I understand wanting to make the racing competitive, they are trying to make it exciting for the fans so they buy tickets and watch it on tv. I just dislike how it can remove incentive to design a better car when they ram the BoP up a teams ***.
Ford GT Disappointing Finish at 12 Hours of Sebring
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I like the energy equivalent approach.
How about...
1) Does it fit in this box?
2) Does it have wheels that touch the ground?
OK...you're good to go.
If you want to be competitive in an "anything goes" format - a truly "Bring what ya got, Race what ya brung" class - it's going to be pricey.
How about? You all get the same amount of money. Now go out, build something and try to win.
Of course it'll be pricey. The fastest way to turn a big fortune into a small one is to go racing. But nobody ever said racing is cheap, nor should it be.
Having said that, I like the idea of combining a specified budget with a specified amount of energy. Just make the budget high enough that we get some true innovation
Please show me where this has caused teams not to build a better car?
As for the budget. Do the teams bring reciepts to tech to prove they're budget compliant? Does a $90k corvette based race car get the same budget as a $150k Ferrari?
How do you level the competition and ensure the teams stay within the budget constraints?
If a car wins and keeps winning how does that team prove they're following the budget limitations?
What happens when a certain model of car comes in and smokes the competition for the majority of the season?
Do you really think that will help car counts if the people showing up know they've lost before ever turning a practice lap?
The money and energy limits concept will never work in GT racing based on road going sports cars. Too many apples and oranges...t'is the nature of the beast. It will always need to be BOPed.
If there ever would be a dollar and energy limited road racing class it couldn't be street car based. Soooo.... OK, manufacturers/independants ..here is one common carbon fiber safety tub...and as long you can fit your car in this box (i.e. reasonable size constraints)...and it's got wheels...do whatever you want to win as long as you don't spend more than this and consume more than this. Hence, could there ever be a reasonably priced prototype class? Would there be any interest? At this point you might be able to dispense with the BOP. Of course, the continuing issue will be the continuing disparity between power plants. Cost control would be important...effectively requiring the teams to get the best performance for their dollar and energy limits.
if anyone wants to see a class where its spend what you can and run what you brung within the rules of the class then watch F1, you will see what happens when manufacturers are allowed to spend unlimited money. apply that in sports car racing and I think the only 2 teams that would dominate that class would be Porsche and Ferrari, much like they did endurance racing in the 60's and 70's.
what I would like to see though is the return to the old trans am style racing for manufacturers, meaning if its on the car for racing it has to be available to the public in or on the production car with the exception of damper and spring rates, and engine limitations again like no V8 larger than 5 liters and all engines used must be production available engines. I know there is the Pirelli and Continental series but they are limited to what tires they use, I would rather see an open tire war.
what I would like to see though is the return to the old trans am style racing for manufacturers, meaning if its on the car for racing it has to be available to the public in or on the production car with the exception of damper and spring rates, and engine limitations again like no V8 larger than 5 liters and all engines used must be production available engines. I know there is the Pirelli and Continental series but they are limited to what tires they use, I would rather see an open tire war.
Sounds a lot like a hard charging plan to ultimately arrive at a spec racing prototype class.
Love me some LMPC cars acting as rolling chicanes for GTLM cars.
Actually, a spec class like LMPC is much more restrictive than what I talking about. Other than the carbon fiber safety tub...everything else would be open...but cost constrained. No one says it would be the fastest class, just one that attempts to purify competition.
Regarding LMPC rolling chicanes...agreed. Not such a bad thing as it does make the race a real challenge, so to speak. Of course, if it wasn't for LMPC in IMSA where would we get all our minimum race requirement of FCC's? That's the really the biggest problem...which is more of talent differential issue instead of a vehicle performance differential issue.
I think something like this is in the future for LMP1 with Audi and Porsche already admitting they're spending over $100 million per year, that's not sustainable. Pugeout had a very good few years and I think they were on the cusp of breaking though to being an lmp1 powerhouse when they pulled the plug. They had some bad luck at Le Mans but that's to be expected look at how many Audis got turned into rubbish at Le Mans over the years.
I'll never forget McNishs hit after the Dunlop bridge in 2011.
http://youtu.be/JW3NDGk6YQE
June will be here before we know it!
Yeah between the lmpcs and the #50 DP things get pretty greasy in traffic. What's lmpc got left this year maybe 2017? I have heard lots of bitching about lmpc but I hadn't seen any plans for the class in the upcoming years.
Personally, I like the lmpc cars, prototypes are supposed to be roadsters. Open cockpit two seaters that's what the definition of a prototype has been for years and I'm partial to that. After they're gone we get greenhouse fugly ducklings. Look how retarded even the deltawing looks as a coupe. Looks like a DP and a rascal mobility chair had sex and that's their baby.
Over on sportscar365.com the discussion turned to a racing class with GTLM as the marquee race class, along with a GTDP (pro), GTDA (amateur) and possibly a spec feeder class GTDC. None of the manufacturer specific DPi body work would be needed to help the casual fan know what car just went by because the cars would all be based off their street legal mass produced variants.
I'll never forget McNishs hit after the Dunlop bridge in 2011.
http://youtu.be/JW3NDGk6YQE
June will be here before we know it!
Yeah between the lmpcs and the #50 DP things get pretty greasy in traffic. What's lmpc got left this year maybe 2017? I have heard lots of bitching about lmpc but I hadn't seen any plans for the class in the upcoming years.
Personally, I like the lmpc cars, prototypes are supposed to be roadsters. Open cockpit two seaters that's what the definition of a prototype has been for years and I'm partial to that. After they're gone we get greenhouse fugly ducklings. Look how retarded even the deltawing looks as a coupe. Looks like a DP and a rascal mobility chair had sex and that's their baby.
Over on sportscar365.com the discussion turned to a racing class with GTLM as the marquee race class, along with a GTDP (pro), GTDA (amateur) and possibly a spec feeder class GTDC. None of the manufacturer specific DPi body work would be needed to help the casual fan know what car just went by because the cars would all be based off their street legal mass produced variants.
On the topic of the Prototype Challenge cars I have a friend that is on a team from Minnesota. JDC Motorsports and they are having a great start to the season. Won their class at the 24 hours of Daytona and just won the class at Long Beach. I posted some inside team picture in pics and video for anyone interested. All the cars are spec LS3 engines.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...Challenge-winning-car&p=15278428#post15278428
http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...Challenge-winning-car&p=15278428#post15278428
WTF are you talking about? GT finished third with the C7R in second. The Corvette was wrecked and still finished ahead of the GT.
Maybe he meant Silverstone in WEC lol
That would just as foolish: comparing a Pro class to an Amateur class with more restrictions.
Hey at least you are wrong too, Gt came 4th. I had read an article saying how the GT came up on top of the corvettes, obviously was wrong oh well
Well I guess that settles it. Time to sell my Ford and start driving Silver Ray Doh's and make YouTube parody videos
The number 4 C7R should've won the race, got spun out in the hairpin with a lap left by one of the sister Porsches. This allowed the 3rd place Porsche at the time to finish in 1st.
http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/128357-imsa-taylors-win-long-beach-corvette-gt-thwarted
Sounds awful actually.
Same goes for the idea of limiting money. What would you base that off of? Assuming everyone provides Certified Cost or Pricing Data and the officials haves a team of accountants audit every cent - are we looking at program cost or actual vehicle construction cost?
How would GM quantify the cost of developing the race series engines? Cost of the engines is likely dragged across all facets of the company and many programs.
I also think many of these guys will want to keep costs and hours secrete as they are competing advantages. Would this become public info in the name of transparency?
FWIW - here was the BoP they ran at Silverstone.
Aston Martin Vantage - 1230 kg (-10 kg)
Porsche 911 RSR - 1240 kg
Corvette C7.R - 1240 kg
Ferrari 488 - 1240 kg
Ford GT - 1260 kg (+20 kg)
Ford GT between 45-70 lbs heavier as weight penalty.
Maximum boost pressure ratios for Ford GT and Ferrari 488.
So the GT has been given a bag of bricks to carry around, and has to run several PSI less than a car with two more cylinders and more displacement. It's at a fairly huge HP disadvantage right now. Tells you what they think would happen without the handicap (with accompanying reliability).
Aston Martin Vantage - 1230 kg (-10 kg)
Porsche 911 RSR - 1240 kg
Corvette C7.R - 1240 kg
Ferrari 488 - 1240 kg
Ford GT - 1260 kg (+20 kg)
Ford GT between 45-70 lbs heavier as weight penalty.
Maximum boost pressure ratios for Ford GT and Ferrari 488.
So the GT has been given a bag of bricks to carry around, and has to run several PSI less than a car with two more cylinders and more displacement. It's at a fairly huge HP disadvantage right now. Tells you what they think would happen without the handicap (with accompanying reliability).
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