12 GT vs 07 335i

[lawnmower22]

UPDATE 4/21/12 12 GT vs 07 335i

After reading the road kill forum for an hour or so tonight I realized that less than half of the threads are about actual races so I though I would throw this up.

My buddy has a 335i that is pretty much stock except for a dual intake of some kind. He took it to our local dynojet and put down 276hp and I can't remember the tq number.

I've been car shopping for a while now and finally picked up a 12 GT. I come from a pretty much all import background, so I heard a lot of crap from friends when I got the Mustang. My response was "hey I like it and I think it's a pretty good platform".

From day one he has been trying to race me and I said I wanted to wait till I got some miles on the car. I haven't dyno'd my car but I would assume it would spin the rollers somewhere around 350-365whp.

My assessment went something like this.

BMW 276whp @ 3450lbs (according to the owner)
GT 350-365whp @ 3660lbs ( I weighed it on the scale at PAP )

I figured I'd pull him pretty hard. He tells me "no, we'll be dead even". I'm pretty sure he was counting on brake boosting to overcome the power difference?

Anyway the day finally came last weekend and we did some rolls from 60mph. I pulled like a freight train. It wasn't even remotely close. I say lets go from 20mph and see what happens and he agrees with "thats where all my power is anyway". When we hit it from 20 he was hanging on to my rear wheel and I was only inching on him for a second but then I started pulling like a train again. Not sure if 20 was just that much better for him or I left it in 3rd.

He was looking at downpipes and tuners the next morning.

We are getting a track day together soon with some good cars. Tuned 1 series and 3 series BMWs, E55 AMG, couple of GTs and some other cars. I'll get some videos.

 

[S8ER01Z]

Lol you're a second faster stock to stock and he thought it would be even? Wow

Nice kill!

 

[wma8706]

335i BMW needs a serious tune and bolt-ons to match your power level! They are capable of high 11's at best.

 

[TVSCobra]

Also tell him he needs an oil separator on that 335i, I have removed 100+ intakes on those engines and all of them have carbon from the PCV system on the intake valves. I have had a few cars that were so carboned up on the intake valves they were throwing low boost faults, due to all the build up on the intake valves.

BMW has always complicated the PCV system on pretty much every engine and they don't work at all. BMWs Direct injection engine really need a secondary port fuel injection system to wash down and clean those intake valves or just make a working PCV system that separates the oil vapor correctly. I have some pics if anyone is interested.

If I had one I would have a catch can/oil separator and methanol injection to help keep those intake valves clean.

Anyway good kill!!

He better hope he has an oil cooler..those car run 230 degree oil temps just driving around. If he gets a tune and turns ups the boost too much that car will hit 300 degree oil temp and go into limp mode only after a few WOT runs. The later production 335s had oil coolers from the factory, but if his car doesn't have one he can put one in, either the BMW unit or aftermarket.

 

[TVSCobra]

Has the waste-gates started to "rattle" yet? You don't want those cars without a warranty and yes we can tell if there was a piggy back or software on the car, I don't care what any company says about their software or products. There are ways we can tell if the cars software was changed or if there was a piggy back system on it. PERIOD!

I'm a very mod friendly BMW Master Tech, when a car comes in with issues and is modded, but it is a case by case situation.

 

[NA_Cobra]

After reading the road kill forum for an hour or so tonight I realized that less than half of the threads are about actual races so I though I would throw this up.

My buddy has a 335i that is pretty much stock except for a dual intake of some kind. He took it to our local dynojet and put down 276hp and I can't remember the tq number.

I've been car shopping for a while now and finally picked up a 12 GT. I come from a pretty much all import background, so I heard a lot of crap from friends when I got the Mustang. My response was "hey I like it and I think it's a pretty good platform".

From day one he has been trying to race me and I said I wanted to wait till I got some miles on the car. I haven't dyno'd my car but I would assume it would spin the rollers somewhere around 350-365whp.

My assessment went something like this.

BMW 276whp @ 3450lbs (according to the owner)
GT 350-365whp @ 3660lbs ( I weighed it on the scale at PAP )

I figured I'd pull him pretty hard. He tells me "no, we'll be dead even". I'm pretty sure he was counting on brake boosting to overcome the power difference?

Anyway the day finally came last weekend and we did some rolls from 60mph. I pulled like a freight train. It wasn't even remotely close. I say lets go from 20mph and see what happens and he agrees with "thats where all my power is anyway". When we hit it from 20 he was hanging on to my rear wheel and I was only inching on him for a second but then I started pulling like a train again. Not sure if 20 was just that much better for him or I left it in 3rd.

He was looking at downpipes and tuners the next morning.

We are getting a track day together soon with some good cars. Tuned 1 series and 3 series BMWs, E55 AMG, couple of GTs and some other cars. I'll get some videos.

He'll give you a run for your money when he gets his downpipe and JB tune (~360-380rwhp), but it's nothing a cai, tune and LTs on your 5.0 can't take care of.

 

[z28th1s]

Nice kill!!

 

[computer_nerd]

nice kill.. (coming from a former M3 owner)

 

[lawnmower22]

Thanks guys.

Also tell him he needs an oil separator on that 335i, I have removed 100+ intakes on those engines and all of them have carbon from the PCV system on the intake valves. I have had a few cars that were so carboned up on the intake valves they were throwing low boost faults, due to all the build up on the intake valves.

BMW has always complicated the PCV system on pretty much every engine and they don't work at all. BMWs Direct injection engine really need a secondary port fuel injection system to wash down and clean those intake valves or just make a working PCV system that separates the oil vapor correctly. I have some pics if anyone is interested.

If I had one I would have a catch can/oil separator and methanol injection to help keep those intake valves clean.

Anyway good kill!!

He has 60K miles on it and has had to have the intake pulled already. Now he's talking about doing it again and having the valves cleaned with walnut shells??? He says the dealership is doing it with the heads on the car!

Has the waste-gates started to "rattle" yet? You don't want those cars without a warranty and yes we can tell if there was a piggy back or software on the car, I don't care what any company says about their software or products.

I almost bought one before the GT but while I was test driving it, I was getting some weird noise from the turbos and it felt low on power. They checked it out and said both turbos needed to be replaced but don't worry it's under warranty still. That pretty much turned me off of them. They are fun cars though.

He'll give you a run for your money when he gets his downpipe and JB tune (~360-380rwhp), but it's nothing a cai, tune and LTs on your 5.0 can't take care of.

I'm gonna hold off on the mods and just get some DRs before we go to the track in the next couple of weeks. I would love to beat it while still stock. If he gets me there will always be next time :burnout:

The one thats going to kill me is that SC AMG I think. Hopefully he'll spin a lot!

 

[TVSCobra]

Yeah we have machine that has been around forever for cleaning intake valves and yes it shots out walnut shell pieces to clean all the carbon from the valves and intake port. Plus if you got some in the cylinder it will not damaged anything, but each port should be cleaned one at a time. You are supposed to put a cylinder at TDC so all the valves are closed, clean one and then rotated the engine so you can do the next and the next, etc.

He really needs the oil separtor and catch can!!

 

[TVSCobra]

Good choice I would pick a GT over a 335 or even the new M3. Those M3s have no torque at all. The peak torque is only 295 ft lbs, it makes great HP but we all know that is not the most important thing to have. Plus the GT was faster around Laguna than the M3 and the Boss 302 rapped the M3.......for a fraction of the cost.

 

[NA_Cobra]

Thanks guys.



He has 60K miles on it and has had to have the intake pulled already. Now he's talking about doing it again and having the valves cleaned with walnut shells??? He says the dealership is doing it with the heads on the car!



I almost bought one before the GT but while I was test driving it, I was getting some weird noise from the turbos and it felt low on power. They checked it out and said both turbos needed to be replaced but don't worry it's under warranty still. That pretty much turned me off of them. They are fun cars though.



I'm gonna hold off on the mods and just get some DRs before we go to the track in the next couple of weeks. I would love to beat it while still stock. If he gets me there will always be next time :burnout:

The one thats going to kill me is that SC AMG I think. Hopefully he'll spin a lot!

You're going to need mods to run with that Benz. But the Bimmer might edge you out once he's DP/Tune'd if you're still stock.

 

[HEMIHUNTER]

Easy kill

 

[lawnmower22]

I'll pass that on to him.

I was pretty impressed with that track test against the M3. I know you have to be careful when looking at magazine numbers but that test seemed pretty legit to me.

 

[lawnmower22]

You're going to need mods to run with that Benz. But the Bimmer might edge you out once he's DP/Tuned if you're still stock.

Thats how I see it going too but a friend of mine just ran a 12.1 on his DRs
and I don't see the BMWs running any better that that. The AMG on the other hand...

The other side of that is whether or not I could replicate the 12.1 runs

 

[Black*Death]

Nice Kill...I figured you would crush a near stocker 335i

The 335i was a good race against a mooded S197 and SN-10 but the 11-12 GT's are a whole different animal.

Wonder how much he can crank up the boost?

 

[Black*Death]

Good choice I would pick a GT over a 335 or even the new M3. Those M3s have no torque at all. The peak torque is only 295 ft lbs, it makes great HP but we all know that is not the most important thing to have. Plus the GT was faster around Laguna than the M3 and the Boss 302 rapped the M3.......for a fraction of the cost.

Those facts haven't trickled out to the masses yet.

Some Still think the M3 is some untouchable car for a Mustang..and when an M3 would lose to a Mustang...the inevitable well "lets take it around twisties " comments would come out...

Looks like that excuse has dried up as well.

Too many people state how boring the M3 is to drive..I have never driven one so don't have any first hand experience..

 

[five0three]

it makes great HP but we all know that is not the most important thing to have.

More important than tq...

Plus the GT was faster around Laguna than the M3 and the Boss 302 rapped the M3.......for a fraction of the cost.

The laguna seca was faster than the M3. An M3 would ass rape a standard GT around a track, hands down. At the end of the day the M3 is still a superior track performer. Yes, it is roughly twice as much, but you get what you pay for. The two cars aren't even in the same league of price OR performance. remember guys, its still a 3700 lbs ish mustang that is riding around on a damn near 10 year old chassis design....

 

[z28th1s]

More important than tq...

The laguna seca was faster than the M3. An M3 would ass rape a standard GT around a track, hands down. At the end of the day the M3 is still a superior track performer. Yes, it is roughly twice as much, but you get what you pay for. The two cars aren't even in the same league of price OR performance. remember guys, its still a 3700 lbs ish mustang that is riding around on a damn near 10 year old chassis design....

:bash:

:read: 2011 BMW M3 Coupe vs. 2011 Ford Mustang GT Comparison - Motor Trend

 

[five0three]

ehh i stand corrected on that front.

an interesting blurb from your quoted MT article

"What about us? Do we take Randy's advice and name the Mustang, even in defeat, the winner? No. Although it may test better, cost less, and lap faster in the hands of (an exceptionally) common man, on this day, the Mustang is beaten fair and square where it matters most. But that's not the reason we are loath to call the Mustang America's M3.

A Mustang is a Mustang. Always has been, always will be, no matter how close it comes to knocking off one of the world's finest sports cars. Even if it had fully scalped the Bavarian, that wouldn't change the fundamental ethos of a legend 46 years in the making: fast, fun, and within reach of everyman. It's not America's M3. It's America's Mustang."

Like i said before Different cars, different league, brought into a comparison to do nothing more than get readers to but the magazine. i would drop my '11 GT like a bad habit for an M3 if someone offered it up. But then again, who wouldn't?