4.6 reBUILD to 4.75 Stroker.....help me out

[Dasaliac03]

Its been a few weeks since i was last on here but ALOT has changed. Sold my '97 cobra and bought a '01 gt with a Kenne Bell supercharger system and a few minor mods on it. I knew the stock gt bottom end wouldnt hold that kind of power for much longer, but i only had the car 3 days before all hell broke loose! Spun rod bearing, booger'd my crank pretty good, and those rods werent worth a cuss anyways. After much debation, im finally on the route to having the car back on the road.

Ordering a MMR 900se shorlt block withe ARP head studs and main studs, upgraded side bolts, windage tray, timing guides and chain, and it will be completely forged. MMR is claiming it will hold 1000hp when im done but i dont plan to push it that far.

What compression ratio should i go for? I plan to run anywhere between a 12-16lb pulley on the blower, with stage 2 cam and 50 shot of nitrous coming after mustang week. All on 93 octane, just for daily driving purposes.

Not even going to lie, ive never done anything this extensive but i plan on doing this completely on my own, with maybe a spare tool hand or two. To the guys who have already done it, how hard is this? Ive got all the time in the world so that dont bother me at all and i do have a wide variety of tools and access to just about any other tool i will need.

And now for the big question.........after i ship MMR my heads to install, what else will i need to be able to drive? Im talking about anything and everything besides 6-7qts of oil and the patience while breaking the motor in.

Ill start another thread soon with more about the car, but heres a few pics just to start. Paid just shy of 8k for it.

Thanks to anyone and everyone who posts info and/or helps me out!
:bowdown:

 

[Dasaliac03]

Car currently has Kenne Bell boost-a-pump, BBK long tube headers, BBK o/r H pipe, flowmaster 40's with dumps (YUCK), KB after cooler, KB Cold air intake fenderwell kit, Eibach pro springs, welded subframe connectors, 42lb fuel injectors, steeda short throw, and a few other things im forgetting im sure!

 

[coldair]

your car is the definition of sleeper! nice pickup!

 

[tobynt]

What compression ratio should i go for? I plan to run anywhere between a 12-16lb pulley on the blower, with stage 2 cam and 50 shot of nitrous coming after mustang week. All on 93 octane, just for daily driving purposes.


And now for the big question.........after i ship MMR my heads to install, what else will i need to be able to drive? Im talking about anything and everything besides 6-7qts of oil and the patience while breaking the motor in.

For question number one...I personally wouldn't go over 9.5 at 12lbs of boost and 9.0 at about 15lbs of boost. I would definitely back off to about 8.5 at anything over 15lbs. That's just my opinion... Just have to remember, every time you lower your compression ratio...you lower the potential for power at the same boost level. But, you also open up the potential to raise boost pressure and gain more power. If it was my engine...I would go ahead and have it set up for about 9.0 (or ballpark of 8.8-9.2) and shoot for 16lbs of boost...which will probably be about 13-14lbs in your power band and a peak of 16lbs at the higher RMP when its time to shift.

For question number two....Oh, gezzz, where to start. Um, in short...anything that was on the engine before now...that is not on the engine when you get it from MMR. Sounds like you are ordering a shortblock and sending them you heads so effectively you will be getting a "long block" back from them. From a component stand point...you will be receiving an engine that has all of its internal moving parts assembled. This will leave you having to assemble the rest of the engine. Timing cover, oil pan, Flywheel, Either clutch or torque converter...depending on your transmission. Intake (lower and blower). Valve covers...so forth and so on.

 

[Dasaliac03]

Thanks for the replies!

Assembly wise I should be fine, I just wanted to make sure I have everything on hand when I start to put the new motor in. All the gaskets, fuel lines, etc. Will I need an aftermarket fuel rail?

As far as compression goes, I will let the engine builders tell me what they recommend. My maim concern is just running pump gas 93 octane. I have access to 100 but that's just too expensive for DD purposes. With a stage 2 cam and 16lbs if boost, what should my HP look like?

 

[Dasaliac03]

Port and polish my heads before I send them?

 

[tobynt]

well, a compression ratio of 10.0 with ported heads and a nominal 14lbs of boost with your cams will give you an approximate Flywheel hp of 650 and 675 on torque. That should put you in the ball park of 552 rwhp and 574 rwtq. (really depends on what your tune is)

Either way...with a 9.0-10.0 with your set up and ported heads, you will be somewhere in the 500's with horse power and torque. Just really depends on what kind of tune you run in it. Also, I don't know if you have thought about it or not....but, you will more then likely have to start addressing your fueling system. depending on the boost and tune.......you will be running very close to maxing out the duty cycle on those injectors at the level. I'm also not sure if the boost a pump will will be enough to push the stock pump to support those levels either.

 

[tobynt]

Also, now that I'm looking a little closer at you blower. Is that an older 1.7L or a 2.2L blower?

 

[Dasaliac03]

well, a compression ratio of 10.0 with ported heads and a nominal 14lbs of boost with your cams will give you an approximate Flywheel hp of 650 and 675 on torque. That should put you in the ball park of 552 rwhp and 574 rwtq. (really depends on what your tune is)

Either way...with a 9.0-10.0 with your set up and ported heads, you will be somewhere in the 500's with horse power and torque. Just really depends on what kind of tune you run in it. Also, I don't know if you have thought about it or not....but, you will more then likely have to start addressing your fueling system. depending on the boost and tune.......you will be running very close to maxing out the duty cycle on those injectors at the level. I'm also not sure if the boost a pump will will be enough to push the stock pump to support those levels either.

Yea I figured. I'm sure the guy tuning my car will tell me that while he's tuning it.

So with a compression ratio 10 or lower I can stay on pump gas?

 

[Dasaliac03]

Also, now that I'm looking a little closer at you blower. Is that an older 1.7L or a 2.2L blower?

I don't really know. I've tried to figure it out numerous times, all it says is TS series for the model, non-intercooled, and it's doesn't whine as loud as some of the 1.7's I've seen.

 

[tobynt]

Yea I figured. I'm sure the guy tuning my car will tell me that while he's tuning it.

So with a compression ratio 10 or lower I can stay on pump gas?

Can't really answer that question with a simple yes or no. A lot of things come in to play with a response of yes or no...but, with a good tune. You can push mid 500 rwhp on 10.1 compression at 14lbs of nominal boost. But all other things have to be equal to support an engine running 10.0 compression and stuffing 14lbs of boost down it. Fuel supply has to be right, timing has to be correct...AFR really needs to be spot on.

I don't really know. I've tried to figure it out numerous times, all it says is TS series for the model, non-intercooled, and it's doesn't whine as loud as some of the 1.7's I've seen.

This is where we will definitely back up. This really would explain why the engine turned to mush. I have no idea what size pulley you have on that blower but it looks a lot smaller then stock. A non-intercooled positive displacement blower pushing anything more then 7-8 lbs of boost is a very bad idea. Much less wanting to push one up to 12-16 lb range. Even with a twin screw...I wouldn't want to see what those Intake Air Temp's would be.

It would probably be a good idea to give Kenne Bell a call and give them the S/N of the blower so they can tell you which one you have. TS...from what I understand just simply means "twin Screw"

 

[Dasaliac03]

It's the 1.7

 

[Dasaliac03]

And yes, its Intercooled.


Its going to be about 6 weeks before my motor is done, no telling how long after that it will take me to get it in and everything situated.


What oil do you guys recommend using? I know everyone has a personal preference these days
What spark plugs should i go with? Brand new set of NGK in my origional motor now
Keep the ignition coils i have now or junk them and buy new? 3 of them are new anyways
What coolant should i go with? Going to flush the radiator out good while the engines not in there

 

[Mike@TF]

plugs used tr6's...your going to be killing that little 1.7kb its going to be pumping out nothing but heat..upgrade that thing and you will need a fuel system..

 

[Dasaliac03]

plugs used tr6's...your going to be killing that little 1.7kb its going to be pumping out nothing but heat..upgrade that thing and you will need a fuel system..

Upgrade to what? As in buy another supercharger? HA. Just spent a decent chunk on the mmr 900se 4.75 stroker and some extras, can't really drop another 5k at the moment. Guy in town has a saleen supercharger that he took off his 04 saleen that I could get for next to nothing, but would that be any better?


Also, I have what was said to be a 4.6-5.0 stroker kit laying in the shop, forged rods, and what I think is a 6 bolt cobra crank I need to sell. Needs a set of pistons. Think anyone on here would be interested?

 

[Mike@TF]

nah the older saleen blower is worst that the kb....

what are you going to do for fuel? do the compression around 9:5:1..what are you doing for heads and cams also? or just going to clean up the heads..put in springs and some blower cams?

 

[tobynt]

+! with above. The only Saleen blower that would be an upgrade from what you have would be the Series V (series 5). And that blower is very difficult to find. If by chance you did find one, while the blower itself is about equal to a KB 2.2 blower. It has to use the stock Saleen lower manifold. So, it would still require work to make it an upgrade from what you have. If the blower your looking at is a series IV (which more then likely it is). Its still a good blower and it is a twinscrew blower. All of the other blowers Saleen put on our cars before the series IV and V are just Eaton 90 blowers.

Even the Saleen series IV blower (as a comparison to what you currently have) would be around a 1.6L

So, you would be trading down in that event.

The blower you have is a very good blower. It's just not built to help push 500+ hp at the tires if that's your goal.

You could always call Kenne Bell and ask them if you could just swap out the head unit itself for a 2.2 or 2.8 and still use your lower intake manifold.

 

[Dasaliac03]

+! with above. The only Saleen blower that would be an upgrade from what you have would be the Series V (series 5). And that blower is very difficult to find. If by chance you did find one, while the blower itself is about equal to a KB 2.2 blower. It has to use the stock Saleen lower manifold. So, it would still require work to make it an upgrade from what you have. If the blower your looking at is a series IV (which more then likely it is). Its still a good blower and it is a twinscrew blower. All of the other blowers Saleen put on our cars before the series IV and V are just Eaton 90 blowers.

Even the Saleen series IV blower (as a comparison to what you currently have) would be around a 1.6L

So, you would be trading down in that event.

The blower you have is a very good blower. It's just not built to help push 500+ hp at the tires if that's your goal.

You could always call Kenne Bell and ask them if you could just swap out the head unit itself for a 2.2 or 2.8 and still use your lower intake manifold.

Yea my goal right off the bat is a safely tuned low 500hp street car.


As for cams, STOCK until after mustang week. Heads.......port and polish $850, I'll save my pennies and just buy the trickflow heads I want for 1200$ when I do cams.

 

[Stanger00]

trickflow heads cost a little more than $1200.

Also, I dont see a stock 2 valve head and stock cam, 1.7kb supercharger going over 500. I'm sure it will hit 470ish but the IAT's are going to skyrocket if you spin it over 14psi. Maybe if you get a custom intake made for it you may get a little more power but the heads and cams will be the next problem.

 

[Dasaliac03]

Yea, agreed.

Pushing my budget pretty close, but atleast a stage 2 cam and some head work will come early this summer. Spent over 10k within the past few months so I need to tone it down a little ha