Who has switched from a roots to centri or vise versa? Why?

[IUP99snake]

I'm just curious to know what people's real world experiences are with a centrifugal blower compared to a stock style roots blower running relatively conservative boost and HP levels of around 10-15PSI and 500HP +/- 100 or so.

I don't want this to be a debate about which one is better. This isn't about which setup has the most power "potential".

We're all familiar with the characteristics of either type of blower, as well as their pros and cons..

I just want to hear some experiences from some people that started out with any type of N/A car, and what they can share about overall driving style, how often you got into the boost (or needed to get into the boost) during everyday driving, or spirited driving). And if anyone switched from one setup to the other, why did you decide to do it? Are you happy?

Remember, this is for street applications. I want to know how happy people are with their setup on the street... not on the track, or the dyno.

I'll get us started. (Even though I've never had a positive displacement setup).

I have a P1SC procharger, 3.7" pulley, 4" powerpipe, Aviator longblock, and a few other random pieces. But for all intents and purposes, it's similar to a nearly stock Mach 1 with a Procharger.

With a procharger, it has great driveability, you barely notice it's there except for the menacing whine. Driving around town, I hardly ever have the need to bring it above 4000 RPM, which means I hardly ever get into the boost. Even if I'm passing, it has enough torque to pass a vehicle at reasonable speed without downshifting or getting into the boost.

When I do want to raise some boost-supplemented hell, I find it kind of a laborious and worrisome process. Before I even get into it, I worry about belt slip issues, especially in First and second gears, which are useless if I floor it.. I usually have to go about half throttle until third gear. Once in third, I have to floor it, let the revs climb, and only once I've reached redline, do I make peak boost. And then it's over quicker than it began.

My point being, I really have to push the car hard to get my money's worth out of the procharger.

I was looking over some datalogs with my AEM Failsafe Gauge the other day that logs Boost, A/F, and RPM. Everything is fine, but it only makes peak boost for a fraction of a second before I end the run.

I don't know if I'd be happier with a positive displacement blower (or even a turbo), but I would like to feel the benefits of a power adder more often without having to push it so hard.

Is there anyone with a daily driver who's happier with a centri over a positive displacement blower or vise versa? Why?

 

[coposrv]

How about running a wastegate on the cold side? You could pulley the blower for max rpm before belt slip and use the wastegate to bleed off the excess. Boost threshold will be reduced and you will feel the blower come on sooner.

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

This has been beaten to death I hate to say it. This is opening up another can of worms.. Here is the order of most efficient.

Turbo>Centri>T/S>Roots

 

[IUP99snake]

I don't care what's most efficient... Or best... This isn't about the manufacturers claims. This isn't about racing, or most HP, boost, or top speed. This isn't to convince anyone to buy anything.

I'm sure we're all familiar enough with forced induction about their characteristics on paper, on dyno charts, and in videos. We know the types of modifications and techniques to use in order to overcome some of the pitfalls with any type of forced induction to make it better against the others.

This is just about people's day to day experiences with forced induction, preferably from those who can compare different setups on the same motor running in the same daily driver.

What have you run before? What do you run now? Why? How did either any setup feel when driving around in your daily habits? What do you like it or dislike about it?

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

yea I clearly didn't read the entire post lol.. muh bad

 

[encasedmetal]

first of all- I will state that the OP's aggitation with his setup is due to the piss poor gearing of that headunit. A 5.40 geared procharger does not act that way. I had a kenne bell on my car previously and it was ok and way too smooth of a powerband, meaning it didn't give a "rushed" feeling when standing on the throttle. My setup now using the F1a is awesome- cause it starts making boost at 2200-2500rpm and doesn't stop till I pull out of it. Am I over the moon about centri's- not really but they're damn sure better than PD blower imo. that being said- driving around town in super short bursts I can see where the appeal is with peak tq at 2k rpm

 

[1QUICK10TH]

I switched from a kb 2.2 to a whipple 3.4 and then to an f1a. I do like the centri best but imo for most people on this site a twin screw is the way to go. They are simple, easy and provide the sensation that most are looking for. I've tried over and over again to explain to people how to get the best of both worlds out of a centri without much success. Op, go for the twin screw.

 

[ruthless]

All I have is a smart @$$ remark to this question. So if you dont want to hear stop reading now.

The answer is...Turbo and be done with it. :beer: Out of all the money I have wasted over the years messing with forced induction and swapping setups to gain a little here or there the turbo has been the only setup that has fit the bill with street and track performance for me. It might cost a bit more to start with but its a savings in the long run.

750 rwhp on a factory stock engine running 93 pump. That might even out against the cost of a centri with a built engine.

 

[Stanger00]

Than its all opinion. It's like reading movie reviews. You will not appreciated someone else's comments until you experience it yourself.

 

[ruthless]

Than its all opinion. It's like reading movie reviews. You will not appreciated someone else's comments until you experience it yourself.

Very true, then you have people that will still not listen to people that have had every setup. They just have to learn for them selves.

 

[tobynt]

I will attempt to provide feedback to the OP first question. The only aspect to the question that I do not fill is having two different types of forced induction on the same car. However, I have had two different types of forced induction on two different cars.

I have had a centrifugal on a fox and currently I have an Eaton M112 (Tork Tech Terminator kit) on my 2V.

I agree with the OP regarding emotions and opinion to the degree of why one may be better then the other. Tons of debatable information can be found on this site relating to thousands of post about applications and how to overcome deficits that one power adder may have over another.

The way I am reading the OP's original question.

"In ones experience on a daily (Non dedicated track use car) driver." "If someone has changed from one type of power adder to another, why?"

My experience was this. I had a Powerdyne on my fox. I had the same experience as the OP when using the car as my daily driver back and forth to work. Rarely did I get into boost and when I did....I also worried about throwing belts and slippage. While this was my daily driver...If I was to be honest, it was mainly used and built for the drag strip. I would spend a lot of weekends at the strip on Tuesday nights and Saturdays. After some time went by and the novelty of having a supercharger wore off. The car become very boring to drive. Life happened and I started skipping my drag nights for some quality time at home with my family.

For me, unless I was drag racing the car. It was actually a very boring car to drive. As the OP stated above, Its a rare day that you take a car to red line when it is your sole means of transportation.

I currently have a roots blower on my sn95. I have never tracked this car and I have had the blower installed for almost a year now. I still love to drive the car. I rarely floor the car and hardly take it to red line. The aspect I love the most about a positive displacement blower on a car that mainly sees the open road and/or a simple commute to work. The added power is always there and I feel it on a daily basis.

It is very easy to drive this car and see around 2-3 lbs of boost under normal driving conditions. While that isn't much added power. It is just enough to remind you that you have a beast on tap. Any road that has a slight enough incline for you to crack the throttle in order to maintain your current speed...you can tip it just a little more to feel the torque and pull that 2-3 lbs of boost. It will make you smile every time.

For me and my opinion. On a daily driver...positive displacement is the way to go. You don't have to get into the higher RPM range to have fun with the car and you absolutely do not have to floor it in order to remind you that something is there. Now, any type of heads up competition. Centrifugal or turbo. A positive displacement blower is just too violent out of the hole. Your only chance of winning a race will be playing catch up and passing them. 1st and 2nd gear are useless gears at anything over half throttle.

 

[truebluedevil02]

I will attempt to provide feedback to the OP first question. The only aspect to the question that I do not fill is having two different types of forced induction on the same car. However, I have had two different types of forced induction on two different cars.

I have had a centrifugal on a fox and currently I have an Eaton M112 (Tork Tech Terminator kit) on my 2V.

I agree with the OP regarding emotions and opinion to the degree of why one may be better then the other. Tons of debatable information can be found on this site relating to thousands of post about applications and how to overcome deficits that one power adder may have over another.

The way I am reading the OP's original question.

"In ones experience on a daily (Non dedicated track use car) driver." "If someone has changed from one type of power adder to another, why?"

My experience was this. I had a Powerdyne on my fox. I had the same experience as the OP when using the car as my daily driver back and forth to work. Rarely did I get into boost and when I did....I also worried about throwing belts and slippage. While this was my daily driver...If I was to be honest, it was mainly used and built for the drag strip. I would spend a lot of weekends at the strip on Tuesday nights and Saturdays. After some time went by and the novelty of having a supercharger wore off. The car become very boring to drive. Life happened and I started skipping my drag nights for some quality time at home with my family.

For me, unless I was drag racing the car. It was actually a very boring car to drive. As the OP stated above, Its a rare day that you take a car to red line when it is your sole means of transportation.

I currently have a roots blower on my sn95. I have never tracked this car and I have had the blower installed for almost a year now. I still love to drive the car. I rarely floor the car and hardly take it to red line. The aspect I love the most about a positive displacement blower on a car that mainly sees the open road and/or a simple commute to work. The added power is always there and I feel it on a daily basis.

It is very easy to drive this car and see around 2-3 lbs of boost under normal driving conditions. While that isn't much added power. It is just enough to remind you that you have a beast on tap. Any road that has a slight enough incline for you to crack the throttle in order to maintain your current speed...you can tip it just a little more to feel the torque and pull that 2-3 lbs of boost. It will make you smile every time.

For me and my opinion. On a daily driver...positive displacement is the way to go. You don't have to get into the higher RPM range to have fun with the car and you absolutely do not have to floor it in order to remind you that something is there. Now, any type of heads up competition. Centrifugal or turbo. A positive displacement blower is just too violent out of the hole. Your only chance of winning a race will be playing catch up and passing them. 1st and 2nd gear are useless gears at anything over half throttle.

This is a very good answer. Thank you. I to am having a problem deciding on what route I want to go this winter with my 2013 Coyote. I have driven an auto TVS car and WOW, it was fun. Took me back to when I had the 408 stroker fox body. I am going to drive my friends Paxton coyote in the next couple weeks once he gets the tune finished and then i will make my decision. But from my personal experience, the PD blower is more FUN to drive around with. The Centri is more FUN to race. Depending on what you do with the car is what should make your decision. I DD my car 30 miles per day, so I am leaning to the TVS right now.

 

[Sc0tty2h0ttie]

This has been beaten to death I hate to say it. This is opening up another can of worms.. Here is the order of most efficient.

Turbo>Centri>T/S>Roots

You forgot the most efficient of power adders... Spray>*

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

You forgot the most efficient of power adders... Spray>*

Yea I did forget about that. Spray is awesome if you don't mind filling up bottles.. :banana:

 

[tobynt]

:??: I must have missed something, where did the order of efficiency and/or NOS fit into the conversation?

 

[Chances50]

I havent owned both but I have owned a centri car and drove my buddys KB cars and for my personal taste the centri was funner hands down. I didn't have to take it to redline to enjoy it. The car made 631rwhp 528rwtq and was a blast at 1/4-1/2 throttle 4k rpm blasts. The key to a centri blower is gearing in the rear. I had 4.10's and 3.27's the 4.10's made the car a blast but 60-125 goes quick with that kinda power. So I tried the 3.27's jist for the fun of it. They changed the character of the car completely it was a monster at WOT but left me missing my 4.10's around town.

Also want to add the KB cars are fun to drive but to me they felt dead after 4500rpm. One was a 438/428 car the other 545/460. They just seemed like a bottle rocket shot of real fast then pop it was over. Where as the centri was going to pull you harder in the seat the longer you stayed into it.

 

[01yellercobra]

I drove my buddies ported eaton for a couple days while he was in Vegas. It was fun to drive. Had that initial hit when goosing. But I had just as much fun driving my car with the centri in it. I think the biggest issue is how the blowers are pullied. Most people only want 10psi out of a blower. So a centrifugal is going to feel lazy when pullied like that. When you start spinning a centrifugal harder you don't have to turn the motor as much to get boost. With my pulley combo I would see boost between 3000 and 3500 and it would really take off at 4K. Very rarely would I go to redline. Mostly because the on ramps weren't that long.

When I first put everything together I did have some issues with the belt being thrown. Once I found the problem I didn't have any more issues. I put around 15k on that combo. It was my daily for a couple years in the set up. I even took it on long trips with no issues.

 

[crazycarlo]

Ill try to shed some of my light on this subject. However its very subjective and user oriented. I myself did not own both setups. However I have driven 2 similar boosted cars back to back.

Car 1) My car. 1998 cobra stock longblock. Vortech S-trim. FMIC setup in blow through config and tuned. Making 433 at the rear wheels on 9-10lbs

Car 2) Friends car. 2003 Mach 1, Eaton swap. Stock longblock. Car was seeing 10lbs and 460 RWHP (we attributed the HP to the compression and 98 cams)

I drove both cars back to back. I loved my car and I loved the whistle and the blow off I got. Unlike some people I didnt need to spin it to redline to make full boost. In 1st and 2nd gear if I floored it the boost was instant. It was very tame around town and u didnt notice the blower unless u pressed the gas. However I did notice that when I added teh big intercooler the air passing over the A/C condensor must have been blocked. My A/C didnt get as cold as it did before with no other changes to the car except the FMIC.

I drive my friends car and loved it mainly for the reasons other people love it. The power was instant. Could be good or bad I guess. Another reason I went with the eaton swap was that the parts were mass made by ford. So if I had a problem with one I knew I could order it from FORD. The only downside would be price.

There are pros and cons to both setups. I changed mine from the vortech to the eaton for a few reason. 1) The A/C issue mentioned above. 2) It seems that built motor 03 cars bring slightly higher profit when they are resold as compared to standard s-trim cars. 3) The suprise factor. Now alot of Mustang guys might be able to tell with the hood closed whats underneath but most other car guys will just assume its another bolt on 98 cobra until they hear the eaton screaming. Here are some pics and mods for Both.

Vortech S-Trim. 42lb Injectors, Bassani o/r X, Bassani catback, HPX Maf, RFL BOV. 10lbs. 433 Rwhp

[/IMG]

New Setup. Eaton Swap. 01 cobra Heads, Ported Eaton, Throttle Body and plenum. 60lb injectors, 340 fuel pump. FRPP shorty Headers. Same Exhaust. SCT BA2400 MAF. Billetflow Idlers. Forged Shortblock. Metco 4lb lower. 2.76 Upper. Head cooling Mod.

[/IMG]

 

[Alex01]

edit:
I have a twin screw kb, its in the sig but i guess i should mention that

Haven't had a centrifugal blower...but I can compare my setup to what you described..
I can make max boost as soon as i go wide open throttle....or if i stay 3/8 ish throttle i make 5-6 psi...and if i go 3/4 i make 10-12 until the RPM climbs then i make peak... point being it's really responsive to throttle input. Also, I really love the fact that i can make 15 psi from 2k to redline if i mat it.

 

[NestorGT]

I never owned a centi sc but before I decided to get my root style I drove a few stangs that had either a Vortex or a Procharger and then I drove and 04 pullyed cobra. I think it was like 4 cars with centri vs one cobra that I drove.... They were all making about the same power 460-480rwhp. I had a hell of a time deciding and here are my pros and cons

Pros for the centris were that they were cheaper, able to make a bit more power with less boost(less paracitic loos) and you can make several passes before they heat up too much wich makes them great for the track. Cons were the time it took for them to spool up at low lvl boost and those danm belts breaking all of the time.
Pros for the root style were no belts breaking, instant boost and power and just plain fun for a daily driver. Cons they get heat soaked pretty fast therefore you loose power. Maybe not enough for you to notice on the street but it will show on the track and also need more boost to match the power that a centri can accomplish at a lower lvl.
My deciding factor was that my car is my daily driver and man ot feels like a beast at any time at any rmp including 2k rpms. Both of my setups have had no less than 500 rwtq at about 2k! You wont get that from a centri at 2k....

Hope this helps bro, good luck.