Any Economists here?

[Burnt Rice]

Id just like to here your views on the immigration thigs that are happening.
Thanks :beer:

 

[Burnt Rice]

*removed by moderator* This isnt smackdown, you need to control your mouth.

 

[SNCBOOM]

I'm a senior undergrad economics major at the moment but will be entering the PhD program soon. And luckily I have a labor economics course at the moment. Basically, the domestic supply of labor is much higher on the demand curve than the total labor supply curve (which includes illegals). With that said, the domestic supply of labor is less willing to work for a lower wage. The equalibrium amount of domestic labor is working for a higher wage with less workers than illegals...nothing new or revolutionary really. The illegals drive the wage down and increase the number of workers working for that wage. If all illegals were deported or restricted from working, the wage would be driven back up (as would the prices for the consumer) and the number of workers would decrease back to the domestic level. Consumers of products and services benefit from reduced prices, employers benefit at least in the short run, but eventually more firms will enter the workforce and economic profits will be driven back to 0 (in the long run). The first instance I spoke of a situation in which the demand curve stayed constant, but if you vary the demand curve based on immigration (i.e. increased demand for mechanics, teachers, retail clerks etc.), basically aggregate demand increases so workers who are not close substitutes for unskilled immigrant labor may benefit because of the increased consumer demand. So basically the only losers from immigration at this level are domestic workers with less than a high school education which may be highly substitutable. Assuming that immigrants work when they arrive, profit-maximizing models of employer behavior suggest that they are paid no more than the value of their marginal product or the extra added value of their production. So if they rely only on their own earnings to finance their consumption, immigrants do not reduce the per capita disposable income of the native population. AND if the earnings of the immigrant are less than or not equal to the FULL value of output they add then the native population benefits.

Now on to the public subsidies...
If their [immigrant workers] taxes paid are enough to cover these benefits then the disposable income of the native population is not threatened. And if their taxes paid aren't enough to cover the costs that they utilize it could be large enough to reduce the aggregate income of natives...no big suprise there. But there are three considerations that suggest that illegal immigration may be more likely to increase the aggregate income of natives than legal immigrants. First, illegal immigrants come mainly to work so this adds to the production of domestic goods and services. Second, no matter how poor they are they are still ineligible for many programs (Social Security, unemployment insurance, food stamps), and unless they're paid in cash which happens a lot they still pay taxes (payroll and sales, and I would even suspect property taxes), and quoting my text here "one study indicated that 75% of illegal immigrants had income taxes withheld but that relatively few filed for a refund."

 

[DaleM]

Ben Bernanke, "No, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night."

 

[UCBeau]

I was going to post something pretty much like that, but using paragraphs.

 

[Burnt Rice]

sncboom- Do u support immigrants here or not?

Damn dude u realy do your studying!

 

[SNCBOOM]

I was going to post something pretty much like that, but using paragraphs.

paragraphs :shrugs: I didn't want to draw the graphs really

 

[DaleM]

Second, no matter how poor they are they are still ineligible for many programs (Social Security, unemployment insurance, food stamps).

So what cost is medical (HIV, birth, Hepatitis, gunshot wounds) legal (incarceration with associated court costs, cost for insurance due to uninsured motorists) and education as claimed by many town criers of doom?

 

[SNCBOOM]

So what cost is medical (HIV, birth, Hepatitis, gunshot wounds) legal (incarceration with associated court costs, cost for insurance due to uninsured motorists) and education as claimed by many town criers of doom?

True that many illegals incur large costs but how many white trash pos's that have never had a job, relied on welfare their entire life, wasted a public education, are in prison?

 

[UCBeau]

paragraphs :shrugs: I didn't want to draw the graphs really

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA just make sure you put Ceteris Paribus next to each graph, wouldn't want to confuse anyone. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[DaleM]

True that many illegals incur large costs but how many white trash pos's that have never had a job, relied on welfare their entire life, wasted a public education, are in prison?

Also the cost incurred by having to establish a border patrol and enforce the border.
I know it is true illegals cost more, OK I am assuming they do but at what cost.
I understand our internal legal populations problems but that was not a question posed. Maybe you can compare the costs for us?

 

[SNCBOOM]

Also the cost incurred by having to establish a border patrol and enforce the border.
I know it is true illegals cost more, OK I am assuming they do but at what cost.
I understand our internal legal populations problems but that was not a question posed. Maybe you can compare the costs for us?

It'd definately be interesting. I wish I had the data

 

[FordSVTFan]

So what cost is medical (HIV, birth, Hepatitis, gunshot wounds) legal (incarceration with associated court costs, cost for insurance due to uninsured motorists) and education as claimed by many town criers of doom?

Medical, Education and Prison in 2004 totalled well over $60,000,000,000.00. Yes $60 Billion!!!

That doesnt include the costs of free lunch and breakfast programs, or daycare or afterschool care or any of the other social programs.

That would mean for the illegals to just cover there minimal expenses they would each have to pay about $5500 a year. But of the 11,000,000 illegal immigrants, only about 7,000,000 of them work, the rest are unemployed spouses and children. So the cost is actually about $8000 per illegal per year. And they dont even come close to being able to pay 25% of that!!!

 

[DaleM]

It'd definately be interesting. I wish I had the data

So you are a lazy economist just spouting footnotes from a lecture?

 

[DaleM]

Medical, Education and Prison in 2004 totalled well over $60,000,000,000.00. Yes $60 Billion!!!

That doesnt include the costs of free lunch and breakfast programs, or daycare or afterschool care or any of the other social programs.

That would mean for the illegals to just cover there minimal expenses they would each have to pay about $5500 a year. But of the 11,000,000 illegal immigrants, only about 7,000,000 of them work, the rest are unemployed spouses and children. So the cost is actually about $8000 per illegal per year. And they dont even come close to being able to pay 25% of that!!!

Dang that money would equal the profits by several times greater than the US oil companies combined, where is the anger?

 

[SNCBOOM]

So you are a lazy economist just spouting footnotes from a lecture?

Economist, not yet but lazy either way. Those are just the simple ideas associated with immigration from an economics stand point. I'm sure if I were going into a more specific field of labor economics I'd care enough to go look up the data and crunch the numbers but it really doesn't concern me.

 

[DaleM]

Economist, not yet but lazy either way. Those are just the simple ideas associated with immigration from an economics stand point. I'm sure if I were going into a more specific field of labor economics I'd care enough to go look up the data and crunch the numbers but it really doesn't concern me.

Wouldn't this be a great research paper for your class? Perhaps not popular but the numbers would be staggering. If you have the energy to do the research once you get it graded post up an executive summary.

 

[TrueBlueGT]

True that many illegals incur large costs but how many white trash pos's that have never had a job, relied on welfare their entire life, wasted a public education, are in prison?

I find it interesting that you should choose this specific verbiage in your response. I'm going to guesstimate the continuing annual cost for room & board for these "white trash pos's" is still, and will continue to be less than, what we wasted on the black trash pos's that never will have a job, relied on welfare to supplement their petty theft, won't get off their ass to go to school, Katrina "victims". But if anyone mentions anything about that, we get the race card shoved down our throat.

I'm not defending whiskey tango morons but merely encouraging you to blanket your racism a bit more effectively in the future by offering the convex of your statement.
And yes, I do hate the fact that we gave millions of $'s to some of the most unproductive people in the country.