1998 Cobra Suspension Upgrade Sequence

[BigTerminator]

Hi everyone, new to to the forum, just bought a bad ass Cobra and I'd like some advice on suspension.

What order of upgrades is best for the suspension?

It is a daily driver but I want this thing to carve corners, ride quality isn't that important to me.

I was thinking of doing H&R Race Springs with KYB AGX Rear shocks. Question is can I leave the front struts stock until I get the money to do those. Or would it be better to do springs with an Eibach Sway Bar Kit then do shocks and struts together later on? I definitely want to do springs first, question is what would be best to do next.

Ultimately my suspension would be H&R Race Springs, KYB AGX Shocks and Struts, Eibach Sway Bar Kit, Sub Frame Connectors.

Thanks for the help!

 

[1BD9D7]

Those H&R race springs give these cars a great low stance, but you will definitely need caster/camber plates to go with them to correct front end alignment. If you lower it and still have oem shocks/struts with some miles on them, your ride quality will be poor. Upgrading shocks/struts will surely help. My '97 has a lot of suspension mods, but never had larger sway bars installed. I do have panhard bar though.

 

[snaked]

With H&R Race springs you *may* need caster camber plates. I am running them with no isos up front and one in the rear and my alignment is great for what I want out of the car. Obviously more negative camber, which sounds like what you want as well. Just make sure the alignment is the same on each side. You should be able to adjust it within your parameters without the CC plates. I am also running 275s without issue up front.

 

[1hot281]

Remember the most important part of a well setup car: Wheels and TIRES. Tires are the only part of the car that touch the ground. Without a proper footprint provided by wide wheels, and nice sticky performance tires, there is only so much a suspension setup can make up for.

That said, once you have good tires on the ground, i'd get:

-Subframe connectors first. (Full length like Maximum Motorsports are fine)
-Springs & shocks/struts (H&R Race are great. Shocks and struts, I'd go Bilstein)
-Caster Camber plates (Maximum Motorsports again, is great here) plus a quality aggressive alignment. (Bumpsteer kit and strut tower brace would also be nice if they will fit in your budget)
-Rear lower control arms.

I wouldn't jump in to sway bars until the rest of the foundation has been laid properly.

 

[BigTerminator]

Well for tires I have sticky 255 front/315 rear NITTO 555's so that definitely isn't a problem. They grip like hell.

I'd love to do the subframe connectors but I don't have a welder yet so that'll be later on.

Right now my cars' stance is awful. The front is very low and my rear is very high. I want those two to balance better to give a more even stance. Caster camber plates probably won't be necessary because the drop is only around 1 inch. If there issues then I will get them. I would prefer to have in spec chamber from the factory just to save wear on tires.

Just to check, if I get springs then it would be HIGHLY recommended to do the shock and struts with them. I know it's better this way it is just that I would need $700.

What role do good control arms play in terms of handling and are they are good bang for the buck upgrade?

 

[digdugdaddy]

1hot281 is spot on with his recommendations.

Pay someone to install them, but you need subframes first more than anything else. MM or the Griggs through the floor should be the only options.

I'd save springs/shock/strut money and just wait and do coil-overs. Spend money smart once, not stupidly twice. But you don't have to change shocks/struts if you just swap springs. Just be prepared for them to wear out quicker.

If you lower the car, no matter how much, you need CC plates. Mustang steering geometry is garbage and more people need to realize you NEED CC plates, not that they are optional.

 

[1hot281]

Well for tires I have sticky 255 front/315 rear NITTO 555's so that definitely isn't a problem. They grip like hell.

I'd love to do the subframe connectors but I don't have a welder yet so that'll be later on.

Pay someone to install them. It's not expensive and it's very much worth it.

Right now my cars' stance is awful. The front is very low and my rear is very high. I want those two to balance better to give a more even stance. Caster camber plates probably won't be necessary because the drop is only around 1 inch. If there issues then I will get them. I would prefer to have in spec chamber from the factory just to save wear on tires.

Caster Camber plates are very much necessary. Simply to dial in the alignment and increase caster beyond stock. Increased caster helps handling characteristics all on its own, even at stock ride height.

Just to check, if I get springs then it would be HIGHLY recommended to do the shock and struts with them. I know it's better this way it is just that I would need $700.

Yes, it is usually recommended to do these together. Stiffer rate lowering springs require a stronger damper to adequately control them over their range of motion. A properly paired setup will be predictable and handle and ride well. Stiff springs on old stock dampers will be overly bouncy, wear the dampers prematurely, and in general ride like crap.

What role do good control arms play in terms of handling and are they are good bang for the buck upgrade?

The rear lower control arms in the mustang 4-link solid axle rear suspension are horrible garbage. Their main job is to locate the rear axle and control its range of motion. The stock stamped steel construction is overly flexible and rubber bushings offer a gross combination of deflection and bind. These allow the rear axle to twist at awkward angles and move in directions it shouldn't, that can create very unpredictable and dangerous handling.

Your best bet is a set of tubular or billet rear control arms... with a nice 2-piece or 3-piece bushing setup on one end, and a spherical bearing on the other. The tubular or billet construction of the arm is stiffer and resists twisting like the stock arms, and the bushing/bearing setup keep the control arm from changing overall length unintentionally by bushing stretch and flex, properly controls the axle's range of motion and alignment with the chassis, yet reduces bind by offering freedom of motion on the spherical bearing end.

If you're on a tight budget, J&M offers a good control arm that nails this setup for around $200. Their Street/Race arms.

See answers above. Also keep a bump steer kit, solid steering rack bushings, and a strut tower brace in mind when you can afford it. All three will help with steering stability and response.

 

[BigTerminator]

Let me know what you guys think of this

1979 2004 Mustang Front and Rear Coil Over Kit Package Lakewood Shocks Struts | eBay

$900 is my MAX budget. Now I could either get this kit or do coil overs in the front and do stiff springs and shocks in the rear. Opinions? And how much better would full coil overs be over good springs, shocks and struts when daily driving and when tearing up corners?

 

[digdugdaddy]

That kit is for drag racing, not handling.

You need to decide what you want to do and go that direction. Do front or rear first, personally I would worry about subframes first, then rear, then the front.

 

[2DXTRM]

$900 is my MAX budget

Keep saving and do it once. Dont limit yourself with an imposed budget. Increase that budget and get the proper parts, even if it takes you an extra couple months.

 

[BigTerminator]

Okay I'll try and save extra, do it around my birthday. Can someone link me to some good kits and how stiff should the coil overs be?

 

[1hot281]

Let me know what you guys think of this

1979 2004 Mustang Front and Rear Coil Over Kit Package Lakewood Shocks Struts | eBay

That kit is for drag racing. Soft dampers and long coil springs are optimized for transfering weight to the rear tires on launch. Your car will handle terrible with it.

$900 is my MAX budget. Now I could either get this kit or do coil overs in the front and do stiff springs and shocks in the rear. Opinions? And how much better would full coil overs be over good springs, shocks and struts when daily driving and when tearing up corners?

Full coilovers in the front are highly beneficial, as removing the spring from its stupid location on the control arm and mounting it to the front strut allows you to run a softer spring rate, which rides better, yet you actually increase the wheel rate, which will handle like you're running extremely stiff springs in the stock location.

For rough reference: with springs in the stock location, wheel rate is roughly 25% of the spring rate. With coilovers, wheel rate is roughly 90% of the spring rate. So, a 750lbs/in spring in the stock location will provide an effective wheel rate around 185lbs/in... but a "soft" 300lbs/in coilover spring rate should provide a wheel rate around 270lbs/in... you would need a lowering spring in the stock location running a spring rate in excess of 1,000lbs/in to come close to the wheel rate of a relatively soft coilover.

So, a stock Ford front spring rate is like 450lbs/in. H&R Race springs start at a 750lbs/in front spring rate. But a quality front coilover can achieve a wheel rate far in excess of what even a 1,000lbs/in spring can, while providing ride quality that feels similar or only slightly stiffer than stock.

This means a pretty comfortable ride, but better stability, control, and grip than most lowering springs could ever provide.

Kits aren't always the best unless you're going with high dollar stuff.

Coilovers also aren't necessary... especially in the rear, where a true coilover is hardly ever found. (Most Mustang coilovers in the rear consist of an adjustable spring perch in the stock location. That's it.) Front coilovers are very beneficial as explained above, but not ideal in your budget.

I would personally get the following:
$135-Maximum Motorsports full length subframe connectors (Bare)
$240-H&R Race springs
$575-Koni Single Adjustable shocks and struts
$200-Maximum Motorsports Caster Camber plates (Black)
$250-Maximum Motorsports Heavy-Duty rear lower control arms (standard, non-adjustable)

add around $400 for a front coilover conversion. (Depending on hardware provided. But a complete setup with springs is usually north of $300)

This will run you around $1400 without coilovers. Around $1700 with front coilover conversion. You can save maybe $50 to $100 bucks here or there by buying other brand names, like the J&M "street/race" lower control arms I mentioned early for $200... and J&M caster camber plates are like $160 I think. Or maybe finding the H&R springs on sale or something.

But I would stick to Maximum Motorsports, Steeda, Griggs, Kenny Brown, Global West, or Stifflers for Subframes... and Koni Sport single or double adjustables, Bilstein HD or Sport, or Tokico D-Spec for shocks/struts. Tokico Illumina adjustable struts and shocks also aren't terrible... but you couldn't pay me to put KYB anything on my car.

For the most part, you get what you pay for. I find it better to wait, save money, and buy quality once... rather than buy cheap, eventually regret it, and replace it with quality later anyway.

 

[BigTerminator]

Okay now how does this sound?

Get the sub frame connector first.

For the front get coil overs - QA-1 Single Adjustable Front Coil-Over Conversion - 175lb Springs $600 - list other good front coil overs for around $600-700

For the rear get H&R Race springs with some Koni Yellows $350

And then buy the other parts 1hot281 listed as money becomes available.

I'm not going to be a race car driver with this car, just some autocross and car meets. I don't need the absolute best but I want good bang for the buck. Ride quality does not matter much to me.

 

[2DXTRM]

Get the sub frame connector first.

For the front get coil overs - QA-1 Single Adjustable Front Coil-Over Conversion - 175lb Springs $600 - list other good front coil overs for around $600-700

For the rear get H&R Race springs with some Koni Yellows $350

Try and match the front and rear strut/shock brand and model. Dont have two different brands as they wont be a good match.

Also a 175 lb coilover spring for the front, is a no especially if you want a car for handling. That spring rate is suited for drag racing.

Have a look at Maximum Motorsports website for packages and read their FAQ and tech section.

 

[1hot281]

Okay now how does this sound?

Get the sub frame connector first.

Awesome first step

For the front get coil overs - QA-1 Single Adjustable Front Coil-Over Conversion - 175lb Springs $600 - list other good front coil overs for around $600-700

175lbs/in coilover spring rates will handle a little better than stock, maybe, but not better than H&R Race springs. Remember the wheel rate on coilovers can be roughly 90% of the spring rate, so 175lbs/in coils could have around a 155lbs/in wheel rate. A 600lbs/in lowering spring in the stock location can provide a similar wheel rate. You'd be better off doing the H&R Race springs.

Maximum motorsports front coilover conversion kit for Koni/tokico/strange/lakewood struts, with springs is $375. Koni sport single adjustable front struts are $360 for the pair. Just over $700 total, but superior quality from a company that knows road racing and handling.

For the rear get H&R Race springs with some Koni Yellows $350

If you're getting Koni anyway, you can get the front and rear as a matching set for $575, which work with the coilover setup mentioned above.

And then buy the other parts 1hot281 listed as money becomes available.

I'm not going to be a race car driver with this car, just some autocross and car meets. I don't need the absolute best but I want good bang for the buck. Ride quality does not matter much to me.

Sounds like an ok plan. Though you're missing caster camber plates, which are even more necessary if you do a coilover conversion...

BUT, if ride quality doesn't matter, save your money on coilovers and just do stiff or extremely stiff lowering springs in the stock location. H&R Race are a great set... H&R Super Race or Steeda Full competition springs are extreme... I think both offer a working range around 850-1,050lbs/in spring rates up front. H&R Super Sport springs are also good, and are over 700lbs/in up front.