Another #8

[Nathan'sTsi]

We really don't care if you understand us. No desire to have a blown vehicle again. It's not even remotely a challenge to run 9s with one now. Boring.

.....and it's fun to run 11s in an automatic????
That is my point exactly. It would be more fun (for me) to have a car that puts a big smile on my face, or perhaps a little feces on the passanger seat, every day.
I don't see the Cookie Fairy coming your way any time soon for achieving "x" time with "y" motor combination.

To each their own though If that tickles your pickle then have at it :rockon:

 

[kdanner]

.

 

[Nathan'sTsi]

Well if you like that, go build one instead of just talking about it..

Why would I want to downgrade?

 

[wbt]

Sorry, I issed your super intelligent post.
Answer me this, captain numbnuts...
If the issue is soley tune related, then why is it the same cylinder is crapping out? Why is there a failure on a different cylinder on the other poorly tuned cars? Do these "shitty tunes" only add timing to that one cylinder? Maybe that is the problem!!11!!!one one one
Those of us with a fully functioning cerebrum can infer that there must be a reason for the same cylinder failing. This would be the "design flaw" I was refering to. Don't be mad at me if you lack the ability to deduce anything from the available information. Maybe your parents didn't read to you as a kid or something. You should ask them about that though.....

You illustrate your lack of comprehension again by accusing me of regurgitating what you tryped when I was merely trying to explain my orignal post that you accused of being "wrong again", so that a simpleton could understand it.

I am not a track guy. It doesn't really mean much to me have have a slip of paper with a certain number on it. Being as such, I would rather spend money on the car making it faster in the real world, since I drive it there every day.
I've never understood these guys that spend 2000 bucks on bigs and littles, delete the front sway bar and go through all of the other BS for a sub 120 mph car. Seems like it would be way more fun to skip that crap and put a little bit mroe money towards a blower kit.

You are from San Antonio....bring your shit to the track and back your mouth up. You are sounding more and more like a Camaro owner.....

You are implying that I don't understand that it is always #8. You inferred it is a design flaw because it is always number 8 and then turn around and say it is tuning related. You fail.

Number 8 seems to be more sensitive to running a LEAN TUNE. You know as-well-as I do that could be due to any number of factors none of which anyone has any real evidence of except what? A shitty tune. The issue is as simple as this:

Don't run at .9 lambda and #8 works just fine as-long-as Joe doesn't run 87 octane with a 93 octane tune. It is caused by detonation. If you don't create detonation, everything works as it should. Can you comprehend that?

Again, if #8 cylinder had a design flaw then any power adder would destroy that cylinder every time. It is not happening. Can you comprehend that?

Those are the facts and I don't give a shit if you want to swallow it or not.

Again, instead of being a dickhead, read the links I posted for you. Until you can come back with something intelligent to add to the topic, STFU.

 

[Nathan'sTsi]

You are from San Antonio....bring your shit to the track and back your mouth up. You are sounding more and more like a Camaro owner.....

You are implying that I don't understand that it is always #8. You inferred it is a design flaw because it is always number 8 and then turn around and say it is tuning related. You fail.

Number 8 seems to be more sensitive to running a LEAN TUNE. You know as-well-as I do that could be due to any number of factors none of which anyone has any real evidence of except what? A shitty tune. The issue is as simple as this:

Don't run at .9 lambda and #8 works just fine as-long-as Joe doesn't run 87 octane with a 93 octane tune. It is caused by detonation. If you don't create detonation, everything works as it should. Can you comprehend that?

Again, if #8 cylinder had a design flaw then any power adder would destroy that cylinder every time. It is not happening. Can you comprehend that?

Those are the facts and I don't give a shit if you want to swallow it or not.

Again, instead of being a dickhead, read the links I posted for you. Until you can come back with something intelligent to add to the topic, STFU.

First of all, you are a total idiot. Go back to my first post in this thread and read it very slowly. You might want to put your thinking cap on as well. You should probably take breaks as well because I don't want you to hurt yourself.

Ok. now that you are back, do you see how I said "when safe gaurds are modified". What was happeneing is some tuners were either turning down the sensativity of the knock sensors, or disabling them all togehter. Some of the cars might have been running too lean as well. While those are definitely big issues, why then is the detonation and broken pistons only limited to one cylinder? Again, anyone who is not an idiot would say it is becasue that cylinder is experiencing the most detonation. Do any of us on here know why? Surely not. I am willing to bet the Ford engineers do though, hence the TSB However, any semi-intelectual person could probably make a list of possible causes for isolated detonation, which is all I have done. If the cylinder were somehow running leaner than the rest, it could certainly knock before the others. If said cylinder where running 20 deg hotter than the other holes, it could also have the tendancy to knock. If the knock sensor isn't picking up all of the knock activity in that one cylinder, it could certainly be damaged before the other ones.
I am not sure how things work uip there in Austin, but in my eyes, any of those issues certainly qualify as a design flaw. I am not saying the 5.0 is a garbage motor by any strecth of the word. It is obviously pretty kick ass. I am just saying that it probably isn't perfect, and some degree of caution should be taken when getting tuned.

Also, I am not sure why you keep bringing up blower cars and them not failing, but I will reply to that because you are OBVIOUSLY a little slow and cannot figure it out by yourself. I would assume a person with normal deductive reasoning could look at the plausible "design issues" I have mentioned, and answer that question themselves. I seem to have forgotten that you might be a few brewskies short of a six pack.
On a forced inducion, 11.1 compression motor, I would certainly think that the tuners are not altering the knock sensor's sensitivity. The car is going to make a big number anyways so they are not trying to get every ounce of power out of it.
Also, the tuner probably isn't commanding a 13.1 afr. They are likely commanding something in the mid to low 11s, so if the one cylinder did happen to be a little leaner, it is not so close to the edge that it cause broken shit. Also, the extra fuel commanded and richer afr could also be cooling any possible hot spots in the cylinder, so they possibility of a hotter cylinder could also be minimized. Lucky for you that I have been practicing my spoon feeding lately. Hopefully the info seeps into some of that vacant space that would be otherwise occupied by a functioning human brain. The funny thing is we are saying nealry the same thing, but you just cannot link "# 8 being more sensative to a LEAN tune" (your words), as being said flaw. All of the things I have mentioned are the "WHY" that cylinder could be more sansative, and they are certainly not ideal. IE, they are FLAWS in the DESIGN. These flaws in the design could also be called desgn flaws.
Do you see how this reasoning thing works now?

As far as meeting you at SAR, I am not sure how that would be backing up anything I have said. In fact, I would be contradicting myself since I said before I think drag racing is lame. Could I order some bigs and littles and some control arms and meet you out there. Sure. Would it be worth it to show that a modded GT500 with ~130 more whp is faster than your bolt on 5.0? Certianly not to me......I would rather put that money towards a bigger blower and get squirely at highway speeds than try to get my 60' time down. :burnout:

 

[2011 gtcs]

haha I love how crazy and pissed off this is making everyone oke:

 

[wbt]

First of all, you are a total idiot. Go back to my first post in this thread and read it very slowly. You might want to put your thinking cap on as well. You should probably take breaks as well because I don't want you to hurt yourself.

Ok. now that you are back, do you see how I said "when safe gaurds are modified". What was happeneing is some tuners were either turning down the sensativity of the knock sensors, or disabling them all togehter.

Regurgitating more of what I have said....did you bother reading the links I provided the first time? Doesn't appear to be you did.

Some of the cars might have been running too lean as well. While those are definitely big issues, why then is the detonation and broken pistons only limited to one cylinder?

We are all waiting for your answer since you know this is a design flaw.....

Again, anyone who is not an idiot would say it is becasue that cylinder is experiencing the most detonation. Do any of us on here know why? Surely not. I am willing to bet the Ford engineers do though, hence the TSB

They released the TSB as protection against shitty tuners. You can't seem to digest this. Go read the links I provided.....

However, any semi-intelectual person could probably make a list of possible causes for isolated detonation, which is all I have done. If the cylinder were somehow running leaner than the rest, it could certainly knock before the others. If said cylinder where running 20 deg hotter than the other holes, it could also have the tendancy to knock. If the knock sensor isn't picking up all of the knock activity in that one cylinder, it could certainly be damaged before the other ones.

Must be the design flaw....

I am not sure how things work uip there in Austin, but in my eyes, any of those issues certainly qualify as a design flaw. I am not saying the 5.0 is a garbage motor by any strecth of the word. It is obviously pretty kick ass. I am just saying that it probably isn't perfect, and some degree of caution should be taken when getting tuned.

When you have tuned and datalogged one and understand WTF you are looking at, then come on in and have an intelligent discussion about it. You are placing yourself in the same category as RedCandyAss.

Also, I am not sure why you keep bringing up blower cars and them not failing, but I will reply to that because you are OBVIOUSLY a little slow and cannot figure it out by yourself. I would assume a person with normal deductive reasoning could look at the plausible "design issues" I have mentioned, and answer that question themselves. I seem to have forgotten that you might be a few brewskies short of a six pack.
On a forced inducion, 11.1 compression motor, I would certainly think that the tuners are not altering the knock sensor's sensitivity. The car is going to make a big number anyways so they are not trying to get every ounce of power out of it.
Also, the tuner probably isn't commanding a 13.1 afr. They are likely commanding something in the mid to low 11s, so if the one cylinder did happen to be a little leaner, it is not so close to the edge that it cause broken shit. Also, the extra fuel commanded and richer afr could also be cooling any possible hot spots in the cylinder, so they possibility of a hotter cylinder could also be minimized. Lucky for you that I have been practicing my spoon feeding lately. Hopefully the info seeps into some of that vacant space that would be otherwise occupied by a functioning human brain. The funny thing is we are saying nealry the same thing, but you just cannot link "# 8 being more sensative to a LEAN tune" (your words), as being said flaw. All of the things I have mentioned are the "WHY" that cylinder could be more sansative, and they are certainly not ideal. IE, they are FLAWS in the DESIGN. These flaws in the design could also be called desgn flaws.
Do you see how this reasoning thing works now?

You own a power adder car and don't understand that it creates more cylinder pressure/heat than a N/A car yet those motors seem to survive on the 5.0 platform? This would make one more prone to failure if heat was the problem. You imply that cylinder cooling is a potential issue along with lean conditions, (insert shitty tune), etc... Go datalog some 5.0 N/A cars and let us know how #8 has a design flaw with cooling, A/F, etc. compared to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.....show us some data. Guess what....it boils down to detonation. Go read about it, determine what causes it and then start to narrow it down.

Here is a starter for you: Kennedys Dynotune- Nitrous and Blower Piston Tech Tips

As far as meeting you at SAR, I am not sure how that would be backing up anything I have said. In fact, I would be contradicting myself since I said before I think drag racing is lame. Could I order some bigs and littles and some control arms and meet you out there. Sure. Would it be worth it to show that a modded GT500 with ~130 more whp is faster than your bolt on 5.0? Certianly not to me......I would rather put that money towards a bigger blower and get squirely at highway speeds than try to get my 60' time down. :burnout:

You would rather endanger everyone else on the road by driving like a dickhead. Fits your personality to a tee. When you are ready to grow up, come out to the track for some schooling.

Can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves. I am done entertaining your garbage. May want to spell check next time if you are going to step beyond the line. It makes you appear uneducated and further detracts from you as an individual.

 

[Nathan'sTsi]

Regurgitating more of what I have said....did you bother reading the links I provided the first time? Doesn't appear to be you did.



We are all waiting for your answer since you know this is a design flaw.....



They released the TSB as protection against shitty tuners. You can't seem to digest this. Go read the links I provided.....



Must be the design flaw....



When you have tuned and datalogged one and understand WTF you are looking at, then come on in and have an intelligent discussion about it. You are placing yourself in the same category as RedCandyAss.



You own a power adder car and don't understand that it creates more cylinder pressure/heat than a N/A car yet those motors seem to survive on the 5.0 platform? This would make one more prone to failure if heat was the problem. You imply that cylinder cooling is a potential issue along with lean conditions, (insert shitty tune), etc... Go datalog some 5.0 N/A cars and let us know how #8 has a design flaw with cooling, A/F, etc. compared to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.....show us some data. Guess what....it boils down to detonation. Go read about it, determine what causes it and then start to narrow it down.

Here is a starter for you: Kennedys Dynotune- Nitrous and Blower Piston Tech Tips



You would rather endanger everyone else on the road by driving like a dickhead. Fits your personality to a tee. When you are ready to grow up, come out to the track for some schooling.

Can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves. I am done entertaining your garbage. May want to spell check next time if you are going to step beyond the line. It makes you appear uneducated and further detracts from you as an individual.

You seem to be unable to link facts together to form a plausible explanation, or unwilling to because it will admitting you have the reading comprehension of a fifth grader.

You agree that cylinder seems to be more sensative "to a lean condition", which I infer you mean that it seems to be more knock prone than the other cylinders when lean. Since you seem to be so adimant that it is not a design issue in the motor, I would like to hear your hypothesis as to what is causing it. It shouldn't be too difficult, as you like to portray yourself as some sort of expert tuner with coutless hours of datalogging. I would also hope since you believe this experice to be relevant, that it would include logging individual cylinder af ratios, as wel as individual cyinder knock activity and knock retard on the coyote motor. Somehting tells me you have no such data, and your "expertise" is limited to running the data cable form your SCT to a laptop.

I am very familair with tuning, datalogging and forced induction applications, obviously more so than you if you cannot make some pretty basic deductions form the available data. My last toy was completely self built and tuned and I have tuned a half dozen cars that mader over 200whp per liter.

All I am doing is offering a possible "why" the problem is always associated with no 8. Unless the tuners magically have invidual cylinder fuel commands or cylinder specific spark curves, then there HAS to be a reason the problems are isloated to the one cylinder. If the tune were soley to blame, the failures would be all over the map. You have yet to offer a plausible explantion why the failures are isolated to number 8. Just just try to take snipets of my posts out of contect and say they are wrong.

Take your time reading this part.....maybe I can make it bigger to help it stand out.
If there is nothing in the tune to make one cylinder detonate any more than the others, then there has to be a reason why it is detonating more than the other cylinders. Seeing as I can see why the Ford powertrain engineers would actually want for that to be the case, I would think that it happens to be a design flaw. Maybe it is indeed intentional though, so it might not be a flaw after all!!!

For the record, I mentioned the tune as the reason these problems are coming to light in my very first post in this thread (which you said was wrong). It is you who has been repeating what I initially wrote. I KNOW it comes down to detonation. I have already said that you ass clown. I can't even count the number of times I have already told you that. I just went further and offered a theory of why the problems are located on the one cylinder. You did no such thing. You just blame the tune and say all else is fine. I suppose the failures on the same cylinder are just a big coincidence.

Instead of blindly coming out and saying someone else is wrong, why don't you make a valid arguemnt for yourslef, instead of posting some dumb ass link. I can see how you would avoid that though, given your previous posts. I frankly don't think you are capable of it.

ALso, please don't drive faster than 70mph down I35 for your next trip to SA. I would hate for you to endanger the law abiding citizens.....:bs:

 

[Nathan'sTsi]

Can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves. I am done entertaining your garbage. May want to spell check next time if you are going to step beyond the line. It makes you appear uneducated and further detracts from you as an individual.

YOU may want to look into these wonderful little things called pronouns.
List of Pronouns

THEY do a remarkable job at helping EVERYBOBY understand YOUR post.

I would say that your failure to use them makes you look stupid, but then all of your other stupid comments would feel left out since I didn't point them out individually!!

 

[dro]

I say it has to do with cooling. Give it some time and people will come out with a 'cooling mod' just like on the termi's.

 

[MyStang2010GB]

Can we get the two "smart" guys to have their "I'm the bigger internet smart-guy" argument on PMs?? That way we can read thru this without all their bullshit arguing??

Just a thought.... take your internet saber dick fighting behind closed doors.... maybe

 

[Loosescrews]

Just a thought.... take your internet saber dick fighting behind closed doors.... maybe

:lol:

 

[DWalker]

With the ratio of cars with #8 issues to the total produced, I'd take my chances with a good tune any day of the week. I'd like to see the actual total number of cars with the #8 issues, guarantee its a very small percentage.

 

[ViciousJay]

With the ratio of cars with #8 issues to the total produced, I'd take my chances with a good tune any day of the week. I'd like to see the actual total number of cars with the #8 issues, guarantee its a very small percentage.

this issue set next to the trans issue is less common and probably an issue of bad gas, too aggressive tuning. Maybe there needs to be a revision to heads much like to cobras needed

 

[ac427cobra]

This is NOT Smackdown, so knock the crap off in this thread. :nono:

If you can't have an intelligent conversation in here GTFO. :idea: