Any NASA CMC racers here?

[WutApex]

I’m looking at jumping into a CMC prepped Mustang GT and trying to get a feel for the associated costs compared to running my current 97 Cobra in HPDE.

Obviously there’s a greater risk of body contact, etc but from a consumables standpoint, I‘m thinking there wouldn’t be a big difference. Brakes, fuel consumption, and tires would be about the same….maybe less as my current car is a couple hundred pounds heavier...or a bit more as I'll be driving the car harder.:shrug:

Any hidden costs I’m not accounting for other than all the proper safety gear?

Any helpful hints getting into this class, or W2W for that matter?

 

[wheelhopper]

I don't run CMC but I run with NASA and my car is set up close to a CMC car. I also have several friends that run CMC and have been pushing to get me into it.

The point of CMC is a cheap W2W race class. If you don't go exotic on parts, like brakes, you should be fine for consumables. I would try to stick with brake set up that uses factory parts, particularly rotors, that you can find cheap. With this plan you'll probably do a set of front pads every weekend. Two sets of rears a year. A set of front rotors every third weekend. And three sets of tires per year. This may be more than you currently use, but when you race you will drive the car much harder than in HPDE. Other wise your looking at your standard gas and maintenance costs.

People will argue that you need a fancy 4 or 6 piston front brake kit, which is one of the few areas in CMC that you can do an over the top part, but I have been in many Mustangs that brake great with a PBR or Cobra R front brake set up.

 

[WutApex]

I'm hoping I can squeeze more than one weekend out of a set. I didnt recall the local CMCers saying they went through pads that quick - definitely a question I need to ask them since they are pricey


Am I the only one that thinks the PBRs don't seem to release well and have a lot of uneven pad wear? Just basing it on my current car. Happens even after the caliper was rebuilt. I also think it would be nice to not have to take off the entire caliper to r&r the pads. Cost of pads would be my main deciding factor on upgrading the braking system...but any thoughts of that are well down the road.

 

[WutApex]

Also, it looks like the 4th gen Camaros are top dog. How does the 4.6 pi stack up against the other engine choices? I kind of get the impression that its not as desirable.

 

[wheelhopper]

The PBRs tend to expand as they get old and are used a lot. Rebuilding them does not do any good. It is the caliper itself that expands and flexes. If you could get your hands on a set of '00 R calipers that would give you nice pad wear and easier pad swaps and let you keep using the cheaper rotors. I personally don't think changing pads on the PBRs is not that bad.

There is not that many Camaros in the MA region. Mustangs dominate here. The top guy has been driving a foxbody. Recently though a new competitor has been using an SN95 Mustang with the 4.6 and non PI heads. He says he is down on power compared to the other cars but it eliminates having to think about throttle input/steer. He says he just keeps the pedal matted all the time, except when braking of course.

 

[37Fox]

Also, it looks like the 4th gen Camaros are top dog. How does the 4.6 pi stack up against the other engine choices? I kind of get the impression that its not as desirable.

The CMC National Champion runs a 4.6 modular motor in a SN99...

 

[WutApex]

The CMC National Champion runs a 4.6 modular motor in a SN99...

Not the norm though.....and usually not the case regionally either.

Maybe it was the wheels & spacers :lol:

 

[TXPD]

the hard part of racing and choosing your equipment is planning for a sustainable program with the turning of the calendar. cmc is no longer a series with a future. there will be no new cars added moving forward. there is what there is and when those cars wear out and or stop coming, the class with die off.

its important to buy something that you can feel confident that you can sell in two or three years and get a good return toward your next race car.

too often guys race for 3 or 4 years and stop. often that's because of the evolution of equipment and classes. cmc is a great place to learn your racing but its really hard to make it sustainable.

remember that its about the overall investment required. a $40k that you can sell later for $30k cost you $10k. a $25k car that you can only sell for $10k cost you $15k in real terms.

if you want to race a mustang, do not buy anything older than 2005....and you cant race a 2005 mustang in cmc. of course this is my my opinionated opinion

 

[Sirl]

Pretty sound advice right there.

 

[37Fox]

Not the norm though.....and usually not the case regionally either.

Maybe it was the wheels & spacers :lol:

LOL!!! Must have been... Those wheels and spacers sure have caused a ruckus...

 

[37Fox]

I don't really believe that CMC is going to come to an end because the lack of cars available. The Mustangs eligible for the class were built from 1979 to 2004. How many Mustangs were built during that time?

 

[wheelhopper]

^I agree. Look at Spec E30. They stopped making those cars a long time ago and we just had a race in Oct. that had over 30 cars. CMC has actually been growing slowly in MA region over the past few years.

Also the guy running a close second right now bought his car for $7500. If he races it for 2 years, that is a hell of a value in my book. Even if he wrecks it and can't sell it.

 

[TXPD]

I just spent the weekend at the American Road Race of Champions at Road Atlanta. I heard a lot of talk about the decline of spec Miata. the cars are getting old and the current mx5 is a different car that isn't legal for the class. same thing.
a 2004 mustang is ten years old as of now. with the entry of the 2015 shortly, the 2004 will be 4 body styles past. the last fox body car was 1993. that car is 20 years old already. its a vintage car. many of the Camaros running ar the same age.

look at this another way. the 2014 car is selling now. the 2004 is ten years old. that means a 25 year old was 15 when the last one was built and and 4 when the last fox body was built. Camaro lost an entire generation because it was gone. Who is going to want to drive these cars? old farts like us and that's all. that's another signal that the growth years are gone.

do it...by that cmc car, but when you want to move to another class. something faster and newer just plan on starting from scratch because what you have wont be much of a down payment on a new car.

the car I am racing now is old. this stuff all applies to me. if I still have this car in two years it will likely be my last race car.

 

[MFE]

I don't think you can count on ANY race car being competitive 5 years later as it sits, either because the rules change around it, or the class goes away.

 

[TXPD]

i think its important to try to have a plan for moving forward. i just know too many guys that started racing and got attached to their race car and by the time they were willing to replace it moving to another car became too expensive and that was the end of the road.

unless you are wealthy enough that the money isn't an issue whether you race a Miata or and Audi R8, you need to navigate with an eye on the next year or two because you can waste a lot of money in the process. for many that money is the difference between racing and not racing.

i started racing AI 7 years ago. i can put my finger on two guys that were racing AI in NASA SE when I started that still are now. Of those that are not, only one is racing at all anymore.

 

[37Fox]

There is a HUGE difference between spec Miata and CMC. Mostly cost... Look at the cost of a fully prepped spec Miata compared to a CMC car.

I had absolutely no road race components at all and started with a '94 V6 Mustang roller. I had no engine, no transmission, absolutely nothing - starting from scratch. The last of my components came in today being the steering rack and rear calipers. The engine is built, the transmission is built, the rear end is built... The car has Wilwood front brakes, Koni DA's and all of the Maximum Motorsports suspension components that are legal for CMC. I have right at $11,000 in it right now. I am doing everything myself and realize that saves a great deal of money... I will fabricate the cage for it next summer after doing a few DE's. I have replaced all of the "wear" items with new components. When all is said and done I will have essentially a brand new car fully CMC prepped car for ~$12,500.

 

[99COBRA2881]

Which CMC car are you looking at? Navy blue CMC race car by chance? Central region ran a few x-over events with RM region. Hard to pass up on the deal I posted up about even if it's an AI car.

 

[WutApex]

Dave B's dark blue #6. Quite possible he made it out to Hasting/Hallett/Topeka this year. I think the car was in Iowa for a while too but sold back to Dave earlier this year.

I've looked at that AI car quite a few times...I like it but there's no one to run in this region and I heard it was getting ridiculously expensive to run AI.

Edit: took a look at the pics from Topeka...Hampton's car # 36

 

[TXPD]

what is ridiculously expensive?

 

[WutApex]

I just know (heard) a bunch of ppl in our region ditched thier AI cars to go CMC since it was cheaper and a bigger car count. Not sure how accurate the info is but I can assume a quasi-spec class would be cheaper than the more open rules allowed in AI.