To Delete or Not (Diesel)

SM0KE · Oct 31, 2021

I have a 2015 GMC Duramax that I've had since it had 12K miles on it. I use the truck to go to the gym, grocery store, hunting, road trips, and pull our trailer to go camping about 10X a year as well. It gets used for everything, but mainly it's being driven around town for everyday/normal use.

At around 35K miles I got my first check engine light. I took it to the dealership and it was a DEF sensor that had gone out. They replaced it and I was good for about a week before it came back. Two months and 5 check engine lights later, I had enough. I found a guy who would do my delete tunes and have been absolutely problem free since that day. I have a 5 tune dial in the truck but always leave it on the lowest tune (I think it's like 30hp over stock) and I'm never hard on the truck. The truck sounds badass now, it's 100% reliable, and It's much more responsive. I would never second guess my decision and wish I had done it the day I bought it. I now have 80K miles on the truck - all problem free since the delete.

awful knawful · Oct 31, 2021

I was using a jug of def on a 12hr shift on a CAT D8T. Pain in the ass.
I know guys that tell me they only add def every oil change on f250s.
I would only delete after warranty period.

One electrical contractor deleted his 2020 Dodge 3500ho. Said it went from 18L/100 to like 13L/100. That's significant.

CompOrange04GT · Oct 31, 2021

bglf83 said:
Truck stops here in Texas have it at the pump pretty often. I fill mine up at a Buc-es down the road.

Yeah if I go towards Dallas there’s a Buccees I think.

I’m sure there’s a few I could go to in my city or in Shreveport when I go through there.

I’m good for a while now though. I probably won’t work much the rest of the year so these should last a while.

It’s high idle for 3 hours at a time that blows through my DEF

SM0KE · Oct 31, 2021

svtfocus2cobra said:
I can tell you where you might run into some pitfalls eventually. Just had a 2019 Duramax in for no start due to loss of communication on the CAN BUS. The customer had just done all the deletes and had a programmed TCM and PCM installed and it worked for him for a couple days before the truck started acting up and eventually stopped running.

Our tech was able to re-establish communication and figured out the issue was the glow-plug module or the harness that was bad, and when it would lose communication you can just wiggle it some and regain communication. For him to fix that we will have to replace the module and he will likely have to install all of the original modules to be programmed together because GM's new programming update supposedly programs the entire vehicle if you are trying to program one module. The customer ended up taking the truck to see how bad it was going to act up on him before he makes up his mind on how to proceed. The work we did on the truck cost him $1200 in testing and repairs and he will likely have to spend another $700 or so to fix the issue. It's just become a huge pain in the ass to work with the deletes because of what they are doing to, what I assume, make it harder to tune and do deletes on diesels. That's obviously GM but I wouldn't be surprised if Ram and Ford are going down the same path if they haven't already.

Doesn't surprise me because the truck you're referring to is a L5P. Completely different and much more difficult to delete/tune than a LML. Thousands of deleted LML's out there running for hundreds of thousands of problem-free miles deleted. Only a handful of L5P's cuz of the cost and difficulty of the encryption.

coposrv · Oct 31, 2021

Except for the interior these new diesels just make me want another 6.0 Powerstorke. When I’m able to buy another new pickup I’m really considering just leasing them.

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03cobra#694 · Oct 31, 2021

CompOrange04GT said:
5k pounds roughly daily. Average 250 miles a day. 8ish hours of high idle time day

That's the girls at that 5K, not work crap.

Riddick · Oct 31, 2021

SM0KE said:
I have a 2015 GMC Duramax that I've had since it had 12K miles on it. I use the truck to go to the gym, grocery store, hunting, road trips, and pull our trailer to go camping about 10X a year as well. It gets used for everything, but mainly it's being driven around town for everyday/normal use.

At around 35K miles I got my first check engine light. I took it to the dealership and it was a DEF sensor that had gone out. They replaced it and I was good for about a week before it came back. Two months and 5 check engine lights later, I had enough. I found a guy who would do my delete tunes and have been absolutely problem free since that day. I have a 5 tune dial in the truck but always leave it on the lowest tune (I think it's like 30hp over stock) and I'm never hard on the truck. The truck sounds badass now, it's 100% reliable, and It's much more responsive. I would never second guess my decision and wish I had done it the day I bought it. I now have 80K miles on the truck - all problem free since the delete.

This is exactly what I planned to do if I moved forward with this idea. From the sounds of it the majority of people on here are leaving emissions equipment in tact and very few have reported any issues. Keep the real world feedback coming!

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365 Saleen · Nov 1, 2021

Having worked at Ford Dealerships for a number of years I have found that those who have EGR problems, DEF included, are typically those who DD their trucks. By DD I am talking about using the truck for the 10-20 mile commute to work and back and not much more. The guys who use the truck primarily for towing/hauling rarely have any issues. This goes all the way back to the 6.0L
I have seen plenty of trucks with over 250K miles and still going strong, while the DD has issues well before the warranty is over.
Just my observation.

C2tuck · Nov 2, 2021

DSG2003Mach1 said:
Valid concerns but if anything I’d look into keeping say a spare DEF level sensor.

You delete it and anything else goes wrong dealer probably won’t even talk to you anymore

On our class 8 trucks the ones that see some highway miles do well, they regen pretty easy. The heavy stop and go city trucks have more issues

The tune will make your gauge show full already.

Really depends on the dealer your working with. I’ve had two different trucks worked on under warranty where they knew it had been deleted with no issues at all.

If I were buying a new diesel truck tomorrow it would be deleted the next day. Period.

It’s not about the oil changes or def usage, it’s about your exhaust getting stuffed back into your engine.

I had a f250 work truck that the turbo took a shit on. We fixed it ourselves and the inside of the intake was caked with carbon. Picture repeatedly throwing it on the ground hard to get clumps out.

Delete that bitch and drive the piss out of it.

C2tuck · Nov 2, 2021

I’m about to delete my kobelco cranes. Had numerous problems with regen.

Not really sure why we have def systems on an off-road only machine…

03cobra#694 · Nov 2, 2021

C2tuck said:
I’m about to delete my kobelco cranes. Had numerous problems with regen.

Not really sure why we have def systems on an off-road only machine…

Had the same problems with out Kubota stuff. No idea why either on the off road EQ.

96dreamer · Nov 2, 2021

When I bought my 15 f350 the fact it had a weight loss from straight off the dealer lot was a big selling point for me. The Ford 6.7's are great motors and the emissions stuff is the most common thing that goes on the 13+ trucks. I also looked at a few trucks from dealers that had lifetime powertrain warranties but none of the emissions/dpf/egr stuff was covered under them.

01yellercobra · Nov 2, 2021

365 Saleen said:
Having worked at Ford Dealerships for a number of years I have found that those who have EGR problems, DEF included, are typically those who DD their trucks. By DD I am talking about using the truck for the 10-20 mile commute to work and back and not much more. The guys who use the truck primarily for towing/hauling rarely have any issues. This goes all the way back to the 6.0L
I have seen plenty of trucks with over 250K miles and still going strong, while the DD has issues well before the warranty is over.
Just my observation.

My commute is about 25 miles one way. Before we moved to where we're at now it was 10 miles. The oil always gets up to temp though. I'll go from towing something 3-4 times a month to not towing anything for 6 months. The only issue was the exhaust sensor that apparently all my generation trucks have/had issues with and Ford offered an extended warranty on it. But mine was fixed within the first month or so.

In talking with other diesel owners I honestly believe it has to do with how they drive them. Too many baby them and these engines don't like to be babied. I love getting into boost with mine. Always surprises the econoboxes when I get on the freeway.

JJackson515 · Nov 3, 2021

svtfocus2cobra said:
I can tell you where you might run into some pitfalls eventually. Just had a 2019 Duramax in for no start due to loss of communication on the CAN BUS. The customer had just done all the deletes and had a programmed TCM and PCM installed and it worked for him for a couple days before the truck started acting up and eventually stopped running.

Our tech was able to re-establish communication and figured out the issue was the glow-plug module or the harness that was bad, and when it would lose communication you can just wiggle it some and regain communication. For him to fix that we will have to replace the module and he will likely have to install all of the original modules to be programmed together because GM's new programming update supposedly programs the entire vehicle if you are trying to program one module. The customer ended up taking the truck to see how bad it was going to act up on him before he makes up his mind on how to proceed. The work we did on the truck cost him $1200 in testing and repairs and he will likely have to spend another $700 or so to fix the issue. It's just become a huge pain in the ass to work with the deletes because of what they are doing to, what I assume, make it harder to tune and do deletes on diesels. That's obviously GM but I wouldn't be surprised if Ram and Ford are going down the same path if they haven't already.

There is a lot of misinformation in this post / thread. The E41 Duramax ECM is completely different than the powerstroke, and cummins ecm. The E41 has sha-256bit encryption on it which is impossible to crack, unless you have the seed key from GM (this is similar to the c8, which has GM global B on it). So hptuners removes the micro on it, places their own on it with their own bootloader. Updating one module, does not require every module update, as a IMMO relearn needs done with tuning the new duramax trucks for the anti theft and remote start to work. The Can bus on the new duramax is unique as there are only a few other like it (2.8L duramax, c7 zr1).

The flash protocol for the 22 cummins has not be released by any company yet, it should be soon. It can be flashed with a mm3 tool connected to the obdII port and J port. Super easy.

The newer trucks consume an incredible amount of def, compared to older trucks. tuning only will not fix this. Typically a bump in power is a by product of getting rid of parts, optimizing the trucks potential, and not needing so many injection events (which burns fuel).

OP: Feel free to PM me if you want more information.

SecondhandSnake · Nov 4, 2021

You definitely do not want to DELETE your diesel truck. IT would be a big mistake. NOW some people will tell you that it will do things like keep you from having to pay for expensive aftertreatment replacements, constant regeneration events, costly EGR cooler failures, costly DEF usage, extraordinarily long delays and limp mode from faulty DEF sensors that are on intergalactic back order for the forseeable future due to the chip shortage, improve fuel economy by 20-50%, etc...

But you will be violating federal emissions law and end up in a lot of ****ing trouble with THE EPA.

To Delete or Not (Diesel)

SM0KE

SVT God

awful knawful

Well-Known Member

CompOrange04GT

Anyone have a strap on my girl can use on me?

SM0KE

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coposrv

Well-Known Member

03cobra#694

Good Guy

Riddick

MERICA

365 Saleen

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C2tuck

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C2tuck

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03cobra#694

Good Guy

96dreamer

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01yellercobra

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JJackson515

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SecondhandSnake

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