Yet another reason that the end of ICE is fantasy

[Klaus]

The sentiment among the ICE catastophizers is that the end of ICE is nigh because of government intervention. The narrative is that government will force all to do what government wants and government always gets what it wants.

The assumption is flawed because it simultaneously accepts that government is incredibly dumb at allocating resources but is incredibly capable at executing on plans to allocate resources.

But only one can be true.

And it isn't "government is incredibly capable at executing plans to allocate resources."

The attempts to force EV adoption will fail miserably. It will be spectacular. The only question is how government extricates itself from the failure in a way that it does not look like failure.

Exhibit A.

Supposedly the biggest tailwind to EV adoption is the inflation protection act. To get Manchins vote it includes all sorts of protectionist bullshit. It turns out this protectionist bullshit will be a huge headwind to EV adoption. LOL

The Inflation Reduction Act is screwing up the market for electric vehicles

Volkswagen unveiled a cheap new electric concept car, but protectionist policies mean it's not worthwhile for the company to introduce it in the U.S.

reason.com

 

[Kornilov]

Not only that, but basic arithmetic and business sense demand the continuation of ICE for automakers. Im not sure what the population of Western Europe is, Ill guess about that of the US - some 350 million. But in fairness, most of the native Western Europeans are marixst eunuchs. A good chunk of that is Muslim immigrants who are in the midst of the new Moorish conquest - but I digress. Getting back to point, so if you include the population of the US - again some 350 millions, you get to roughly 3/4 of a billion people who will either want EVs or be under EVs mandates, or whose infrastructure could theoretically support it.

Leaving the above aside for a moment, lets take a look at Asia for a minute. The #2 and #6 economies in the world have a combined populace of almost 3 BILLION people. Many of these individuals will be clamoring for personal transportation as both their nations' and their personal GDPs rise over the course of the next few decades. And again, this doesn't take into account places like Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Singapore, Thailand, etc - theres another few hundred million people at least in those countries.

We'll leave out South America and Africa for the moment - which encompasses another 2 billion people or so.

Long story short, approximately 90% of the world's population cannot and will not support EVs. Any automaker who is going exclusively EV is shutting themselves off from the global market (sans Western Europe). Removing the budding markets of Asia from your business portfolio is not a survivable strategy. Even the wokest of corporate imbeciles understands this, but at the moment the money is in virtue signaling, so they are spreading those ass cheeks far and wide for Premier Xiden's - betting that when they fail, Xiden will deliver the taxpayer funds to keep them afloat.

Secretly, they understand that they must maintain ICE production to be able to sell to most of the rest of the world.

The REAL failure here is the Republican establishment who is still asleep at the wheel even at this late date. Leftists have weaponized EVs for at least the last decade and a half and are using them as a weapon to attack Freedom and Liberty and the Mitch's Mitts, and Lindseys of the world are busy separating their jaws like a predator snake to see who can swallow Zelinski's **** and balls the deepest.

EV's are the new COVID vax.

 

[blk02edge]

I think you are technically correct but forget how quickly the world powers jumped in two feet only a couple years ago to absolutely **** the world up over a flu... the next one will be climate emergency lock downs. Full blown control is probably coming.

 

[Weather Man]

The sentiment among the ICE catastophizers is that the end of ICE is nigh because of government intervention. The narrative is that government will force all to do what government wants and government always gets what it wants.

The assumption is flawed because it simultaneously accepts that government is incredibly dumb at allocating resources but is incredibly capable at executing on plans to allocate resources.

But only one can be true.

And it isn't "government is incredibly capable at executing plans to allocate resources."

The attempts to force EV adoption will fail miserably. It will be spectacular. The only question is how government extricates itself from the failure in a way that it does not look like failure.

Exhibit A.

Supposedly the biggest tailwind to EV adoption is the inflation protection act. To get Manchins vote it includes all sorts of protectionist bullshit. It turns out this protectionist bullshit will be a huge headwind to EV adoption. LOL

The Inflation Reduction Act is screwing up the market for electric vehicles

Volkswagen unveiled a cheap new electric concept car, but protectionist policies mean it's not worthwhile for the company to introduce it in the U.S.

reason.com

You're using logic and the Green Insanity has no time for that. It's a win for them if ICE is killed and EV's are unaffordable, fewer people driving on mother earth.

 

[black4vcobra]

I think you are technically correct but forget how quickly the world powers jumped in two feet only a couple years ago to absolutely **** the world up over a flu... the next one will be climate emergency lock downs. Full blown control is probably coming.

I hope everyone remembers how much bullshit the Covid lockdowns were and if any of the commies attempt climate lockdowns, there will be majority refusal to comply.

 

[blk02edge]

I hope everyone remembers how much bullshit the Covid lockdowns were and if any of the commies attempt climate lockdowns, there will be majority refusal to comply.

People will comply and the small portion who don't will be "terrorists"

 

[CobraBob]

I hope everyone remembers how much bullshit the Covid lockdowns were and if any of the commies attempt climate lockdowns, there will be majority refusal to comply.

SO much common sense logic in this thread. Seriously! But.....the majority of Americans will comply with government directive/policies. It happened with Covid-19 back in 2020-2021. That "test" ensure future compliance. Sure, there would be pushback and resistance, but it will be a minority. That's a fact, whether we like it or not.

 

[OX1]

The sentiment among the ICE catastophizers is that the end of ICE is nigh because of government intervention. The narrative is that government will force all to do what government wants and government always gets what it wants.

The assumption is flawed because it simultaneously accepts that government is incredibly dumb at allocating resources but is incredibly capable at executing on plans to allocate resources.

But only one can be true.

And it isn't "government is incredibly capable at executing plans to allocate resources."

The attempts to force EV adoption will fail miserably. It will be spectacular. The only question is how government extricates itself from the failure in a way that it does not look like failure.

Exhibit A.

Supposedly the biggest tailwind to EV adoption is the inflation protection act. To get Manchins vote it includes all sorts of protectionist bullshit. It turns out this protectionist bullshit will be a huge headwind to EV adoption. LOL

The Inflation Reduction Act is screwing up the market for electric vehicles

Volkswagen unveiled a cheap new electric concept car, but protectionist policies mean it's not worthwhile for the company to introduce it in the U.S.

reason.com

From the latest I've read, libs are already not doing what Manchin wanted in the "act", for them to do (or seriously slow rolling it). Libs generally don't follow any law they don't want too, so I don't see this standing in their way.

Agree it will be reality, on many fronts, that does though.

 

[Kornilov]

People will comply and the small portion who don't will be "terrorists"

SO much common sense logic in this thread. Seriously! But.....the majority of Americans will comply with government directive/policies. It happened with Covid-19 back in 2020-2021. That "test" ensure future compliance. Sure, there would be pushback and resistance, but it will be a minority. That's a fact, whether we like it or not.

A Canadian and a deep blue stater. You guys have been mentally raped by Marxists and there is no desire to resist within you. You guys are like dogs that have been bred for docility.

What do you suggest we do? Just lay back and not fight? Freedom loving people will have to find ways to resist - from the incredibly small to the more broadly effective when the situation presents itself.

Remember, 200 unarmed nobodies, scaling walls and breaking windows had the Deep Staters trembling in fear. A small but motivated population of people determined to resist can accomplish alot.

However THIS is why its important to have R leaders with backbone. At some point, state Leaders will have to draw a line in the sand. We need more Hawley and DeSantis and less Romney and Graham (I understand 3 of the 4 are US Senators - but my point is until and unless we purge the R party of the Dales, Romneys, and other Ukraine simps) we will be left to our own devices to resist.

 

[black4vcobra]

A Canadian and a deep blue stater. You guys have been mentally raped by Marxists and there is no desire to resist within you. You guys are like dogs that have been bred for docility.

What do you suggest we do? Just lay back and not fight? Freedom loving people will have to find ways to resist - from the incredibly small to the more broadly effective when the situation presents itself.

Remember, 200 unarmed nobodies, scaling walls and breaking windows had the Deep Staters trembling in fear. A small but motivated population of people determined to resist can accomplish alot.

However THIS is why its important to have R leaders with backbone. At some point, state Leaders will have to draw a line in the sand. We need more Hawley and DeSantis and less Romney and Graham (I understand 3 of the 4 are US Senators - but my point is until and unless we purge the R party of the Dales, Romneys, and other Ukraine simps) we will be left to our own devices to resist.

Good post. I do believe that if the lockdown malarky is tried again there will be lead flying at the heads of certain politicians.

 

[Kornilov]

Good post. I do believe that if the lockdown malarky is tried again there will be lead flying at the heads of certain politicians.

I anticipate the introduction of CONUS IEDs for the purpose of keeping the Deep State operating forces well within their leftist Urban cocoons.

Mind you, the Federal government may have many guns, but the bulk of the armed Federal work force, is incapable of going out and conducting kinetic operations - they are either physically unfit or non proficient - outside their immediate areas of support - they would look like the Russian national guard stumbling through the streets of Kiev (and thats KEY-EHVV for you Dale).

 

[Adower]

Instead of trying to end ICE, they should put all those resources into trying to create fuel that is cleaner.

 

[Relaxed Chaos]

Instead of trying to end ICE, they should put all those resources into trying to create fuel that is cleaner.

This has been accomplished and is currently in production for a cost of about $4 per gallon. Probably be about $7 per gallon at the pump.

Porsche's Plan to Produce (Nearly) Carbon-Neutral Gasoline in Texas

With many governments banning the sale of new internal-combustion cars, Porsche and HIF Global think this synthetic gasoline is the answer to fueling our fleet.

jalopnik.com

 

[blk02edge]

A Canadian and a deep blue stater. You guys have been mentally raped by Marxists and there is no desire to resist within you. You guys are like dogs that have been bred for docility.

What do you suggest we do? Just lay back and not fight? Freedom loving people will have to find ways to resist - from the incredibly small to the more broadly effective when the situation presents itself.

Remember, 200 unarmed nobodies, scaling walls and breaking windows had the Deep Staters trembling in fear. A small but motivated population of people determined to resist can accomplish alot.

However THIS is why its important to have R leaders with backbone. At some point, state Leaders will have to draw a line in the sand. We need more Hawley and DeSantis and less Romney and Graham (I understand 3 of the 4 are US Senators - but my point is until and unless we purge the R party of the Dales, Romneys, and other Ukraine simps) we will be left to our own devices to resist.

The Canadians and the French were the only ones who actually made an attempt, you guys did **** all and now have a brain dead puppet and the most woke government to exist... but yes... please tell me how my Canadian opinion is invalid..

I'm sure if you right wing Americans keeping yelling at the internet to a small group who agrees with you that you'll eventually win something... maybe..

 

[Klaus]

The Canadians and the French were the only ones who actually made an attempt, you guys did **** all and now have a brain dead puppet and the most woke government to exist... but yes... please tell me how my Canadian opinion is invalid..

I'm sure if you right wing Americans keeping yelling at the internet to a small group who agrees with you that you'll eventually win something... maybe..

You get an A for effort. But fail nonetheless. Even in its current state the US is in far better shape than Canada.

Trudeau was turned into an emperor/god with the emergency powers act over ......... a trucker protest. Bank accounts were seized. Businesses were effectively confiscated for transacting with the protestors.

You had actual lockdowns. There was nothing approaching that in the US.

You face legal consequences for using the wrong pronouns.

If California were a country it would be Canada. Honestly Canada is worse than this. At least Gavin Newsom was recalled.

I deal professionally with Canadians and the ones that think they are conservative are cute. The most conservative oil patch Calgary roughnecks I can think of are the equivalent of center left in the US.

It is also funny that Canadians think they have America figured out based on their impressions from movies/a CBC broadcast/vacationing to Disneyworld or New York. You all do not know shit about America.

 

[Klaus]

Plant based meats are a good analogy to EVs in my opinion. When these first rolled out there was a lot of enthusiasm that these would capture market share from meat.

And based on the initial uptake this assessment seemed reasonable. It turns out the problem is that only 10% of the population actually wants these and that number has not budged since the roll out.

It turns out plant based meats were a huge failure because they could never expand past the zealots.

I see a parallel with EVs. As with plant based meats, the policy makers and media bubble are all in the zealot camp. They think there is actual demand for this product because everyone agrees with them. Outside the bubble there is no demand for this product. Hybrids are a good example. On the surface these seem like a great product but no one actually wants them and they have died as a category.

It is hard to see how brute government force does not backfire.

 

[GNBRETT]

There are 45 million ppl RENTING...... How will all these ppl charge their EV? The complete switch to EV wont happen in my lifetime. Its not feasibly possible smh.

 

[Weather Man]

Plant based meats are a good analogy to EVs in my opinion. When these first rolled out there was a lot of enthusiasm that these would capture market share from meat.

And based on the initial uptake this assessment seemed reasonable. It turns out the problem is that only 10% of the population actually wants these and that number has not budged since the roll out.

It turns out plant based meats were a huge failure because they could never expand past the zealots.

I see a parallel with EVs. As with plant based meats, the policy makers and media bubble are all in the zealot camp. They think there is actual demand for this product because everyone agrees with them. Outside the bubble there is no demand for this product. Hybrids are a good example. On the surface these seem like a great product but no one actually wants them and they have died as a category.

It is hard to see how brute government force does not backfire.

Some of the best deals for a new F-150 are on hybrids.

 

[Weather Man]

Japanese automakers could benefit from new agreement on battery minerals for EVs​

TM +0.54%Mar. 28, 2023 10:13 AM ET

Japanese automakers Toyota Motor Corporation (NYSE:TM), Nissan Motor (OTCPK:NSANY), Honda Motor (HMC), Subaru Corporation (OTCPK:FUJHY), Mitsubishi Motors (OTCPK:MMTOF) and Suzuki Motor (OTCPK:SZKMY) could benefit in the future from the deal worked out by the U.S. and Japan in connection with metals processed for electric vehicles qualifying for tax incentives under the Inflation Reduction Act. The two nations have agreed to not impose export duties on lithium, cobalt, manganese, nickel and graphite trading. The agreement was endorsed by Japan's Cabinet and has support in Washington, D.C.
Crucially, the agreement means that Japanese EVs could quality for tax credits of up to $7,500 per vehicle, even though Japan and the U.S. do not have a free trade agreement in place. The agreement could remove some uncertainty over how aggressive Japanese automakers will be in selling all-electric vehicles in the U.S.

 

[blk02edge]

You get an A for effort. But fail nonetheless. Even in its current state the US is in far better shape than Canada.

Trudeau was turned into an emperor/god with the emergency powers act over ......... a trucker protest. Bank accounts were seized. Businesses were effectively confiscated for transacting with the protestors.

You had actual lockdowns. There was nothing approaching that in the US.

You face legal consequences for using the wrong pronouns.

If California were a country it would be Canada. Honestly Canada is worse than this. At least Gavin Newsom was recalled.

I deal professionally with Canadians and the ones that think they are conservative are cute. The most conservative oil patch Calgary roughnecks I can think of are the equivalent of center left in the US.

It is also funny that Canadians think they have America figured out based on their impressions from movies/a CBC broadcast/vacationing to Disneyworld or New York. You all do not know shit about America.

You read too much CNN with those "facts" I was NEVER locked down and nobody other than nurses were forced to get a vaccine.

The frozen bank accounts etc. I chalk up to bullshit as well, didn't see any real facts backing that up and funny enough, only about 2 weeks after the tractor parade all mandates were lifted...

You have fallen for fake news as bad as Dale falls for Ukraine.

California is magnitudes worse than Canada in the real world.... not even close