P-51 Mustang On the Boil Flyby

[Weather Man]

Turn it up and feel the goosebumps!

 

[Great Asp]

P-51 Cadillac of the Skies!!!!!!

In Chuck Yeagers book, he said in a dive he broke the sound barrier in a P-51

 

[lOOKnGO]

Damn he was low!


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[RX1Cobra]

Turn it up and feel the goosebumps!

That plane races at the Reno air races. Pretty cool quick read about them. http://www.machinedesign.com/recreation/unlimited-air-racers-ultimate-hot-rods

P-51 Cadillac of the Skies!!!!!!

In Chuck Yeagers book, he said in a dive he broke the sound barrier in a P-51

I thought propeller planes couldn't break the barrier? I know a lot of people got close in dives in Mustangs and their controls would stop working. Some crashed and others were able to pull out once they got into the thicker air near the ground.

 

[Great Asp]

I thought propeller planes couldn't break the barrier? I know a lot of people got close in dives in Mustangs and their controls would stop working. Some crashed and others were able to pull out once they got into the thicker air near the ground.

That's the rumor, but hey, who is going to call Chuck Yeager a liar?

LOL

 

[AustinSN]

Holy shit!

 

[Black02GT]

That plane races at the Reno air races. Pretty cool quick read about them. http://www.machinedesign.com/recreation/unlimited-air-racers-ultimate-hot-rods



I thought propeller planes couldn't break the barrier? I know a lot of people got close in dives in Mustangs and their controls would stop working. Some crashed and others were able to pull out once they got into the thicker air near the ground.

Had to Google...

The first pilot to officially break the sound barrier was Chuck Yeager, who did so in the rocket-powered Bell X-1 in his famous flight on October 14, 1947, at an altitude of 45,000 ft. The sound barrier (or sonic barrier) is the term which describes the increase in drag that an aircraft experiences as it approaches supersonic speeds.

The effect was first experienced by aircraft in World War II. In dry conditions, an aircraft needs to be moving at about 767 mph to hit the barrier. Only a few aircraft at the time were even capable of approaching these speeds, and for many years, it was believed that the effects of this barrier would make supersonic travel impossible.

NACA (the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics, which would become NASA) did do some research in the 1940’s on propeller driven aircraft to see if supersonic speeds were achievable in aircraft of this type.

They created a high-speed propeller program and invested heavily in new propeller designs. Over several years, they were able to create a propeller that could safely reach these speeds safely. To do it, the propeller blades were thinned and shortened, and the angle increased. The propellers had to be designed differently because before the aircraft itself reaches the speed of sound, parts of the blades are already at or exceeding that speed, creating pockets of supersonic airflow that generate shock waves so intense that they can destroy the propeller. Adjusting the length and width of the blades ensures that the propeller doesn’t meet or exceed Mach 1 before the aircraft itself. Delaying the onset of these forces ensured that the prop could operate at supersonic speeds.

Tests were done using an XF-88 research aircraft, which achieved speeds of Mach 1 and was piloted safely back to Earth. While the advent of the jet engine resulted in the abandonment of the supersonic propeller program at NACA, recent concerns about fuel efficiency have led to a renewed interest in propeller aircraft investments and even the re-purposing of older war birds for special missions. So, who knows? There may be a revival in interest in this type of propeller research in the future.

 

[RX1Cobra]

That's the rumor, but hey, who is going to call Chuck Yeager a liar?

LOL

For sure; dude had brass balls. He flew his flight in the X1 one with broken ribs. Didn't tell anyone cause he thought they wouldn't let him fly.

I did read a claim of an ME 262 pilot unofficially breaking the barrier in WWII. Believe that claim more than the Mustangs.

Had to Google...

Cool read. I remember that plane but for some reason thought it didn't break the barrier. People complained about how loud it was.

 

[Great Asp]

In the book, when Yeager was dropping down from the B-29 into the X1 (mid flight), he asked one of the airmen for a stick of gum. Told him "I'll give one back on the ground". Funny thing was, it was so dangerous that he would probably die flying that roman candle.

I think there are a lot of people that sling the word "hero" around, but Chuck was the real deal.

E

 

[AustinSN]

It's my understanding that once you reach the sound barrier the design of the plane really comes into play. The shock wave of the air on the beginning of the wing can change flight characteristics, hence the reason for the swept wings on pretty much anything supersonic.

I bet Kevin or Snover would know more on the subject though.

 

[oldmachguy]

It's my understanding that once you reach the sound barrier the design of the plane really comes into play. The shock wave of the air on the beginning of the wing can change flight characteristics, hence the reason for the swept wings on pretty much anything supersonic.

I bet Kevin or Snover would know more on the subject though.

I was an aerodynamic design engineer at North American, with the group that, years earlier, designed the P-51. When I hired on, there was still a guy at the plant, Oliver Solkowsky (sp?) who had hired on when the first P-51A was built and waiting for its engine from Pratt.

As for supersonic aero, you are correct. Keeping it real simple (including using non-standard terminology): the "speed" that matters is speed of the air flowing perpendicular to the wing leading edge - which is the aircraft speed times the cosine of the sweep angle. The thickness of wing, relative to its "chord" (distance from leading edge to trailing edge), is also important, as is the shape of the airfoil. Thick airfoils will generally produce shock waves sooner than thin airfoils. When shock waves form (on the wing, horizontal tail, vertical tail, etc), the airflow behind them sucks, so the control surfaces behind them don't work too well. Google "Mach tuck" and look for bad things that happened to early P-38 Lightnings. "A few deaths were involved."

BTW, for all you SR-71 fans: yes, it really was that good. What Kelly Johnson and his crew did in the black at Burbank, in a very short period of time, was nothing short of miraculous. There are some pretty impressive one- and two-off flying machines that are way cool, even though most of us <cough> haven't seen them, but all told, the SR-71 is the most impressive flying machine ever - IMO.

 

[RustyRodder]

I did read a claim of an ME 262 pilot unofficially breaking the barrier in WWII. Believe that claim more than the Mustangs.



Cool read. I remember that plane but for some reason thought it didn't break the barrier. People complained about how loud it was.

The ME162 Komet also came close- rocket powered interceptor. But that was a dangerous bird...the fuel could melt the skin off your face.

 

[03Sssnake]

The ME162 Komet also came close- rocket powered interceptor. But that was a dangerous bird...the fuel could melt the skin off your face.

Those guys were playing roulette everytime they climbed into it, as you said the fuels used in it were very corrosive. Crash it on takeoff/landing and it's human stew, they also had a nasty habit of exploding in flight. Fueling it was almost as crazy as flying it. The ME 163 really was a desperate weapon.

 

[6.0GTO]

The ME162 Komet also came close- rocket powered interceptor. But that was a dangerous bird...the fuel could melt the skin off your face.

The speed of sound was more than 3200 miles per hour where I use to work. He did not break that sound barrier.

 

[03cobra#694]

I was an aerodynamic design engineer at North American, with the group that, years earlier, designed the P-51. When I hired on, there was still a guy at the plant, Oliver Solkowsky (sp?) who had hired on when the first P-51A was built and waiting for its engine from Pratt.

As for supersonic aero, you are correct. Keeping it real simple (including using non-standard terminology): the "speed" that matters is speed of the air flowing perpendicular to the wing leading edge - which is the aircraft speed times the cosine of the sweep angle. The thickness of wing, relative to its "chord" (distance from leading edge to trailing edge), is also important, as is the shape of the airfoil. Thick airfoils will generally produce shock waves sooner than thin airfoils. When shock waves form (on the wing, horizontal tail, vertical tail, etc), the airflow behind them sucks, so the control surfaces behind them don't work too well. Google "Mach tuck" and look for bad things that happened to early P-38 Lightnings. "A few deaths were involved."

BTW, for all you SR-71 fans: yes, it really was that good. What Kelly Johnson and his crew did in the black at Burbank, in a very short period of time, was nothing short of miraculous. There are some pretty impressive one- and two-off flying machines that are way cool, even though most of us <cough> haven't seen them, but all told, the SR-71 is the most impressive flying machine ever - IMO.

Please tell me that's a true story and not a copy and paste based on the bold font? Please tell more if you can.

 

[oldmachguy]

Please tell me that's a true story and not a copy and paste based on the bold font? Please tell more if you can.

I apologize for being dense: are you asking if I really was in that aero design group? (I couldn't follow what you meant by "copy and paste based on the bold font" - again, probably just my Asperger's kicking in.)

 

[03cobra#694]

I apologize for being dense: are you asking if I really was in that aero design group? (I couldn't follow what you meant by "copy and paste based on the bold font" - again, probably just my Asperger's kicking in.)

Yes, because usually when I see that bold font and letters in a post it's copied from elsewhere.

 

[oldmachguy]

Yes, because usually when I see that bold font and letters in a post it's copied from elsewhere.

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, all true. Let me know what else I can pass on. It was the same group that did the conceptual and preliminary design of the F-86, F-101, RA-5 Vigilante, etc, etc, competed on the ATF (what became the F-22), X-31 (my main assignment), and we got farmed out to various other projects. For example, I once worked about 2-3 weeks straight in the spring of 1991 on a weapon with Sadaam's name on it. Like I said, ask away, I will share what I can.

And forgive the large, bold font - it's easier for me to read.

 

[03cobra#694]

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, all true. Let me know what else I can pass on. It was the same group that did the conceptual and preliminary design of the F-86, F-101, RA-5 Vigilante, etc, etc, competed on the ATF (what became the F-22), X-31 (my main assignment), and we got farmed out to various other projects. For example, I once worked about 2-3 weeks straight in the spring of 1991 on a weapon with Sadaam's name on it. Like I said, ask away, I will share what I can.

And forgive the large, bold font - it's easier for me to read.

Lol, me as well. We would love to hear/read stories about this stuff. Please feel free to start a thread about this stuff any time you feel inclined. You'll be a god, believe me.

 

[72MachOne99GT]

Basically........

spill the beans on everything....

You have the greenlight on starting as many theeads as possible as long as theyre independent of one another, and dont turn out to be BS/Copy-paste.

Moderator Mach Approves

Edit: My inner boy tingles...and I won't say what the outer boy does... juat watched the original video...