ALCOHOL/WATER INJECTION??

[ROADWARRIORSVT]

I'm considering an alcohol/water injection kit for the 03. I'm running a 2.80 upper (RR) and a Metco 6# lower. I'm sure in overspinning the H#!! out of the Heaton so I was thinking maybe the alky/h2o would help.

Yes, I know nitrous works great too, but I'm kinda strapped for funds, plus trying to save for a KB.

Anyone have experience with the alky/h2o on an 03 OR SHALL I BE THE GUINEA PIG???

 

[Buster]

I have a lot experience with alky, ran 24 psi on the syclone burning 91 octane. Best run on 91 was an 11.2@124, best run with race gas was 11.0@122.

I built my system for a few hundred buck. It consisted of two hobb switches, a shurflo pump, 4-1mm aquamist nozzles, some fittings and a lot of methanol. I dumped all four nozzles in at 2psi, then using a wideband 02 logged through the stock ecm, I made correction to fuel delivery.

I've only owned my 03 for about three weeks, so I haven't set it up yet, but if your looking for any info on nozzles, pumps, and alky I should be able to help.

 

[CobraBri]

Originally posted by ROADWARRIORSVT
I'm considering an alcohol/water injection kit for the 03. I'm running a 2.80 upper (RR) and a Metco 6# lower. I'm sure in overspinning the H#!! out of the Heaton so I was thinking maybe the alky/h2o would help.

Yes, I know nitrous works great too, but I'm kinda strapped for funds, plus trying to save for a KB.

Anyone have experience with the alky/h2o on an 03 OR SHALL I BE THE GUINEA PIG???

for a car with a positive displacement blower you really need a gradual delivery because of the immediate boost at low rpm. I think that dumping the full hit of water/alky (triggered by a hobbs switch) at low rpm will bog the engine. You really need a system that builds up the alky/water hit based on MAF voltage. I'm building my own system, but you can buy one for $500 or so...smc I think sells one.

 

[ROADWARRIORSVT]

maybe an RPM activated switch instead of boost activated? Thanks for the replies.

 

[CobraBri]

Originally posted by ROADWARRIORSVT
maybe an RPM activated switch instead of boost activated? Thanks for the replies.

The MAF voltage based system would still be better imho. What if one guy's car doesn't flow as much air through the intake as another guy's car at the same rpm. A system based on MAF would be much more exact.

 

[Buster]

Well, if it's chipped properly it defiantly won't bog the motor. Guys get really tricky with their systems, using progressive controller and all, IMO keep it simple. Dump in the alky and chip tune the fuel. You'll get a butt load of torque, and make great power.

 

[ROADWARRIORSVT]

Originally posted by Buster
IMO keep it simple. Dump in the alky and chip tune the fuel.

This would be me. Simple.

 

[Poisonous Mods]

Water Injection works with out a Chip & will not bog the Engine.
It depends on how much of a shot is being sprayed into the motor.


Im not using it but just stating the fact on what id seen on an 03Cobra.

 

[Buster]

An 03 cobra, gmc syclone, buick GN, and Supra all respond to alky injection the same, its not rocket science. If you spray enought to make a noticable difference it will bog the motor without chip tuning. I've done hundreds of track tests/datalogs.

 

[ROADWARRIORSVT]

Originally posted by Buster
I've done hundreds of track tests/datalogs.

So can I add you to my "buddy list"?!!!!! So if the engine were to bog, I should change to a smaller/finer nozzle, correct?:idea:

 

[Buster]

First you need to decided what your going to spray.

Water works to help control cylinder temps, but kind of works against itself because it doesn't burn. If your going to spray water you maybe able squeak out a few more pounds of boost and a few more degrees of timing. If you chose water I'd stick with 1-1mm nozzle otherwise you'll start breaking up, losing spark.

If you decide to spray methanol you'll be able to spray a lot more, maybe 2-1mm nozzles. The nice thing about methanol is you'll make considerable more power with the same amount of boost, plus you'll able to run even more boost and timing.

Once you decide how much your going to spray then you can pick your pump, most guys run the shurflos dead head, no pressure cut off switch, this prevents the pump from surging, but the problem is you need to match up the pump with the correct nozzles.

Shurflo sells a 1 gpm, and a 1.8 gpm. The 1.8 works great for 4 nozzles or more, and the 1 gpm works good for 2 nozzle systems. If you run a 1.8 shurflo dead head against 1 or 2 nozzles it'll likely explode due to extremely high pressure.

The next thing you need to decide is where your going to spray, spraying before the turbo was always a no-no because the small water droplets hitting the compressor blade at 80,000 RPM would destroy the fins, but in our case the compressor blades turn at a much slower rate. I'm not positive but I think you should be able to spray before the blower. This will help distribute the alky, plus keep the blower ice cold.
Now if you decide to spray before the blower you might want to consider using denatured (ethanol) because its much less corrosive.

 

[ROADWARRIORSVT]

Buster, I appreciate yopur informative reply. Lots to think about now:beer:

 

[CobraBri]

Originally posted by Buster
If you spray enought to make a noticable difference it will bog the motor without chip tuning. I've done hundreds of track tests/datalogs.

:dw: Uhh, so like I said, it might bog right???

 

[CobraBri]

Originally posted by ROADWARRIORSVT
Buster, I appreciate yopur informative reply. Lots to think about now:beer:

I found a sight that has a simple DIY kit that specifies a nozzle that will atomize the mixture...so no droplets.

I would like to see evidence of a simple on/off system working on a positive displacement blower car before I install one. I can't see how a large single turbo Supra that produces an enormous power spike at relatively high rpm (perfect for a hobbs switch activated system) and runs great with a simple on/off system necessarily means that an Eaton blown Cobra would run great using the same set-up.

No offense to anybody, but the cars seem very different, and I wonder if a full hit of water/alky at 2500 rpm would not cause the car to bog. Seems a progressive controller would be better suited to our application IMHO. Now, if my concerns are unwarranted, and the simple on/off system works, then I would definitely get that.

 

[stangin]

Originally posted by CobraBri
I found a sight that has a simple DIY kit that specifies a nozzle that will atomize the mixture...so no droplets.

Where, link?

 

[CobraBri]

Originally posted by stangin
Where, link?

http://home.att.net/~stevemon/AlcoholInjMod.html

 

[Buster]

Originally posted by CobraBri
:dw: Uhh, so like I said, it might bog right???

Try reading what I wrote first. It will bog if you use enough to make a considerable difference without chip tuning.

 

[Buster]

Originally posted by CobraBri

I would like to see evidence of a simple on/off system working on a positive displacement blower car before I install one. I can't see how a large single turbo Supra that produces an enormous power spike at relatively high rpm (perfect for a hobbs switch activated system) and runs great with a simple on/off system necessarily means that an Eaton blown Cobra would run great using the same set-up.

No offense to anybody, but the cars seem very different, and I wonder if a full hit of water/alky at 2500 rpm would not cause the car to bog. Seems a progressive controller would be better suited to our application IMHO. Now, if my concerns are unwarranted, and the simple on/off system works, then I would definitely get that.

If you start spraying alky at 2500 rpms you would simply pull fuel out of the chip at 2500. Basically your running pump gas when at cruise and idle, and substituting in alky at wot.

The only problem with the cobra is there are no safety nets to be setup, with turbo cars you can link a second Hobbs switch into the alky line, and use the alky to activate your boost controller. With the cobra, if we have a pump failure the motors most likely toast.

 

[03CobraBro]

Thats the latest craze with the Grand National guys... My dads been thinking about getting that. Never concidered it for my Cobra, but if it works well enough, I just might have to check into it.