Holy hardcore cooling mods batman! Nice job BC
Looks very similar to Fischer's design. Would like to see some pics, I'd probably be in at $4K on the group buy.DOB is posting info on a manifold for the GT500. I really hope some of the top dogs racing on here pick it up and post some results up. I know at 26psi I had an IAT2 of 112F, which the 3V guys running other stuff was amazed with. I am upgrading my 3.4 whipple with a Bullseye 83 and a custom hat from Hogan, can't wait to see what that combo does.
Based on what I have seen on the GT500 unit, they should anticipate better, which is crazy. He has posted up some preliminary CAD drawings on DOB Facebook. I hope he has enough volume to justify what he has into bringing this out.
Link for any GT500 guys interested: Department of Boost :: Cooling/Intercoolers
Yes I have Fischer Motorsports manifold, single pass intercooler modifications, along with the Fischer trunk tank with a 55GPH Meziere water pump
I like it and believe it works very well. Data logging on the street or during the dyno tuning showed low IAT2s with this set up. I exclusively use the Ford orange anti-freeze in this system, no ice water. On a hot day with IAT1 reaching 160*F in stop and go traffic of NOVA I haven't seen the IAT2 go above 118*F with the tank coolant temperatures floating around 105*F.
The car is a monster and I can't really get the best data logs of IAT2 on the street. I can't get in the throttle and go above 10 psi of boost in 1-2 gear without blowing the tires away. 3rd gear I can spin the tires at 100mph at half throttle and may get to 14-15 psi of boost. So I can't really give you an assessment of how this system cools IAT2 under a long pull at full power and boost
Hey RBB I haven't forgot your offer on the state inspection. I just decided to drive it without one. I thought if they stop me I'm gonna get so many tickets....... what was one more. LOL Maybe next year once the spring weather comes back I'll catch you for that offer.
Fischer also has an option to go with a -20 inlet at the rear. I didn't go that route due to I didn't want to try to run that big of a set hoses from through the interior of car. If I was doing a true race car I without a passenger's seat I would have gone to the bigger hoses.Hi Bad Company, I been designing my own custom TRUE 1" IC water inlet and outlet to be used for the J2Fab 1" IC mod for my KB Bigun IC. Took me little while to figure that out and have those custom parts 3D printed in aluminum. All these STILL seat below the supercharger belt KB 3.6LC with 3.75" pulley and can be used with the stock 13/14 IC pump at stock location.
I been studying the Shawn Fischer IC mod which is on your car and I truly believe I can further improve it. The rear inlet us -16 AN (1") but my improvement will be -20 AN (1.25") with the front (2) inlets at TRUE1". All this still seat below the KB 3.6LC with 3.75 pulley.
This constant rain each weekend is a killer. I've drained the fuel out of her, put 5 fresh gallons of 93 in with StaBill 360 for the winter. I'll have to get with you to let you see this contraption in the spring. If we keep getting the moisture we have been and it gets cold, I think the cars won't move for a while, because we're going to be buried in snow.Kurt, my buddy just asked me a couple months ago what happened to that badass Shelby you wanted me to inspect? Offer still stands any time man, we can just take the hood off and roll over there. I still need to see this beast.
It was a terrible summer/fall in the area. I think we had a grand total of 4 weekends without rain, and 2 of them I was out of town. I made it to the track one time with the new build. Hopefully 2019 is a big improvement....I've got a Gen3 and some other goodies going on this winter so I'm looking forward to it.This constant rain each weekend is a killer. I've drained the fuel out of her, put 5 fresh gallons of 93 in with StaBill 360 for the winter. I'll have to get with you to let you see this contraption in the spring. If we keep getting the moisture we have been and it gets cold, I think the cars won't move for a while, because we're going to be buried in snow.
Fischer also has an option to go with a -20 inlet at the rear. I didn't go that route due to I didn't want to try to run that big of a set hoses from through the interior of car. If I was doing a true race car I without a passenger's seat I would have gone to the bigger hoses.
You're getting into your project deeply with printed aluminum. LOL It is hard to keep from investing money in Hp modifications
Hey Shawn, good to see you on, your big single is definitely top shelf, hope to try it out sometimeHi Guys
I posted this in another thread response but it's likely more appropriate here...
To clarify, on our base package we run a -16 in the back and use the stock tubes and a modified neck out the front (equivalent to the cross section of one -16 fitting). This effectively changes the core to a single pass where the entire water column through the core is fresh IC water. The other designs on the market are dual pass. Our base setup in single pass will flow equivalent to or higher depending on the core's water restriction than a -16 dual pass. In addition to the base setup we also offer a -20AN inlet (largest needed for the core) and offer either dual -12AN outlets, dual 1", or dual -16AN outlets... This would flow more than the other systems on the market.
On after market cooling systems, a single pass setup will flow cooler water and lower IAT's because the entire core is flowing fresh water from the pump, rather than a dual pass flowing once through half the core, picking up heat and then flowing back through the other half of the core again once it is already hot. Dual pass makes sense on a radiator, it has merit on a stock IC cooling system and volume which is why Ford designed it that way, however, it does not make sense on higher flowing, larger volume, upgraded systems, especially when running ice water.
Summation: A dual pass -16 in and a -16 out system will flow the same or less than a single pass -16 in and two -12's out. A -20 in and two -16's out will flow the most and single pass is the only way to achieve this.
I have an extremely good snapshot of our MoTeC data showing how well the Hot Water Bypass system works on a mile run. I don't want to step on any other supporting vender's toes or post outside of the forum's policies. My response here may already be pushing site/vender policies. Maybe an admin can advise on if it is acceptable to post the data image and analysis description here or if maybe Bad Company can post it?...
Happy New Year!
Cheers
Fischer also has an option to go with a -20 inlet at the rear. I didn't go that route due to I didn't want to try to run that big of a set hoses from through the interior of car. If I was doing a true race car I without a passenger's seat I would have gone to the bigger hoses.
You're getting into your project deeply with printed aluminum. LOL It is hard to keep from investing money in Hp modifications
This is a misleading statement. The water is only "fresh" until it has picked enough heat that it no longer has the temp delta it had entering. And then at the point where the water has picked up so much heat where there is no/very little temp delta. Where these points are at depends on discharge temp, water temp, and water speed. But in no situation is it "fresh" all the way through the core. The single pass water will pick up heat at the same measurable rate as a dual pass and they will both have "fresh" water at equal points of IC volume used/traveled through. There is a on paper argument that the slower water speed in a single pass vs a dual pass can extract more heat. But it is offset by the on paper argument that the faster water speed through the core creates more turbulence which reduces the boundary layer increasing heat transfer rate. I have never seen any data to support a single being better than a dual pass or vice versa. I have looked high and low in addition to testing I have performed myself.Hi Guys
This effectively changes the core to a single pass where the entire water column through the core is fresh IC water.
The other designs on the market are dual pass. Our base setup in single pass will flow equivalent to or higher depending on the core's water restriction than a -16 dual pass.
With a -20AN inletIn addition to the base setup we also offer a -20AN inlet (largest needed for the core) and offer either dual -12AN outlets, dual 1", or dual -16AN outlets...
On after market cooling systems, a single pass setup will flow cooler water and lower IAT's because the entire core is flowing fresh water from the pump, rather than a dual pass flowing once through half the core, picking up heat and then flowing back through the other half of the core again once it is already hot.
This is correct. But it has nothing to do with how many passes are in play. It is 100% dictated by line size.Summation: A dual pass -16 in and a -16 out system will flow the same or less than a single pass -16 in and two -12's out.
100% not true.A -20 in and two -16's out will flow the most and single pass is the only way to achieve this.
This effectively changes the core to a single pass where the entire water column through the core is fresh IC water.
This is a misleading statement. The water is only "fresh" until it has picked enough heat that it no longer has the temp delta it had entering. And then at the point where the water has picked up so much heat where there is no/very little temp delta. Where these points are at depends on discharge temp, water temp, and water speed. But in no situation is it "fresh" all the way through the core. The single pass water will pick up heat at the same measurable rate as a dual pass and they will both have "fresh" water at equal points of IC volume used/traveled through. There is a on paper argument that the slower water speed in a single pass vs a dual pass can extract more heat. But it is offset by the on paper argument that the faster water speed through the core creates more turbulence which reduces the boundary layer increasing heat transfer rate. I have never seen any data to support a single being better than a dual pass or vice versa. I have looked high and low in addition to testing I have performed myself.
The other designs on the market are dual pass. Our base setup in single pass will flow equivalent to or higher depending on the core's water restriction than a -16 dual pass.
The other designs on the market are dual pass. Fact.That is an incorrect statement when factoring the core sizes that are being used. There is zero flow rate difference through the IC when comparing single vs dual pass. You would have to run a core volume that is under 25% of what "standard" is to begin to see a flow restriction using a dual pass. And no one is running a core that small.
In addition to the base setup we also offer a -20AN inlet (largest needed for the core) and offer either dual -12AN outlets, dual 1", or dual -16AN outlets...
With a -20AN inlet
Dual 12AN outlets are a 28% restriction in flow.
Your comment on -12 outlets being a restriction when used with a -20 outlet is an attempt to marginalize and manipulate what has been presented. Nowhere did we say that we recommend a -20 inlet in conjunction with two -12 outlets.Dual 16AN outlets are not a restriction in flow.
On after market cooling systems, a single pass setup will flow cooler water and lower IAT's because the entire core is flowing fresh water from the pump, rather than a dual pass flowing once through half the core, picking up heat and then flowing back through the other half of the core again once it is already hot.
This is an incorrect statement. On paper you can show a gain with the single. But it's so small as to be immeasurable. Under .25deg. In reality if the advantage is there, it's impossible to measure with avilable testing procedures and equipment.
Summation: A dual pass -16 in and a -16 out system will flow the same or less than a single pass -16 in and two -12's out.
Until you run the inlet and outlet fitting sizes up, then the single pass makes all the difference in the world..…This is correct. But it has nothing to do with how many passes are in play. It is 100% dictated by line size.
A -20 in and two -16's out will flow the most and single pass is the only way to achieve this.
Oh really? Please enlighten us as to how else you are going to get your dual pass system to flow at or anywhere near 60 gpm on the GT500 platform?100% not true.
In no way am I suggesting that the Fischer Motorsports manifold does not perform very well and a lot better than what is currently available.[/bcolor]
I don't think your intentions are to be entirely misleading / dishonest. I personally think that most of the issue here is that you aren't as smart as you think you are and likely feel threatened on a business front. When you couple that with your reading and comprehension issues and a motive to mislead, we land here, where your approach and statements get viewed as hostile and are treated accordingly. I also don't doubt that you've put a lot of effort into figuring out what you think you know, however, I see people draw incorrect conclusions all the time at the track by assuming variables or misunderstandings physics / thermodynamics. As soon as I meet someone that thinks they know it all, I immediately recognize that they aren't bright enough to realize how little they actually know. Personally, the more I learn, the more I realize how complex a subject is and how little of the overall available knowledge on that subject that I possess. Said another way, the more I learn, the more I discover that I don't know.I'm not attempting to argue these points. And I won't. My internet policy is to lay out the facts as I know them and then not comment again. Readers can take them or leave them. No amount of arguing has ever changed anyone's mind on the internet.....ever.
My comments/data is based on water flow rig testing, extensive computer modeling which was backed up by a couple of hundred hours on the engine dyno (this allows an incredible control of variables you can't approach when testing with a car) testing different configurations, flow rates, line sizes, core designs, etc.
This is the DOB Spec R manifold on a 3V, 19psi, 730hp on E85, no ice, before I switched over to Ignite 114. My understanding is that the GT500 manifold will be bigger than mine.
At 26 psi and 850 HP, on ignite 114, no ice, my iat2 temp was 112F. Pretty sure the GT500 guys with a 4.0 whipple or turbo hat really pushing boost are gonna be happy.
Hi Weatherman,
What ambient temp?
What supercharger discharge temp?
What IC water temp?
Car cooled down?
Looks like a short pull... what are these numbers at the end of the half mile or mile at WOT?