03/04 Cobra Pistons - The Real Deal

[Rev]

Wonder if the title got your attention.

So what is the true story on these?

We're they in fact coated, and if so, does it wear. I just received word from a company that they saw skirt failure on two 03 Cobra's build dates were 06/03 and 11/02

But apparently no skirt failure in post 06/03 build dates.

Does anyone know or have information? One of these cars was a KB car, the other I am unsure about.

The cobras are a phenomenal car, but do we know what they are truly capable of handling? The same shop said that the request for higher applications on the stock block ( 650 to 725hp ) is increasing, but the concern on the engines infrastructure being able to handle it is growing?

Everyone pipe in on this, I would love some feedback.

Was there a prebuild 06/2003 piston issue or skirt issue, or combination thereof? :read:

 

[D-Cobra]

this is the first i've heard of this issue.

anything official from Ford on this issue yet?

 

[coleman]

skirt failure ... one of my pistons has excessive up/down play in it!

 

[broke7]

It would be cool if ford did something for the build dates, but we know how that goes. It also seems as if those certain build dates are only being affected by cars with big power adders when the piston is strained alot. Then again you have people running into the 9's with them making 750-800hp on a KB and n20 on top of that. It may be a casting problem as far as specs, but I dont think its material failure.

I love this motor, but if in fact it does have a POS piston in it which I think it does, I will seriously think about ripping it down and putting a set of ROSS or other pistons in it before its too late and one comes apart and messes up a bore or block.

here is the post below from modular fords on the topic as well when I inquired on the pistons's being coated like the lt1/ls1/ls6 style hypereutectic deals....... very interesting

There is definately truth to it!! Although alot of people don't want to believe it though. There are two sources from which I have this information.

1. I have a friend who works at the Ford hotline, got the info straight from him, seems when Ford bought 80,000 pistons for the 10,000 plus cobras they were building, some of the pistons, were not to spec, they were undersized. Their solution to the problem...instead of getting the right pistons, they just "coated" the undersized pistons and used them anyway. Now, after after 5-6,000 miles the coating wears off and your piston starts to slap because of the side to side movement.

The other person who talked about piston slap was posting on here, he went by THOR. He either works for Ford or has worked for Ford and went into great detail about explaining what piston slap is for the folks that didn't really know what it was and he also agreed with me on how piston slap is NOT a normal thing!! Most unknowledgeable people will tell you, that it is just the way forged pistons operate. That is pure bull****!! I own a Cobra R, it has forged pistons and it doesn't have piston slap, it doesn't have the "tick" either, but that is another story. I have owned 3 fox body 5.0's and none of them had piston slap.

To me the bottom line is there are alot of 03's cobras that have piston slap, I personally believe the pistons are the wink link in our motors, everything else is great!! I have the tick and the slap. I am running a KB and will probably just have the bottom end rebuilt and use CP pistons, just to give me a warm and cozy feeling!!

 

[Rev]

Ok, a good read. I had previously read that post that you put up on HP broke, thanks.

My questions is, is this issue resolved now, if it was true, in the new 04's?

 

[broke7]

Not sure on the 04's...ford isnt gonna admit to a mistake if they made it, at least NOT YET. A faulty piston on their "leading" flagship in the performance category doesnt look good on their resume.

My assumption was the 04 motor was a replica of the late run 03 motor with the same internals and TICK was resolved, but ive already heard reports of 04 mach 1's with the TICK. So who knows if these motors are getting the same pistons as early run 03's. If it did happen to a certain batch of pistons its gonna be hard for them to track where these pistons came in from, and in which cars they went it if there was a casting spec problem and they own up to it. I think that thread I found may of explained alot which makes since to me.

The problems with the pistons suck, just as bad as ls1's which are notorious for slap, and the Fbody guys have been fighthing that battle since they came out, and chevy hasnt owned up, they keep saying its normal. Its obvious though if the piston failed because of skirt problem's it was either out of spec or had material failure.

 

[venom279]

Yep, that is my post Broke, I hope that it helps people understand about pistonslap and the whole piston issue. I don't think that an 03 with a few mods like exhaust, cold air will be affected by the sub-par pistons, but those that are heavy on the boost, like you and myself are just walking on egg shells, even with the best tune.

There's no queston in my mind that the block, rods and crank are fully capable of handling at least 900rwhp, but the pistons will be a nuclear meltdown!!

:beer:

 

[broke7]

Like you said, i will walk on eggshells, if something happens I will demod, and go back to stock and hope for the best at the dealer. I'll use the warranty for whats its for. If not I will rebuild and put some GOOD piston's in it.

With the coming of the 05 and new motor platform you will probably see ford trying to get away from these cars in the warranty and TSB area and push them to the wayside and let us go silently into the night.

:nonono: :nonono: :nonono:

 

[venom279]

Originally posted by broke7
With the coming of the 05 and new motor platform you will probably see ford trying to get away from these cars in the warranty and TSB area and push them to the wayside and let us go silently into the night.

:nonono: :nonono: :nonono:

Exactly!!:bash: :bash:

 

[Rev]

Man, what to do, what to do.

I have 2 options, as I want extremely high hp/trq output.

#1 Go ahead and get the 2004
#2 Or belay it further

I have the funds for the car, and the power adder. But I am in no hurry what-so-ever to walk into deeper than surface visible issues.

I truly, do not know what to do.

Now, it is my desire to run a twin turbo kit, I found one from someone I both like and trust, and I have the funds to get it. With that said, this is more than just a decision of... "Go for it" or "Get it and hope for the best" or "It will work out"

#1 It will never just work out, and I dont spend almost $40,000.00 on a car and mods and "assume" it will work out.

Boy this is starting to get a little nerve wracking. Let me make my post, and I do not mind if people do not agree with what I have to say, or they think its a little overboard, but...

I want a twin turbo kit, I want a specific amount of hp in my car, simply because Ive been on many many other fast things in my life, and it takes a certain threshhold of power to make my heart skip a beat.

I would like to be in the 700's at the wheels. Possible? Who knows. Will the engine hold? I am starting to wonder. The more research that is conducted, the more people say it can easily handle it, and then others say it cant.

If right off the bat it would take a piston swap I would be upset, but I would do it, no worries. But according to many other builders and good friends, the engine can handle it quite easily.

How many people know others running in the high 600 or low 700hp range on these things?

This is starting to get a little depressing.

 

[broke7]

700 Hp is getting past your area of a total streetcar and reliability IMOP, when you have that much power you have to be able expect and realize things will break that are factory equipped items. I would be worrying more about other things than just pistons with that much power. IMOP you just dont slap on a twin turbo system and expect everything to be cherry.

If your waiting on ford to go public, I wouldnt expect this anytime soon probably never. Ford in all reality doesnt even have to recognize a problem when 550+ HP levels are achieved because you have modified the car then and voided the warranty, then in theory any and everything falls on you, and there was no problem, it was due to your negligence. I know I sure as hell wouldnt be crying to ford with a 700hp motor and it went south.

I say roll the dice, if it does have a problem, you have solid bottom end, tranny etc to handle, just need pistons.

 

[lethal]

If your that interested in power, then get an 03 (new or slightly used) and spend the money you save on motor work. Get the new head (if needed) and replace the pistons.

Done.

 

[notdisturbed]

Im a little confused about this slap issue. Does it happen under all conditions? In other words, are we talking about a cold start slapping, or is this during normal operating conditions(ie:motor warm, 55mph, 5th gear, normal cruise)? I have a slap(or what sounds like one) that occurs only during a cold start, but once the motor reaches normal operating temp its gone.

 

[Rev]

I have the other parts well handled: ie tranny, axle, and more.

After much research, I wondered if piston/piston skirting failure was due to a coating issue ford did to get the right size.

Raise the boost, and it doesnt quite sit well with coated pistons.

At least, this is what I have learned.

 

[NeedForSpeed]

I burnt 3 pistons......

And I've heard the stock pistons in these cobras are junk?

Replaced with a set of JE pistons......

 

[Rev]

Is there any specific trait that the cars that burnt pistons all shared? ie: build dates, or power adder, or specific power level?

 

[NeedForSpeed]

I had a good tune from JDM,

but saposidly other things led up to the failure, vaccum leak? and the boost dump stuck open and Jim told me at the track after burning his hand that the blower was way way to hot and overheating from the dump or something being broke. From the dealer my car used to hiss when I shut it off, no one could figure it out, untill one day I was gettin something done at JDM and they noticed the line unpluged from my drivers side valve cover and was hiden... tucked up inside the alarm speaker that was covering that spot. Not sure but I think a leak in the pvc system causes unmetered air into the system.... not sure on that one. Right about that time they found the dense charger was broken at the spot where it goes into the fender and had been sucking up unfiltered air..... Then I had the frps fail and flood he motor with gas etc..... bunch of little stupid things started happening.

I had a 2.8 upper and 4# lower, and beat the hell out of the car hard on a normal bassis, plus over revving fairly high on numerous occasions and the such. I've had it out on the street for 6+ hours switching between top speed runs on the highway to street racing again & again & again with no cool down etc...

So maybe I did have a bad set of piston, but I believe my constant abuse helped it along.

I believe the last thing I remember was racing a new turbo porche on I95 from a 50 roll on up. I was pulling multiple cars on the guy but in my happiness of spanking a shit talker I ran 4th gear way over 7K toward 8 , think i was around 140ish... and the car broke up and started falling on it's face etc.... I got out of it and drove home like an old lady, but from that point on the knock\tick was horrible.

Then I preceeded to visit the track with the car knocking\ticking and make numerous shitty low 12 sec passes.....

Finally after taking it to the dealer and getting the new head, being a man and finally taking the blame, instead of blaming ford like I originally did...

The car is in pieces and being rebuilt

 

[9900blueoval]

need 4 speed no detonation at any time?what fuel did u have at that time?that pvc line story sounds real fishy!since the problem has the chip been reburned by jdm?

 

[Rev]

Whats the piston swap running you ?

 

[NeedForSpeed]

9900blueoval: I run 93 oct. always, no noticable detonation untill the one really bad incident. No the chip was never reburnt, I was running a super chip from JDM. But the tune wasn't the problem, car always ran fine with no problems before. I'll be running a diablo most likely with the new set-up.

Rev: Couldn't really tell you, I know the pistons were just over 700 for the set. But I'm doing so many mods that it's getting pretty pricey.