11-14 aluminator, turbo car.

[03blkann]

Semi long read. Just looking for some input and opinions!

Not quite sure this is the right location for this thread, and I apologize if it isn't.
List of mods below:
-11-14 Aluminator coyote motor.
-76mm precision turbo
-4r70w trans
-id1000s, twin walbro 465 pumps
-Boss 302 intake
-3.31 Rear gear
So anyways. I had the car built around 2 years ago. Was told it made 600whp on 9-10lbs of boost on pump gas. (Never seen graphs or videos/images, didn't think much of it..Seemed about right).

After enjoying the car and getting a very good feel for the car and what it could do. I decided it's time to turn it up finally and see what it can really do. Since after doing my research. I figured i had quite a lot of power that i could still push out of the car if i wanted. Was told this as well.

So I decided to swap from pump to e-85 and get the car re-tuned by a very reputable tuner who specializes in these types of set ups. (It was remote tuned). So I get to the dyno after receiving a start up tune for the e-85. I start to make some pulls.
1st pull- 3rd gear to 5k rpm (522whp 531tq at 12lbs of boost). Sent the tuner the log he sent me back a revised tune.

2nd pull- 3rd gear to 7k rpm (566whp 536tq at 12lbs of boost). Sent the tuner the log, he said the log looked good and the tune looked good, and to try and up the boost now some.

3rd pull- 3rd gear to 7k rpm again added some boost. (584whp 543tq at 13.7lbs of boost). At this point I am expecting the numbers to be a bit higher as is the tuner. My spark plugs were gapped at .028, He tells me to gap them to .019 so i did.

4th pull- 3rd gear to 7k rpm only change was the plugs (picked up 2whp and .5tq)

5th pull- 3rd gear to 6700 rpm (we found that this was where the car was seeing its peak numbers). I upped the boost to about 15lbs at this point, and removed the air filter from the turbo. Picked up roughly 20whp and some tq (do not have the photo of this pull).

Made a final pull with another like .5 lbs of boost ended up with a final result of 611whp and i believe 550tq (give or take 1 or 2).

I told the tuner before we even got started with the process. I would like to make around 750whp give or take. Told him my set up, he said that shouldn't be a problem.

I kept getting a hiccup in power around 5300rpm-6krpm. Where i would lose nearly 75-100hp and it would come right back as you can see on graphs below.

So at this point we are trying to go over all possible reasons what is causing the hiccup and why we aren't seeing better numbers.

-Valve float?? possibly? running boss 302 valve springs (which after researching seems i would likely need a better spring at 15lbs of boost)

-Restrictions?? It has Stock manifolds and full exhaust on the car. possibly?

-Dyno reading low?? Seemed pretty consistent but possibly.

This set up is in a 96 mustang so the turbo piping all had to be custom made for the most part. The car was holding boost fine no leaks or anything. Not blowing through the converter either.

I have seen stock coyote motors on less boost making higher numbers.

Please let me know your opinion and input!!

Thank you!

P.S. This is not a thread trying to bash ANYONE the tuner, and shop that built the car will be completely left out of this conversation.

 

[MG0h3]

Hard to say what is going on without seeing the logs or possible underhood pics in case something is hinky with the IC or piping.

I can tell you that doesn't look like your typical turbo car dyno graph, unless it's just how the dyno shop scaled it.

 

[03blkann]

Hard to say what is going on without seeing the logs or possible underhood pics in case something is hinky with the IC or piping.

I can tell you that doesn't look like your typical turbo car dyno graph, unless it's just how the dyno shop scaled it.

only image i can find.

 

[MG0h3]

Sure the clutch isn’t letting go or you aren’t spinning on the dyno?


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[clinton2003]

Sure the clutch isn’t letting go or you aren’t spinning on the dyno?

List of mods below:
-11-14 Aluminator coyote motor.
-76mm precision turbo
-4r70w trans
-id1000s, twin walbro 465 pumps
-Boss 302 intake
-3.31 Rear gear

"Not blowing through the converter either."

Did you even read it?

 

[clinton2003]

Since you have vbands, you might try taking off the exhaust just before your flex joint. Most coyote's have a much bigger exhaust coming out of turbo, most of the time either dumping up front, or going into a dual exhaust. Could be a restriction there, which could build up too much back pressure, especially if you have a chambered (stock style) muffler.

The boss valve springs are usually ok, but with higher boost, can be an issue, especially if a lot of miles has gone into them, ive seen them wear out pretty quick.

that weird slump in graph is odd, you should get a better picture of graph with engine rpm, not speed. and get rid of the other ones. that way you can see more of the graph. you could probably have the dyno shop send you the files, and you can play around with them at home.

that 76 should be big enough to hit the limits of your motor for sure.

be curious to see how much timing its getting at WOT, and what commanded/measured lambda is. they could be really conservative with the tune.

what kind of intercooler do you have? just out of curiosity.



At the end, does it feel faster? Did you ever take it to the track? Being that you didnt dyno it before not much to compare to now. previous shop could have been claiming 600 flywheel, which would be more like 510ish whp.... Which would be close to correct (at a standard 15% power loss through trans/rear end)

If you took it to the track, and know the race weight, you can find out a close approximation HERE.

Then you can take it back, with similar setup and run again to see your mph to get a fair comparision.

 

[03blkann]

Since you have vbands, you might try taking off the exhaust just before your flex joint. Most coyote's have a much bigger exhaust coming out of turbo, most of the time either dumping up front, or going into a dual exhaust. Could be a restriction there, which could build up too much back pressure, especially if you have a chambered (stock style) muffler.

The boss valve springs are usually ok, but with higher boost, can be an issue, especially if a lot of miles has gone into them, ive seen them wear out pretty quick.

that weird slump in graph is odd, you should get a better picture of graph with engine rpm, not speed. and get rid of the other ones. that way you can see more of the graph. you could probably have the dyno shop send you the files, and you can play around with them at home.

that 76 should be big enough to hit the limits of your motor for sure.

be curious to see how much timing its getting at WOT, and what commanded/measured lambda is. they could be really conservative with the tune.

what kind of intercooler do you have? just out of curiosity.



At the end, does it feel faster? Did you ever take it to the track? Being that you didnt dyno it before not much to compare to now. previous shop could have been claiming 600 flywheel, which would be more like 510ish whp.... Which would be close to correct (at a standard 15% power loss through trans/rear end)

If you took it to the track, and know the race weight, you can find out a close approximation HERE.

Then you can take it back, with similar setup and run again to see your mph to get a fair comparision.

That is one of the first things that I am going to do is play around with the exhaust.

The motor only has about 1200-1500 miles on it, and have been running fairly low boost on pump gas with minimal abuse on the car. Now the last reading i got on the boost was 15.1 it peaked at on e-85.

Yes i am waiting for the dyno shop to email me the graphs.

19 degrees of timing @ WOT, 0.79 lambda.

Image of intercooler below, not 100% sure make of intercooler.

Car does feel quite a bit faster yes, I took it to the track on the pump gas tune best et 10.6 @ 126mph. SO i have something to compare to.

Thank you for your response!

 

[KEVINS]

I don't know anything about the Coyote motors but 19* of timing seems like a lot.

When we tuned my 2v on E85 we were expecting to be running around 16-18* like other people but ended up at 11*. Anything over 11* the engine didn't like so we gave it what it wanted not what others had been running.

ks

 

[Gruca]

I don't know anything about the Coyote motors but 19* of timing seems like a lot.

When we tuned my 2v on E85 we were expecting to be running around 16-18* like other people but ended up at 11*. Anything over 11* the engine didn't like so we gave it what it wanted not what others had been running.

ks

16-18 degrees of timing on a stock Coyote is normal. On a built motor, I’m running 23 degrees at 11psi and 21 degrees at 14psi.


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[slow306stang]

As far as Coyote timing goes i'm running 22 degrees with e85/c85 mix and meth injection on 18psi.

I wouldnt get too wrapped up in dyno numbers. Some cars just do not put up good dyno numbers but run hard at the track.

 

[basspro302]

Specs on the turbo? Sounds like exhaust side might be too small maybe just trying to help out.

 

[dsmith658]

I second what others said about dumping the exhaust after the turbo and see the difference. Might be peaking low RPM with the backpressure. What RPM is your peak power?

I am running a turbo car as well.