3.800 stroker crank?

[jtcstrat]

Has anyone used this? i know the norm is the 3.75 stroker crank

I have on in my possession and was going to run it, just dont see anyone else that has?

opinions? comments? concerns?

It says on kelloggs site it uses the same connection rod length, but not on the other site? I have the 3.800 crank and the 5.850" connecting rods, exactly whats listed in that site.


My engine builder that builds saleen 3v motors uses these all day long, but iver never seen much about the 3.800 stroke.

Is going to be put in my 5 over teksid block. turbo car.

KP Crankshafts - Kellogg High Performance Crankshafts - Jackson Michigan

Saleen Rotating Assembly Upgrade 4.6L to 5.0L High Compression

 

[jtcstrat]

anyone?

 

[Pro SNIVELER]

according to that saleen build at the bottom......3.800 x 5.85 rods ended up only .0007 below the deck. a rod .15 longer 3.8 x 6.0 would send the piston up above the deck into the head, or well into the chamber bending plenty of valves with the same deck Height 8.937.

 

[jtcstrat]

ahh, so thats done for a reason, i got ya. what is a normal stroker crank or non stroker crank below the deck height?

 

[Pro SNIVELER]

4.6 Liter Ford Engine Cylinder Blocks


maybe some good info, you can browse thru and read some of it on that website. im not much on mod motors, but if your teksid block is the same deck height as the one saleen used(8.937) then using a 3.8 crank, and a 6.0 rod will send the piston up out of the hole. using a custom shorter piston will likely send you into issues with your ring lands crossing into where the wristpin goes, i wouldnt boost on those personally.

kellogg makes a nice product, but from a bit of reading it looks like you'd still have issues with a stock crank and 6.0 rods. use the 5.8 rod and give yourself the ability to use a piston with correctly spaced ring lands. this is an example below of a 3.66 stroked stocker with a 6.0 rod.


Stroking the stock crankshaft is accomplished by offset grinding the rod journal to increase the stroke of the crankshaft. This requires the use of a different rod and piston assembly to maintain the correct deck clearance and a reasonable rod ratio. We have ground the crankshaft rod journals undersize to 2 inches, which allows the use of a 6.00 inch rod with the Brand X (Chevy) small-block bearings. The piston must be designed to accommodate the longer rod, so the compression distance is reduced from 1.22 inch to 1.08 inch. The pin ends up so high on the piston that the lower surface of the oil ring land is partially removed in order to assemble the pin onto the piston. A support rail is installed on the piston, supporting the oil ring rail in this area. When the crank is offset ground, care must be exercised in the fillet area. The stock crankshaft has a rolled fillet, which is recessed below the surface of the journal. The crank grinder needs to produce a radius that does not contact the edge of the rod bearing while the crank rotates, yet is as generous a radius as is practical in order to maintain as much strength and structural integrity as possible. To date, we have not had any durability issues with cranks that were offset ground. Using offset grinding, we are able to increase the stroke by .120 inch to arrive at a 3.66-inch stroke.

 

[jtcstrat]

so you dont see an issue running this crank and those rods, just need to order correct pistons. its a teksid out of a mark8 so im sure its normal deck height. As long as i dont run a longer rod i should be fine.

thanks for all the info.

 

[jtcstrat]

I just didnt see anyone running a 3.800 stroker crank. i didnt know if there was a reason or what not. i got the crank and rods for next to nothing, literally.

 

[Pro SNIVELER]

dont take my word as the final one, im more into pushrod motors but they all work roughly the same. 347's used to be unreliable with a 5.4 rod because it did the same thing to the ring land and wrist pin. the link you posted about the saleen kit just got me to looking, and the piston coming -.0007 below the deck with a 5.85 rod just leads me to believe a 6.0 x 3.8 would only work with a piston made shorter to remain below deck or flush. making a shorter piston is where you run into the bottom ringland intersecting the wrist pin, which will lead you into the motor not lasting or burning a ton of oil.

 

[LITTLEMAGS]

I am building the same stroker soon with John at MP performance. I have the 3.8 crank and just bought 5.85 rods and spoke to John and he said with the correct piston it would work fine.

this is what he told me
3.80" stroke
5.850" rod length
piston cd of 1.185"
.012 in the hole
9 cc dish with intake notches = 9.8 to 1

 

[jtcstrat]

are intake notches really needed?

you are a 4v, but i am going to be a 2v with the new TFS heads.

the trick is getting the right piston made. most likely have to run the ring into the wrist pin

 

[LITTLEMAGS]

are intake notches really needed?

you are a 4v, but i am going to be a 2v with the new TFS heads.

the trick is getting the right piston made. most likely have to run the ring into the wrist pin

with the cams Iam running yes i will need them.

 

[jtcstrat]

what cams?

 

[LITTLEMAGS]

cams are being spec'd by John...after we flow the heads. I am still waiting on cam specs. STILL waiting on pistons from Diamond too...haha

 

[LITTLEMAGS]

cams will be custom spec'd by John. He is redoing my heads so when those are flowed we will spec the cams. The cams will be pretty aggressive for sure..I have a number in mind I want to make (HP wise) and John assures me we can get there.

 

[orange2004cobra]

Hello.
My shop builds 3.625 stroke {reground ranks} 3.625 bore 6" rod combos all the time.
Any stroker piston will work.
We also build our long rod engines with 6.126 rods.
{we were in 5.0 in 2008 because of it}
We have actually done a 3.83 stroke reground crank build before.

You wont have to get custom pistons made, with the 5.850 rods you can find a stroker piston easily.

We have never had an oiling issue and/or failure from using the stroker piston design, and in my opinion its actually better than the std modular piston design.

{very similar to the new coyote pistons design actually.}

Now if you really want to step up, get you an iron 3.70 big bore frpp block for 1k and 3.70 Big Bore stroker pistons and be THE MAN!!!

{I have 2 of these combos being assembled currently, one for my own street car, and another for a very good customer that wll be running twin 60mm turbos and the new trick flow heads {ported by us}

AND for you trick flow guys out there, TF is offering their heads in CNC versions starting in june..

Have fun with your build and, DRIVE SAFE...!

 

[jtcstrat]

whats the diff between the current TFS 2v heads and the CNC?

 

[orange2004cobra]

One is "as cast" and the other features cnc porting to increase flow.

 

[Angus]

Any updates on the 3.800" crankshaft in your engine???

I'm in the process of planning and buying parts for a new short block for my Mach.
The engine will be a mild N/A build with roughly 11.0 - 11.25 compression. I would also like the option to add a little spray down the road if I choose.
I already have a pair of '03 Cobra/Mach heads with FR500 valvetrain. They were put together by Al and were milled to provide approximately .25 higher compression with stock parts.

I found someone local who has a Kellogg 3.800" forged stroker crankshaft (brand new) for a decent price. I did some research on this crank (Kellogg part # AA3800X56B1) but can find little to no information about (including builds made using it) it except for basic specs and this thread. Also, pretty much ALL the information I did find on stroker cranks referred to the 3.75" part and pistons/rods that go with it.

So my questions are:

Is a 3.800" stroke crankshaft worth buying and building a naturally-aspirated engine with?

If so, where can I find (flat-top) pistons made for the 3.800" crank and 5.85" long stroker rods?

Does a 3.75" stroker crank have benefits (better rod angle, more reliable, quieter, better oil control, etc) that make it a better choice?

I'm on a moderate budget here, so I'd rather buy off-the-shelf parts if possible.

Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated! :beer:

 

[super98snake]

pistons

i have this kit in my block and im just waiting on piston i have been for a few months i have been told no one makes this pistons you have to order them special and have them be made i am putting this kit in a brand new ford racing block with 4v heads with a t70 turbo on it so idk if it just b/c of my setup tht i need pistons to be made and with the dish that i has to be so i can run 9.5:1 compression but if you find anyone that has these pistons in stock please pm me

 

[no cigar]

Sorry to revive this but I'm going to begin piecing togther my build and was wondering about the pistons for this crank as well as the rods. I know NASVT mentioned in another thread that Manley has 5.800 rods but in this one I'm reading that the pistons can be made to work with a 5.85" stroker rod. WHich is the better scenario? Seems to me that the manley rods being off the shelf would be better financially because you wouldn't have to run a custom piston. Thoughts?