BITCOIN

People jawing about BTC being down 70% either don't look at the history or choose to ignore it. 2 other times BTC has had a 80%+ draw down and what happened after a year or two? Another run up with it least 3x gains from the previous all time high.

Keep talking about "no intrinsic value" and "nothing backs it" and watch from the sidelines as those who are not emotional about it make a bunch of money from it.

Every crash so far has been accompanied by FUD similar to the talking points happening now. It didn't die then and there's a pretty good chance it won't die this time either.

KilledbyKenne said:

People jawing about BTC being down 70% either don't look at the history or choose to ignore it. 2 other times BTC has had a 80%+ draw down and what happened after a year or two? Another run up with it least 3x gains from the previous all time high.

Keep talking about "no intrinsic value" and "nothing backs it" and watch from the sidelines as those who are not emotional about it make a bunch of money from it.

Every crash so far has been accompanied by FUD similar to the talking points happening now. It didn't die then and there's a pretty good chance it won't die this time either.

Click to expand...

I think there’s a small chance it will die.

Do you not understand the implications of the exchanges blocking people from getting their money back?

Typically when you see that, it’s a Ponzi scheme.


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Exchanges are NOT banks. Stop talking about them as if they are.

cobracide said:

Exchanges are NOT banks. Stop talking about them as if they are.

Click to expand...

It is a distinction without a difference. If NASDAQ failed tomorrow all of the poorly capitalized tourist daytraders would disappear. The entire BTC market is poorly capitalized tourist daytraders.

Exchange blowups will be catastrophic to all of the Reddit basement dwellers that think they "know" about assets/currency/safe haven etc. There is no back bid to fill the gap.

MG0h3 said:

I think there’s a small chance it will die.

Do you not understand the implications of the exchanges blocking people from getting their money back?

Typically when you see that, it’s a Ponzi scheme.


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Click to expand...

Well I mean it’s not like stock exchanges haven’t frozen accounts…

Omg..LIFE is a ponzi scheme.

It turns out spending $100 to print $1 is a REALLY bad business.

SBF is on his way to being the richest man in the world.
Quite possibly the 1st Trillionaire.

Finally got me some BitCoins!!

cobracide said:

Exchanges are NOT banks. Stop talking about them as if they are.

Click to expand...

Ok but the coin itself is a store of value, as you said. I’m guessing your coins are in a wallet? Is that the bank?

How does an exchange stopping all transactions affect you? Another just stopped all transactions today.

Can you still turn your coins into cash? Just need to find an exchange that will do it?


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MG0h3 said:

Ok but the coin itself is a store of value, as you said. I’m guessing your coins are in a wallet? Is that the bank?

Click to expand...

A wallet is an app that can be on a computer, usb or phone.

MG0h3 said:

How does an exchange stopping all transactions affect you? Another just stopped all transactions today.

Click to expand...

It doesn't unless my coins are specifically on that exchange at that time AND I need to transact at that moment.

MG0h3 said:

Can you still turn your coins into cash? Just need to find an exchange that will do it?

Click to expand...

Now you have it. You transfer your coins to an exchange you have an account with and there you can trade for other crypto or redeem for Fiat Currency.

MG0h3 said:

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Click to expand...

q6543 said:

SBF is on his way to being the richest man in the world.
Quite possibly the 1st Trillionaire.

Click to expand...

While scamming the little guys.

me32 said:

While scamming the little guys.

Click to expand...

Well to be fair, that happens all the time on the normal stock market.

My only question still is what holds the value of crypto?

I mean if we all invested in USD could we run it up to it being worth $58k? No.

Blockfi and Three Arrows both just shit the bed.


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Struggling crypto lender Babel Finance said to employ Houlihan Lokey - CoinDesk​

HLI -0.76%Jul. 01, 2022 5:28 PM ET2 Comments

• Troubled cryptocurrency lender Babel Finance is said to be hiring Houlihan Lokey (NYSE:HLI), an investment banking firm specializing in financial restructuring, CoinDesk reported Friday, citing two people with knowledge on the matter.
• “Babel is looking at restructuring," one of the people told CoinDesk. "They’ve hired Houlihan Lokey or are in the process of hiring them. They’re in the process of signing an engagement letter.”
• The move comes after Hong Kong-based Babel suspended client withdrawals due to "unusual liquidity pressure." A string of crypto lenders such, namely Celsius Network and CoinFlex, have also suspended withdrawals amid turbulent market conditions. Recall in the week ended June 24 when Celsius employed restructuring consultants from consulting firm Alvarez & Marsal.
• "They [Babel] are the next major one to have some kind of some kind of outcome over the next couple of weeks, whether it’s sorting out and getting buy-in from creditors or declaring insolvency or default,” the person said, as quoted by CoinDesk.
• Earlier, Voyager Digital (OTCQX:VYGVF) suspended withdrawals, deposits and trading.

Voyager Digital stock sinks after halting withdrawals, deposits, trading​

VYGVF -29.55%Jul. 01, 2022 4:39 PM ET39 Comments
Cryptocurrency brokerage Voyager Digital (OTCQX:VYGVF) shares have tumbled nearly 30% on Friday after it decided to suspend trading, deposits, withdrawals and loyalty rewards at 2:00 p.m. ET.
"This was a tremendously difficult decision, but we believe it is the right one given current market conditions," said Voyager Digital CEO Stephen Ehrlich. "This decision gives us additional time to continue exploring strategic alternatives with various interested parties while preserving the value of the Voyager platform we have built together. We will provide additional information at the appropriate time."
The move comes after its subsidiary Voyager Digital LLC on June 27 had issued a default notice to crypto-focused hedge fund Three Arrows Capital after it failed to make loan repayments.
Meanwhile, Voyager Digital (OTCQX:VYGVF) said the value of its crypto asset holdings was $685.3M as of June 30. That compares with $1.12B in crypto assets it loaned out, including $350M in stablecoin USD Coin (USDC-USD) and 15,250 bitcoins (BTC-USD).
Voyager Digital (OTCQX:VYGVF) is joining a handful of prominent crypto lenders that have suspended customer withdrawals in recent weeks amid liquidity issues. Celsius Network, for example, halted all withdrawals, swaps and transfers in mid-June.
Previously, (June 23) Voyager Digital slashed daily withdrawal limit to $10K in wake of Three Arrows Capital exposure.

Really not related to crypto in particular - just bad business of loaning out more than you have to redeem.

I’ll still flip Lite and Doge

Comment from a guy on Seeking Alpha.

It is true that Bitcoin does not fit perfectly into the classic Ponzi paradigm. But it's very close.

In the classic Ponzi design, early investors are awarded outsized payments or interest which cannot be sustained, because the basic 'investment' does not generate, in of itself, enough profits to cover those payments. Instead, new investors must be found, and that 'new money' is used to pay the earlier investors, to maintain the illusion that the underlying business opportunity is valid. As long as enough new investors can be found to keep paying for the (expanding) profits of the previous group, everything works fine. But once new investors can't be found, it is revealed that the underlying business is in fact worthless, and the 'final round' of investors is left holding the bag.

Bitcoin clearly is different. Whether there is an underlying business model is subject to debate. But clearly there are no ongoing profits or distributions which must be covered. In that sense, Bitcoin does not match the typical Ponzi scheme.

But, like a Ponzi scheme, Bitcoin shares the following characteristics.

• Early investors profit the most, and have the most margin of safety.
• the underlying business model is suspect or non-existent.
• new investors are needed for earlier investors to profit.
• the promise of outsized profits is promoted as a reason to invest
• the underlying business model is obscured in order to avoid scrutiny
• the endeavor is unregulated, with little recourse to recover losses
in the case of fraud
• the potential for 100% loss is higher than most other investments, due
to the lack of a profitable business model

So while it's not exactly accurate to call Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme, in the short hand of dialogue, the matches are enough to where most people can understand the reference.

It would be most accurate, though, to say that "Bitcoin shares many qualities of a Ponzi scheme."

Instead of pasting other peoples thoughts and work, I will comment.

• Early investors profit the most, and have the most margin of safety.

This happens in every investment known pretty much ever.


• the underlying business model is suspect or non-existent.

Bitcoin is not a business.

• new investors are needed for earlier investors to profit.

No. Bitcoin is by nature deflationary.

• the promise of outsized profits is promoted as a reason to invest

There are no promises made by Bitcoin itself. You have been listening to too many youtube infuencers.

• the underlying business model is obscured in order to avoid scrutiny

Bitcoin is not a business for the second time.

• the endeavor is unregulated, with little recourse to recover losses
in the case of fraud

Bitcoin is thirteen years old. Very new. Regulation is building by the day.

• the potential for 100% loss is higher than most other investments, due
to the lack of a profitable business model

Bitcoin is not a business for the third time.

cobracide said:

Instead of pasting other peoples thoughts and work, I will comment.

• Early investors profit the most, and have the most margin of safety.

This happens in every investment known pretty much ever.


• the underlying business model is suspect or non-existent.

Bitcoin is not a business.

• new investors are needed for earlier investors to profit.

No. Bitcoin is by nature deflationary.

• the promise of outsized profits is promoted as a reason to invest

There are no promises made by Bitcoin itself. You have been listening to too many youtube infuencers.

• the underlying business model is obscured in order to avoid scrutiny

Bitcoin is not a business for the second time.

• the endeavor is unregulated, with little recourse to recover losses
in the case of fraud

Bitcoin is thirteen years old. Very new. Regulation is building by the day.

• the potential for 100% loss is higher than most other investments, due
to the lack of a profitable business model

Bitcoin is not a business for the third time.

Click to expand...

Good points.

You said it’s a store of value.

What kind of a store of value goes up and down? Kindof negates your statement on what it is.

It’s also not money sooooo….I still don’t understand what it is.

Again, the only thing propping it up is hopes and dreams of it going up.


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