Ford GT Disappointing Finish at 12 Hours of Sebring

[Silverstrike]

FWIW - here was the BoP they ran at Silverstone.

Aston Martin Vantage - 1230 kg (-10 kg)
Porsche 911 RSR - 1240 kg
Corvette C7.R - 1240 kg
Ferrari 488 - 1240 kg
Ford GT - 1260 kg (+20 kg)

Ford GT between 45-70 lbs heavier as weight penalty.

Maximum boost pressure ratios for Ford GT and Ferrari 488.

So the GT has been given a bag of bricks to carry around, and has to run several PSI less than a car with two more cylinders and more displacement. It's at a fairly huge HP disadvantage right now. Tells you what they think would happen without the handicap (with accompanying reliability).

This reminds me of the whole mid 80's with the Audi Quattro coupes cleaning house with the Corvettes, Mustangs and Cam,aro's racing in the Camel light IMSA series.

So they added weight and turbo restrictors and the Audi's was still dominating

 

[DHG1078]

FWIW - here was the BoP they ran at Silverstone.

Aston Martin Vantage - 1230 kg (-10 kg)
Porsche 911 RSR - 1240 kg
Corvette C7.R - 1240 kg
Ferrari 488 - 1240 kg
Ford GT - 1260 kg (+20 kg)

Ford GT between 45-70 lbs heavier as weight penalty.

Maximum boost pressure ratios for Ford GT and Ferrari 488.

So the GT has been given a bag of bricks to carry around, and has to run several PSI less than a car with two more cylinders and more displacement. It's at a fairly huge HP disadvantage right now. Tells you what they think would happen without the handicap (with accompanying reliability).

Is that 1260 +20 kg, or does that 1260 include the 20 kg penalty?

Can you talk about differences between the race spec GT and the street car?

 

[jacker1991]

Probably included. If you add 10 to the Aston you get 1240, and if you subtract the extra 20 on the GT you get 1240. I am guessing that's the standard weight for that division.

 

[DBK]

Yeah, the (+20kg) is over the baseline of 1240 kg, so Corvette, 488 and Porsche get to stay at the baseline, Aston gets to take out ~22 lbs and GT has to add 44 lbs. They will address the weight part eventually, but that boost differential is crazy to me. It's hard to tell the exact hp delta because all you get is the Pboost ratio, but any way you slice it, the 488 gets the courtesy of making a boatload more power than the Ford GT while weighing less. Obviously Ford is banking on a BoP adjustment prior to Le Mans, but the shitty thing is average joe doesn't know or care about any of this stuff. Some dude in head to toe Ferrari gear rolling in his 360 just thinks the 488 is the fastest thing since sliced bread and is laying waste to Ford's best.

The road car GT and race car are very similar because of the concurrent development. They would have liked them to be even more similar, but age old story, as you get closer to production more and more shit has to get added in. CF Tub, front/rear castings are the same. The road car weighs a good deal more, makes way more power, and has active aero components that are illegal on race car. Road car sounds a lot better because the exhaust route is totally different and acoustically tuned. Race car exhaust is super short, dumps out in front of the tire, they don't care what it sounds like. A lot of similarities between the engines, except the road car has both port and direct injection instead of just direct, to address road use reliability/driveability.

An IMSA GTLM car (at baseline) weighs 2,745 lbs, tops out at 180 and only makes 500 hp. The road car weighs more, has a much higher top speed and makes a lot more power than that. Road car isn't gonna be the best thing since sliced bread in a straight line, but it will be a monster track car that is way too fast for most people to effectively use.

 

[ON D BIT]

500 to the wheels or crank?

Great info thanks!

 

[mrlrd1]

500 to the wheels or crank?

Great info thanks!

The engines are scrutinized during assembly and are put on an engine dyno.

 

[GTSpartan]

Maximum boost pressure ratios for Ford GT and Ferrari 488.

So the GT has been given a bag of bricks to carry around, and has to run several PSI less than a car with two more cylinders and more displacement. It's at a fairly huge HP disadvantage right now. Tells you what they think would happen without the handicap (with accompanying reliability).

What is the max allowed rpm for each car?. That may shed a bit more light on the boost ratio differences.

 

[CobraRed01]

Sounds awful actually.

Same goes for the idea of limiting money. What would you base that off of? Assuming everyone provides Certified Cost or Pricing Data and the officials haves a team of accountants audit every cent - are we looking at program cost or actual vehicle construction cost?

How would GM quantify the cost of developing the race series engines? Cost of the engines is likely dragged across all facets of the company and many programs.

I also think many of these guys will want to keep costs and hours secrete as they are competing advantages. Would this become public info in the name of transparency?

Considering the continuing issue we are seeing with BOP...which makes true head-to-head competition...rather humorous...your solution would be?

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[Corbic]

Considering the continuing issue we are seeing with BOP...which makes true head-to-head competition...rather humorous...your solution would be?

Just cancel the series.

 

[CobraRed01]

Just cancel the series.

Not a solution.

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[CobraRed01]

Ganassi takes 1st with the Ford GT at Laguna Seca!! Excellent fuel strategy and one less stop. Westie brought it home. A formula for Le Mans. Got to love that bop...

Let's see how the Euro Ford GT team does in WEC at Spa next week.

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[kino]

Damn shame a smaller turbo 6 has to run less boost throughout entire rpm range BEFORE actually winning a race and another certain competitor runs a larger engine thats not even a production motor plus a weight break.

 

[thomas91169]

Listen to the crickets from the haters camp......

 

[black99lightnin]

Congrats to the Ford GT program.

 

[MachME]

So the GT has been given a bag of bricks to carry around, and has to run several PSI less than a car with two more cylinders and more displacement. It's at a fairly huge HP disadvantage right now. Tells you what they think would happen without the handicap (with accompanying reliability).

This is gold. Will be even sweeter when Ford takes LeMans.

 

[CobraRed01]

Damn shame a smaller turbo 6 has to run less boost throughout entire rpm range BEFORE actually winning a race and another certain competitor runs a larger engine thats not even a production motor plus a weight break.

Yeah...that whole BOP thing is a PIA. It is suspected that Ford may be sandbagging a bit to ensure they don't get penalized further before Le Mans. Le Mans really is The Big Deal for the Ford GT over the next few years...based on the 50th anniversary deal (+67, 68 & 69). They are coming out in force with four cars this year. Really fun to watch!! I hope they crush Ferrari again.

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[03Sssnake]

^^^This...I would love nothing more than to see history repeat itself with FORD piping Ferrari in the ass at Le Mans..

 

[black99lightnin]

^^^This...I would love nothing more than to see history repeat itself with FORD piping Ferrari in the ass at Le Mans..

The ferrari doesn't appear to be real competitive in the class racing in the US. Not sure if there is any difference when they go to Le Mans. Beating the established Vette and Porsche teams was impressive.

 

[03Sssnake]

The ferrari doesn't appear to be real competitive in the class racing in the US. Not sure if there is any difference when they go to Le Mans. Beating the established Vette and Porsche teams was impressive.

I would agree, more wishful thinking on my part, the old rivalry part that is.... Isn't Risi and Scuderia Corsa the only teams here with factory backing from Ferrari? Porsche and Audi are the real heavyweights at Le Mans. I don't think Ferrari has any real serious factory effort outside of Formula 1 and haven't for decades.

 

[DBK]

Don't expect much from Spa this weekend. FIA WEC BoP still punitive. Aston Martin got a further 30 kg weight reduction so the GT is now 110 lbs heavier than they are. Still ~44 lbs over the 488 and 911 RSR, with reduced power. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Ford is very slow this weekend.

And yes, Ford, along with everyone else, is still sandbagging. Every once in a while all of these teams accidentally crack off one super fast lap way outside the average. Ferrari ran a very fast lap at Laguna at one point.