Anyone want to trade some data logs?

[Ryan23]

Hey Guys -
Ran the car on a different Dynojet tonight and was a little less than pleased with the results. We gave the car plenty of time to cool down and made three pulls after it was back up to temp (188F according to the ECT PID in Live Link). Results were 621, 615 and 611 rwhp (SAE). Engine was pulled until 7K. Temp was ~42 degrees outside. T/C was in "Mode 8" "Off" in accordance with the supplement. My "ETC angle actual" PID value was a solid "82" for the duration of the WOT portion of the pull.

I've got a Lund tune, SCJ TB & a CF JLT intake.

Some of you may recall that I dyno'd the car last month on Excessive Motorsport's Dynojet. It put down 645 rwhp (SAE). Chris @ Excessive used his own laptop to log, so I don't have those logs sitting in front of me. Hopefully he labeled them and can E-mail them to me to cross compare.

Perusing tonight's logs, it looks like I was only getting between 15.5-16 degrees of total timing (Spark Advance V2). I had a few sporadic values between -.5 & -1 on my knock sensor during each pull. I logged "Absolute Load" but can't correlate a boost reading from that (yet). Looking at the idle, min & max values though, I believe I can figure out the correct scaler to make this PID relevant. I'll just tee my old reliable mechanical boost gauge in and compare logged reading to actual manifold pressure.

I'm not here to point fingers or say "the tune sucks" or anything of that nature. I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of MY car's PERCEIVED shortfall. The only way I know to do that is log, make some changes and troubleshoot.

I may be a novice to Ford tuning but I've been tuning engine management in other vehicles (Import & Domestic) for the last 15 years or so now. I chose the Lund tune because John's reputation with Fords is well known. Why re-invent the wheel for the cost of a $300 tune?

So I've got a couple of things I'm going to try. First off, I'd like to get some logging done on the street. I've swapped my gas since the last dyno session to 93 octane Shell exclusively. Apparently it didn't make much of a difference as I had the same spurious knock sensor activity as I did then. Maybe it's time for a few gallons of VP100 gas to put the crappy fuel possibility to rest?

At this point, I'm also considering dropping back to the stock TB, intake and tune for a baseline dyno pull/log. If you do believe in "friday afternoon" cars, perhaps my car is just one of those half-assed cars. Who knows?

So if you've done any logging via your SCT tuner (or wouldn't mind doing some logging!) I'd love to take a peek and maybe we could open some dialogue and compare notes.

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[farmboy90]

Please smack me if you think I am hijacking the thread here (it's not my intent). I just wanted to jump in and say that I might be interested in helping with data logging. Just tell me how.

But here is my story and why I am interested. I just loaded a Lund tune today in my car and am having lots of problems.

I got two tunes from Lund:

1) 91 octane + JLT CF + dual 65mm TB + 320z of Torco
2) 91 octane + JLT CF + dual 65mm TB

Today I installed the 65mm throttle body, JLT carbon fiber big air intake, and then I flashed the ECU with your 91 + Torco tune. The car started and idled just fine. I took it out for a drive. Seemed to drive just fine went not under boost. However, the car detonated as soon as I moved from vacuum to boost. At the time, I had 1/2 tank of gas that had a full bottle of torco in it. I then loaded the 91 octane _non-torco) tune. I still have detonation. Here is a basic test I was doing:

- From a rolling 45mph or so, I put the car in 2nd gear and went into boost. I ran it up to about 10 lbs of boost. I could hear no signs of detonation. At 10lbs, the A/F ratio was 10.9 - 11.1.
- From a rolling 45mph or so, I put the car in 4th gear and went into boost. Instant detonation once I entered boost. The extra load of the tall gears was too much for it I guess.

So both tunes gave me problems. I then did these checks:

1) Checked that the air filter was not pushed up against the end of the JLT tube. I thought that the end of the tube might be hitting the screen and that might mess things up. I checked the connection and was able to pull the filter back off towards the end of the tube a good 1" - 1.5". So there is definitely not issue with contact at this point.

2) I checked that the throttle body is not contacting the end of the JLT tube. I confirmed that there was a good gap and no contact.

3) I checked that the mass air sensor was seated firmly. I removed it and reinstalled it cleanly and securely.

4) At this point I was at about 1/4 tank of gas. So I filled it up to 1/2 tank and add a full bottle of torco.

I then re-tested the car. I am still running the non-torco 91 octane tune at this point. Same detonation problem.

Any ideas what else I can do here? Do you think data logs would tell me much?

 

[BOD89LX]

Please smack me if you think I am hijacking the thread here (it's not my intent). I just wanted to jump in and say that I might be interested in helping with data logging. Just tell me how.

But here is my story and why I am interested. I just loaded a Lund tune today in my car and am having lots of problems.

I got two tunes from Lund:

1) 91 octane + JLT CF + dual 65mm TB + 320z of Torco
2) 91 octane + JLT CF + dual 65mm TB

Today I installed the 65mm throttle body, JLT carbon fiber big air intake, and then I flashed the ECU with your 91 + Torco tune. The car started and idled just fine. I took it out for a drive. Seemed to drive just fine went not under boost. However, the car detonated as soon as I moved from vacuum to boost. At the time, I had 1/2 tank of gas that had a full bottle of torco in it. I then loaded the 91 octane _non-torco) tune. I still have detonation. Here is a basic test I was doing:

- From a rolling 45mph or so, I put the car in 2nd gear and went into boost. I ran it up to about 10 lbs of boost. I could hear no signs of detonation. At 10lbs, the A/F ratio was 10.9 - 11.1.
- From a rolling 45mph or so, I put the car in 4th gear and went into boost. Instant detonation once I entered boost. The extra load of the tall gears was too much for it I guess.

So both tunes gave me problems. I then did these checks:

1) Checked that the air filter was not pushed up against the end of the JLT tube. I thought that the end of the tube might be hitting the screen and that might mess things up. I checked the connection and was able to pull the filter back off towards the end of the tube a good 1" - 1.5". So there is definitely not issue with contact at this point.

2) I checked that the throttle body is not contacting the end of the JLT tube. I confirmed that there was a good gap and no contact.

3) I checked that the mass air sensor was seated firmly. I removed it and reinstalled it cleanly and securely.

4) At this point I was at about 1/4 tank of gas. So I filled it up to 1/2 tank and add a full bottle of torco.

I then re-tested the car. I am still running the non-torco 91 octane tune at this point. Same detonation problem.

Any ideas what else I can do here? Do you think data logs would tell me much?

Have you tried to pull out global timing? I had big problems with detonation on my tune from someone else I had to pull 4 degrees of timing out to stop the knock in my 93 tune and pulled 2 degrees in my 91 tune running 93 octane, after some data logging the tuner made me a few new files and the latest one does not ping, I can send you my data log if you want.

 

[farmboy90]

I thought of that, and actually tried to do it about an hour ago. The problem is I can't figure out how. I plugged in the SCT tuner and couldn't find any options that seemed viable. I would love to try it though if someone can tell me how to do it.

 

[BOD89LX]

I thought of that, and actually tried to do it about an hour ago. The problem is I can't figure out how. I plugged in the SCT tuner and couldn't find any options that seemed viable. I would love to try it though if someone can tell me how to do it.

Plug in tuner and go to tune vehicle and pick the tune and it should give you the option to custom tune and then go to options and timing and you can pull it out there.

 

[farmboy90]

Plug in tuner and go to tune vehicle and pick the tune and it should give you the option to custom tune and then go to options and timing and you can pull it out there.

I dont' see this option. I just went down and tried it. Here is the sequence:

I select program vehicle. I am then given three options:
- Custom tune
- Strategy tune
- Return to stock

So I pick custom tune. It then tells me to "Turn Key On". So I do that. Then it scans the car or something and says "Turn key off". I turn key off. Then I get only two choices:
- 91 + mods (which is what I named one of my tunes)
- 91 + torco (which is what I named my other tune)

If I click one of the tunes, then it starts to program car. There are no other options at that point.

Any ideas?

 

[BOD89LX]

I dont' see this option. I just went down and tried it. Here is the sequence:

I select program vehicle. I am then given three options:
- Custom tune
- Strategy tune
- Return to stock

So I pick custom tune. It then tells me to "Turn Key On". So I do that. Then it scans the car or something and says "Turn key off". I turn key off. Then I get only two choices:
- 91 + mods (which is what I named one of my tunes)
- 91 + torco (which is what I named my other tune)

If I click one of the tunes, then it starts to program car. There are no other options at that point.

Any ideas?

When you select the tune file and enter does it give youmamlist of items to adjust, mine has that and the first thing listed adjust options then global spark it on the top of the list, if yours doesn't have that tune may have that feature locked in your tune file.

 

[Ryan23]

Please smack me if you think I am hijacking the thread here (it's not my intent). I just wanted to jump in and say that I might be interested in helping with data logging. Just tell me how.

But here is my story and why I am interested. I just loaded a Lund tune today in my car and am having lots of problems.

I got two tunes from Lund:

1) 91 octane + JLT CF + dual 65mm TB + 320z of Torco
2) 91 octane + JLT CF + dual 65mm TB

Today I installed the 65mm throttle body, JLT carbon fiber big air intake, and then I flashed the ECU with your 91 + Torco tune. The car started and idled just fine. I took it out for a drive. Seemed to drive just fine went not under boost. However, the car detonated as soon as I moved from vacuum to boost. At the time, I had 1/2 tank of gas that had a full bottle of torco in it. I then loaded the 91 octane _non-torco) tune. I still have detonation. Here is a basic test I was doing:

- From a rolling 45mph or so, I put the car in 2nd gear and went into boost. I ran it up to about 10 lbs of boost. I could hear no signs of detonation. At 10lbs, the A/F ratio was 10.9 - 11.1.
- From a rolling 45mph or so, I put the car in 4th gear and went into boost. Instant detonation once I entered boost. The extra load of the tall gears was too much for it I guess.

So both tunes gave me problems. I then did these checks:

1) Checked that the air filter was not pushed up against the end of the JLT tube. I thought that the end of the tube might be hitting the screen and that might mess things up. I checked the connection and was able to pull the filter back off towards the end of the tube a good 1" - 1.5". So there is definitely not issue with contact at this point.

2) I checked that the throttle body is not contacting the end of the JLT tube. I confirmed that there was a good gap and no contact.

3) I checked that the mass air sensor was seated firmly. I removed it and reinstalled it cleanly and securely.

4) At this point I was at about 1/4 tank of gas. So I filled it up to 1/2 tank and add a full bottle of torco.

I then re-tested the car. I am still running the non-torco 91 octane tune at this point. Same detonation problem.

Any ideas what else I can do here? Do you think data logs would tell me much?

Not a hijack at all =) This is the type of situation where logging will at least give some clues as to what's going on. OK, here's what you need to get started:

• SCT Tuner (Duh)
• Live Link software ( SCT Performance - LiveLink Datalogging Software Updated )
• The USB cable that came with your SCT Tuner
• A laptop with an available USB port
• A quiet stretch of asphalt where you can safely pull the car

Install Live Link like you would any other software. Go out to the car, plug into the OBD2 port under the left side of the dash under the steering column (Farmboy, I'm writing this for everyone's benefit, I know you've figured this much out) Plug one end of the USB cable into the bottom of the tuner and the other end into your USB port on the laptop. Turn the ignition on.

Fire up Live Link and you should be greeted with a choice of 5 drop down tabs. Go to "Commands" and choose "Configure datalog items". If all goes well, Live Link will connect to the ECU and then give you an option list. I'm not plugged into my car as I type this, so I'll recall off the top of my head. You should see a list of menu items you can drill down into. I drilled down and ticked the following boxes:

AFR Bank 1
AFR Bank 2
CHT
ECT Degf
etc angle actual
iat in degf
knock sensor
load absolute
lt fuel trim b1
lt fuel trim b22
Maf flow rate
RPM
spark advance
spark advance v2
st fuel trim b1
st fuel trim b2
total misfires
vehicle speed

Each of these items you check off is a "PID" or "Parameter ID". They are supposed to be a standardized way of viewing data via the OBD2 data stream across all car platforms. Doesn't matter if it's a Ford or a Nissan. In my next post I'll describe what each PID means to the best of my knowledge.

So hit next or continue and it should save your selection. You'll then get a window that shows all your parameters and a graph on the right. Go ahead and start the car up at this point. Going back up to the "Commands" dropdown, you should see "Start data logging" (ctrl + F1 is the keyboard shortcut). If all goes wells, you should see your numbers get set in motion. Go ahead and go for a drive. When you come back, "Commands" and "Stop Data Logging" or just hit ctrl + F2. Now go to "File" drop down and choose "save datalog as" Give the log some sort of meaningful name (I like to use date + time and voila! All done.

Give me a sec and I'll write a post describing what the PIDS are and how to interpret the data.

Ryan

 

[farmboy90]

When you select the tune file and enter does it give youmamlist of items to adjust, mine has that and the first thing listed adjust options then global spark it on the top of the list, if yours doesn't have that tune may have that feature locked in your tune file.

Yeah I guess both my tune files are totally locked down. I have no such options.

 

[farmboy90]

Not a hijack at all =) This is the type of situation where logging will at least give some clues as to what's going on. OK, here's what you need to get started:

• SCT Tuner (Duh)
• Live Link software ( SCT Performance - LiveLink Datalogging Software Updated )
• The USB cable that came with your SCT Tuner
• A laptop with an available USB port
• A quiet stretch of asphalt where you can safely pull the car

Ok, I only have mac laptops. Let me see if I can borrow a windows laptop from somewhere.

 

[Lethalchem]

Ok, I only have mac laptops. Let me see if I can borrow a windows laptop from somewhere.

Doesn't work with Mac? :nonono:

 

[farmboy90]

Doesn't work with Mac? :nonono:

Nope, it's an .exe file. Will need to borrow a windows laptop from a neighbor later today.

 

[Devious_Snake]

Hope you get this figured out, this is why I refuse to tune my car for a while and when I do, two words:

dyno tune

 

[91svtbird]

Please smack me if you think I am hijacking the thread here (it's not my intent). I just wanted to jump in and say that I might be interested in helping with data logging. Just tell me how.

But here is my story and why I am interested. I just loaded a Lund tune today in my car and am having lots of problems.

I got two tunes from Lund:

1) 91 octane + JLT CF + dual 65mm TB + 320z of Torco
2) 91 octane + JLT CF + dual 65mm TB

Today I installed the 65mm throttle body, JLT carbon fiber big air intake, and then I flashed the ECU with your 91 + Torco tune. The car started and idled just fine. I took it out for a drive. Seemed to drive just fine went not under boost. However, the car detonated as soon as I moved from vacuum to boost. At the time, I had 1/2 tank of gas that had a full bottle of torco in it. I then loaded the 91 octane _non-torco) tune. I still have detonation. Here is a basic test I was doing:

- From a rolling 45mph or so, I put the car in 2nd gear and went into boost. I ran it up to about 10 lbs of boost. I could hear no signs of detonation. At 10lbs, the A/F ratio was 10.9 - 11.1.
- From a rolling 45mph or so, I put the car in 4th gear and went into boost. Instant detonation once I entered boost. The extra load of the tall gears was too much for it I guess.

So both tunes gave me problems. I then did these checks:

1) Checked that the air filter was not pushed up against the end of the JLT tube. I thought that the end of the tube might be hitting the screen and that might mess things up. I checked the connection and was able to pull the filter back off towards the end of the tube a good 1" - 1.5". So there is definitely not issue with contact at this point.

2) I checked that the throttle body is not contacting the end of the JLT tube. I confirmed that there was a good gap and no contact.

3) I checked that the mass air sensor was seated firmly. I removed it and reinstalled it cleanly and securely.

4) At this point I was at about 1/4 tank of gas. So I filled it up to 1/2 tank and add a full bottle of torco.

I then re-tested the car. I am still running the non-torco 91 octane tune at this point. Same detonation problem.

Any ideas what else I can do here? Do you think data logs would tell me much?

Looks like you have the same problem as Joe on that other thread. The MAF transfer curve is most likely off. When the load tables are incorrect the timing maps will be off. This will be difficult to see in data logging especially if the A/F is correct.


This is what Ford says will happen when the MAF transfer curve is done incorrectly or the wrong one is used. You can read about it here from Ford : http://d27vj430nutdmd.cloudfront.net/20544/88199/88199.1.pdf

". The downside of this method is that many other variables
such as spark advance are determined from the MAF sensor through a parameter called “load”. For a given engine RPM, as load increases, required spark advance decreases. Since, by using this method, the MAF outputs a signal that is lower than the stock MAF, the calculated load will also be lower. This means that commanded spark advance will be higher than it should be, which can potentially result in spark knock and other concerns."


This is also why these tuners feel it is necessary to datalog their tunes so they can try to correct their errant MAF meter curve. Don't get me wrong it's always a good thing to datalog to double check the A/f but the reason shouldn't be to correct a wrong MAF curve. They will never get it 100% correct doing it this way without knowing the real flow data. Telling you to use octane and or race fuel is just their way of masking the real issue.

 

[farmboy90]

Does Evolution use Lund or do they have their own tunes? Is it worth calling them up and having them email me one of their tunes to try out?

Or any ideas where I can get another tune to try?

 

[Myfast70]

Maybe try VMP. They seem to have a lot better customer service and actually correspond on the boards.

 

[91svtbird]

Does Evolution use Lund or do they have their own tunes? Is it worth calling them up and having them email me one of their tunes to try out?

Or any ideas where I can get another tune to try?

PM sent

 

[farmboy90]

Maybe try VMP. They seem to have a lot better customer service and actually correspond on the boards.

Sent them an email, thanks for the tip!

 

[Ray Lucca]

Farmboy and Ryan. You have a Lund Tune purchased from Lund, or Lethal, or Evolution or Van at Revan?? Have you contacted them with the issues?? Have you sent them the Data-logs??? Corrupted File, or SCT issue?? Hope you get it worked out..
91 SVT: Regarding the New '13, if we we're to add the FRPP Resonator Delete, Airraid Blue Non-oiled Filter, and a Tune, would the Maf transfer curve remain from the original Tune with the Factory Cai??? I have always thought the New Cai should be added last. The factory set-up is good to over 650 Rwhp, right???

 

[DolSVT00]

Looks like you have the same problem as Joe on that other thread. The MAF transfer curve is most likely off. When the load tables are incorrect the timing maps will be off. This will be difficult to see in data logging especially if the A/F is correct.


This is what Ford says will happen when the MAF transfer curve is done incorrectly or the wrong one is used. You can read about it here from Ford : http://d27vj430nutdmd.cloudfront.net/20544/88199/88199.1.pdf

". The downside of this method is that many other variables
such as spark advance are determined from the MAF sensor through a parameter called “load”. For a given engine RPM, as load increases, required spark advance decreases. Since, by using this method, the MAF outputs a signal that is lower than the stock MAF, the calculated load will also be lower. This means that commanded spark advance will be higher than it should be, which can potentially result in spark knock and other concerns."


This is also why these tuners feel it is necessary to datalog their tunes so they can try to correct their errant MAF meter curve. Don't get me wrong it's always a good thing to datalog to double check the A/f but the reason shouldn't be to correct a wrong MAF curve. They will never get it 100% correct doing it this way without knowing the real flow data. Telling you to use octane and or race fuel is just their way of masking the real issue.

Its the way its done with remote tuning, you want it perfect, you have to take it to someone so they can put their hqnds on it.

Farmboy and Ryan. You have a Lund Tune purchased from Lund, or Evolution or Van at Revan?? Have you contacted them with the issues?? Have you sent them the Data-logs??? Corrupted File, or SCT issue?? Hope you get it worked out..
91 SVT: Regarding the New '13, if we we're to add the FRPP Resonator Delete, Airraid Blue Non-oiled Filter, and a Tune, would the Maf transfer curve remain from the original Tune with the Factory Cai??? I have always thought the New Cai should be added last. The factory set-up is good to over 650 Rwhp, right???

We've done the delete and blue filter on one here, nothing changed. The stock tune is plenty rich from the factory.