" Gates belt on to ensure no more slip and faulty dyno pulls. As I said before, it took us a few hours to work the kinks out of the middle RPM range but my final pull netted these wonderful results:
501 rwhp 521 rwtq

From a simple upper/lower pulley combination we gained 9 rwhp and 61 ft. lbs. of torque. I have to agree that my theory was correct. The apten oval port does indeed NEED MORE BOOST to cure its low torque numbers.

During the initial punch of wide open throttle my boost hits 15 immediately and slowly creeps up to 18 until about 6100 rpm when it starts to fall on its face to 15. After 6100 rpm my car is completely out of injectors. You cant see on this dyno chart but at 6800 the A/F ratio is almost at 13.4

I am definitely gonna need to short shift this car at around 6200 for optimal elapsed times at the drag strip.

Here is the overlay chart of the baseline and post install:

I was really ecstatic today, ask all the guys who came down to show there support for me. I am now officially a 500/500 club member!

Thanks everyone who helped me out in this journey my svt cobra has taken me. I really appreciate it. As far as modifications are concerned, I think I am pretty much finished with fuggin with this car.

Dom

 

[hj16]

Can we get some SAE numbers please?

 

[Dominick32]

To be completely honest with you. I didnt even print out the SAE numbers but from what I recall seeing them on the screen:

SAE 495rwhp and somewhere around 508 rwtq (these are guestimates)
STD 501rwhp, 521 rwtq
Uncorrected my numbers were a little higher than 505 , 525
(once again, they are guestimates)

BTW- Thanks for the congrats! :??:

 

[tickingcobra]

Man that's great I just bought an Apten and will install this Sunday...I hope with my new Apten and a 2.8 pulley, BBK long tube headers, Accufab t-body, C&L 95 mm mas air, I am right near 500 rwhp..................I wonder what I'd be at with a 4lb lower?

 

[Dominick32]

Originally posted by tickingcobra
Man that's great I just bought an Apten and will install this Sunday...I hope with my new Apten and a 2.8 pulley, BBK long tube headers, Accufab t-body, C&L 95 mm mas air, I am right near 500 rwhp..................I wonder what I'd be at with a 4lb lower?

Thanks alot man.
I really appreciate that as my heart is still racing with adrenaline tonight.. lol

If you are doing a 2.80 upper pulley I would recommend going with the 2lb. lower pulley rather than the 4#.

As it is right now, my 2.93 upper and 4# lower is severely out of injectors after 6100 RPM's. It actually falls flat on its face.

I think a 2.80 upper and 4#lower might be pushing it a little too much. I had a 2.80 upper pulley initially but swapped to a 2.93 so I could put on the 4# lower in the future.

I will wait for some others to chime in for you about the 2.80 and 4# combo. This is only my opinion. You will be running out of fuel completely in the upper RPM's. Even more so than my combination.

Dom

 

[trey193]

I am still trying to work out the bugs of adding my 2lb lower. I drove the car today with the 2lb lower and it feels like shit, I am also using a 78 gatorback so I too could have slip issues . Couple of questons for ya , is your bottom idler in the top or bottom hole on the metco bracket?? Also could you get a picture of where your tensioner is at as far as tight or loose?? I will try and get this 2lb & 2.80 combo running right and if not I will go back with my tried and true 2.80. Great numbers!!!

 

[tickingcobra]

Do you need an additional pulley if I install a 2lb lower?

 

[tickingcobra]

Do you need an additional pulley if I install a 2lb lower? You know anyone looking to sell a 2lb lower?

 

[Dominick32]

Originally posted by trey193
I am still trying to work out the bugs of adding my 2lb lower. I drove the car today with the 2lb lower and it feels like shit, I am also using a 78 gatorback so I too could have slip issues . Couple of questons for ya , is your bottom idler in the top or bottom hole on the metco bracket?? Also could you get a picture of where your tensioner is at as far as tight or loose?? I will try and get this 2lb & 2.80 combo running right and if not I will go back with my tried and true 2.80. Great numbers!!!

No. Trey. YOU NEED TO KEEP THE UPPER/LOWER COMBO.
Once you work out the kinks in your setup you will be amazed in the difference it makes. My bottom idler is in the bottom whole, after we had 78" belt issues trying both configurations. It turns out the best belt wrap was using the 77.5" gates belt in the bottom idler whole. I think you should definitely try the 1/2 inch shorter belt. With belt slip THIS COMBO IS A NIGHTMARE, as you can see in my post here:

The first time we pulled the car it fell flat on its face at 3200 rpms. It netted 396rwhp and 452rwtq. We all knew something wasnt right. It turns out that a 78" gatorback belt does not fit this combination and it was slipping completely. We had to put a 77.5" Gates belt on to ensure no more slip and faulty dyno pulls.

I will try and get that picture for you.

Thanks for the comments and I wish you luck!

Dom

 

[Chonger]

I've been tossing this ported blower thing around for a while. Your results are F'in awesome. The upper/lower combo is the ticket for some major TQ numbers. You are probably pretty close to a KB at 15#. My only fear is that the stock fuel system is not enough. If it is enough then its right on the edge and that does not leave much room for error.

1) Do you think you would have run out of injector with a 2.80 upper only at 6300 RPM's?

2) Are you going to add to the fuel system (BAP, bigger injectors, etc.)?

Thanks,

 

[Hissssnsvt]

CONGRATS Dom.....:beer:

Looks like your theory was correct, whats really impressive is your mid-range gains...wow. Maybe all you need now is a BAP?

 

[Snorman]

Nice numbers...and that torque gain is right where you want it.
:thumbsup:
I'm going to be going to MM with my ported Eaton/TB/Plenum/pulley combo in the next month or so.

hj16..."No soup for you!!!
:nonono:
S.

 

[hj16]

Originally posted by Dominick32
BTW- Thanks for the congrats! :??:

Congrats

Thanks for answering my question:beer:

 

[hj16]

Originally posted by Snorman
hj16..."No soup for you!!!
:nonono:
S.

Burn in hell...... I am allowed to ask questions, what I said wasnt negative at all, I just didnt give him the obligitory pat on the back.

 

[Dominick32]

Originally posted by hj16
I just didnt give him the obligitory pat on the back.

Understandable. Thanks for the congrats brother!!

Dom :beer:

 

[Dominick32]

Originally posted by Chonger
I've been tossing this ported blower thing around for a while. Your results are F'in awesome. The upper/lower combo is the ticket for some major TQ numbers. You are probably pretty close to a KB at 15#. My only fear is that the stock fuel system is not enough. If it is enough then its right on the edge and that does not leave much room for error.

1) Do you think you would have run out of injector with a 2.80 upper only at 6300 RPM's?

2) Are you going to add to the fuel system (BAP, bigger injectors, etc.)?

Thanks,

1. NO WAY! In one of my earlier situations, an Apten Ported blower w/ 2.80 upper only my MAF was at 4.97 Volts (very close to pegging) BUT NOT PEGGING. And she held boost and didnt noticeably look like she was running out of fuel until about 6800rpm(rev limiter zone)

2. I have two future purchases: An Actual MAF Meter(for my own reasons) and 55lb. injectors.

Fuel Pumps will also be purchased in the future if I decide to go with an aftermarket blower.

Dom

 

[Dominick32]

Originally posted by Snorman
Nice numbers...and that torque gain is right where you want it.
:thumbsup:
I'm going to be going to MM with my ported Eaton/TB/Plenum/pulley combo in the next month or so.

hj16..."No soup for you!!!
:nonono:
S.

Thanks alot man! :beer:

The torque gain is absolutely what I was looking for today.
61 more ft. lbs. of torque ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE BOARD.
Not to mention solid horsepower gains across the board.(not so much a peak number gain, but solid sustained power)

Good luck!

Dom

 

[Dominick32]

Originally posted by Hissssnsvt
CONGRATS Dom.....:beer:

Looks like your theory was correct, whats really impressive is your mid-range gains...wow. Maybe all you need now is a BAP?

Thanks alot brother.
I finally did it! Now go get your car finished and tuned!

A few things I want to apoligize about:
I told a few people on here that I would have datalog results of air inlet temperature, etc.
Also, people wanted me to baseline the car on the same day before the pulley install.

My response:
Mustang Magic was swamped with customers today. We spent a few hours on my car just trying to figure out the extended MAF tables. There was no time to play around. Besides me, there were 3 cars waiting to be tuned.

Dom

 

[broke7]

First off congrats on the #'s Dom.

Its wierd how these belts are working on some of these combos.

I run a Gates/Napa k080797 on mine--- 79" on mine with a 4lb lower and 2.75 Upper. I do have a additional 100mm Idler then two replacement idlers, one is 92 and other is 100. , my tensioner mark is right in the middle as well, so it cant be too loose. I think I am getting some slip though, but very small amount.

I see about 18psi on mine, and falls down to 16.5 ish way up top above 6000. I can definitely feel the tq difference in the two combo's. Havent been to the dyno yet to get some #'s.

Ran the car again tonight and it went [email protected] on a 1.74 60ft slippin the clutch very badly, too much tq for the ole stock 16k mile one now.

I have the old school metco bracket and my idler is in the middle also.

 

[plan b]

Dom, Don't you think you've maxed the fuel pumps as well? I'm doing the 4 lb. lower in the spring with bassani mid length headers, catted x, and billetflow tb. During that install, I'm going with focus pumps. I have the apten with a 2.76 billetflow pulley currently. That upper lower combo really added a lot of torque.:beer: