11:1 and boost advice

[97markja]

I'm in need of a little advice on my build, its a 97 Mark VIII. Yes I know its not a mustang.
Here's the build so far. teksid block, b heads ported, imrc delete, cobra intake, mmr fuel rails, forged bottom end, 11:1 slugs .20 over, fr500 came exhaust is advanced 3* to be a little more boost friendly, twin fpdm's w/twin focus pumps, custom basket and hat. Votech S-trim w/fmic and kooks headers w/no cats.
The guys at vortech are telling me to go for 12-13psi and pointing at their new 2011 kit as an example of high compresion with boost. Granted they are running 7-8psi and putting down 600hp.
What injectors should I run and will the twin pumps be enough? I could build a basket to hold a triple set up if needed. This is a return system.

 

[Parts-is-Parts]

Dont 97 Mark VIII's have a return style fuel system?

Bottom line is this, you have high compression and boost with E85.
You are gonna make some seriious power.

But the build on hold until you build a proper RETURN fuel system.

 

[97markja]

Dont 97 Mark VIII's have a return style fuel system?

Bottom line is this, you have high compression and boost with E85.
You are gonna make some seriious power.

But the build on hold until you build a proper RETURN fuel system.

They came with a return system from the factory.

 

[AntiHeightPunk]

what transmission do you have

 

[97markja]

4r70w. 2001 model with my 97 tail shaft, 3800 dirty dog converter with a full build.

 

[mustanginky]

that's gonna be a badass car.

in todays realm of tuning abilities yes you can run higher compression with boost, but i don't think i'd go 11-12 on a stock mark viii short block without forged rods/pistons personally. i'd keep it around 8. you could possibly go higher with intercooling, but i'd stay below 10 lbs for sure. guys at vortech must have stock in rod/crank/piston manufacturers or something lol.

 

[97markja]

I've got a kellog crank, 04 cobra h beam rods, w/ dimond 11:1 pistons. It should take it. For a while anyway. LOL
3:73's posi in the rear.
It will surprise a couple people for sure.

 

[97markja]

that's gonna be a badass car.

in todays realm of tuning abilities yes you can run higher compression with boost, but i don't think i'd go 11-12 on a stock mark viii short block without forged rods/pistons personally. i'd keep it around 8. you could possibly go higher with intercooling, but i'd stay below 10 lbs for sure. guys at vortech must have stock in rod/crank/piston manufacturers or something lol.

Thanks man.

Anyone have any advice on the pumps and injectors?

 

[97markja]

Any 96-98 cobra guys running boost and e85?
I'd like to know the power and fuel set up to give me some ideas..
Also what plugs and gap.
Thanks, any info will help.

 

[Helomech74]

I have a single Magnafuel 750 pump and will be using 16 ID1000 injectors in my build. Not as high on the compression, but still over 10:1. I'm using a Procharger F1R on E85-98 and will be running between 18-25psi of boost (street/track). I'm running -10 feed to Y block, dual -8 to the rails, -8 from rails to regulator, -8 return with a fuel cooler and E85 sensor. E85, high compression and boost is always a fun combo.

 

[97markja]

I have a single Magnafuel 750 pump and will be using 16 ID1000 injectors in my build. Not as high on the compression, but still over 10:1. I'm using a Procharger F1R on E85-98 and will be running between 18-25psi of boost (street/track). I'm running -10 feed to Y block, dual -8 to the rails, -8 from rails to regulator, -8 return with a fuel cooler and E85 sensor. E85, high compression and boost is always a fun combo.

FR1 on 10:1 :kaboom:
That's a lot of boost, should be fun!
I'm wondering if 80's and the twin focus pumps will be enough or would I need to go to a triple pump? I rather not switch pumps seeing as I have 2 basicly new pumps now.. easier tor me to mill out a new hat seeing as I have the material.

 

[97markja]

I emailed the guys over at e85mustangs and Steve Shrader was nice enough to email me back. Figured I'd post it for everyone.

A 4v high compression motor on E85 is going to make some power if tuned properly. So plan your fuel system accordingly. I don't think dual pumps is going to be enough, and if it is, its going to be right on the edge. You should definitely do the triple pump setup and make sure your fuel lines are large enough to accommodate also.

Just to give you an idea, I just completed my new setup, a 281 cube 2v engine, 10:1 comp, ported 2v heads with some good cams, 17 psi on an S-Trim Vortech and it made 680 rwhp. It was already running out of fuel at the upper rpm range with an A1000 pump, and I switched to a Magnafuel 625, which still runs out. I've got a Dual A1000 setup sitting in boxes, ready to put on next week hopefully to be able to handle the 100 shot of nitrous I'm putting on top. We tried the nitrous on the dyno, and it made a whopping 773 but was drastically out of fuel, so I'm going back in a few weeks for final tuning to see if it will touch 800.

I've worked with E85 quite a bit, and the one thing that always gets underestimated is the amount of fuel flow you need.

NGK TR6 is what I use on these E85 setups. You don't want to go any colder because its hard enough to get ethanol to light when it's cold. Gap to about .027-.029 and see how it goes from there. 80 lb injectors should be fine.

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[Teej281]

I'd be running two Aeromotive stealth pumps for your setup. Should be enough fuel to support 900rwhp on E85. With your setup, I'd be running like 16-20psi. There is an '11 GT running an F1C blower with 20psi on E85 with stock longblock and he made 760rwhp. Big boost is where its at. Might also want to send the head unit in for a T-trim upgrade.

 

[97markja]

I'd be running two Aeromotive stealth pumps for your setup. Should be enough fuel to support 900rwhp on E85. With your setup, I'd be running like 16-20psi. There is an '11 GT running an F1C blower with 20psi on E85 with stock longblock and he made 760rwhp. Big boost is where its at. Might also want to send the head unit in for a T-trim upgrade.

That's a lot of boost on a stock bottom end!
I looked at the Aeromotive stealth pumps and from what i can tell they are not variable voltage pumps, the flow rate is fantastic though. I like the idea of keeping my fpdm's and being able to comand more fuel.
I could be wrong on the aeromotive pumps though.

 

[Teej281]

Ok, what is going on here? You say you have a built motor with forged pistons, rods, and crank with ported heads and now you're saying you've got a stock bottom end? And then you said youre running a return system with focus pumps and FPDM's...and return needs none of the electrical garbage and requires a continuous pump, not a voltage variable pump(although the aeromotives are able to be used by both voltage variable and continuous from what I've read on their site).

You need to straighten out your story here bro. You arent adding up right.

 

[97markja]

Ok, what is going on here? You say you have a built motor with forged pistons, rods, and crank with ported heads and now you're saying you've got a stock bottom end? And then you said youre running a return system with focus pumps and FPDM's...and return needs none of the electrical garbage and requires a continuous pump, not a voltage variable pump(although the aeromotives are able to be used by both voltage variable and continuous from what I've read on their site).

You need to straighten out your story here bro. You arent adding up right.

Lol.. that's. Lot of boost on the stock bottom on the 11 gt is what I was saying.
And yes, I have twin focus pumps and dual fpdm's. Motor specs are as listed above.
Mark VIII's come with fpdm and return system, I built the hat and basket to hold the twin pumps. Moving to E85 will require a third or different pumps and larger lines. (Just trying to get ideas on what to do)
Going to continous pumps is a simple change of removing the fpdm's and going straight to the relays I have on the wiring upgrade that trip off the factory vclm and changing the fuel pump type in the software to a 1 or 2... Don't remember off the top of my head, I have the pro racer package.
What I'm not so sure of is how switching to constant flow pumps would effect the evap/purge system on the car... It's got plenty. I could take it out of the equation but i would need to find the controls for the evap system in the prp and turn it off, I think its in misc- switches. But I'd have to do a little digging for that one.
It might be better without all that garbage anyway.

I can see why you called me out though.. I'm not bench racing here, just trying to get this thing done.

 

[Teej281]

I'd go true return system with twin Aeromotive Stealth pumps. They are the same size as the GSS342 pumps from Walbro that most run in-tank for return setups. That will be enough fuel for over 800rwhp. 60lb injectors will max out in the mid 500rwhp range, so might want to look for some 72's or 80's for your application.

The less electronics involved with the fuel supply, the better. And yea, I was originally under the impression that the new '11 GT's had forged internals but they dont. The Boss 302 does, but not the GT. You should push this blower and/or upgrade to a T-trim and make like 700rwhp. There is a guy on here that is putting a 2.9 whipple on a 10.7:1 shortblock, ported heads, supercharger cams, and he is planning on 800rwhp on E85. Bigger blower and maybe some larger charge piping should be in order and you could make big power easily. Especially being a centrifugal blower car.