Whipple supercharger noise Help?

Joe 69

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Last week the serpentine belt broke leaving me stranded on the road. The original serpentine belt was a KO60891RPM.

I spoke with Whipple and they sent me a new belt tensioner and serpentine belt KO61066.
Just finished the install. Tension is correct. The belt mounting plate and the job went very smooth.

Started the car yesterday and today and I’m getting a loud knocking noise from the supercharger pulley area. When I put an extension bar to my ear against the super charger behind the super charger pull I can hear the knock.


Please click on the video link to hear noise…


Thoughts, is it a belt noise (tensioner) supercharger bearing?

Any insight would be great.

Thanks Joe
 

Joe 69

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Update Just want to share incase anyone else runs in to this issue.

The idler pulleys mounted on the plate below the supercharger pulley have side play. If I remove the belt and I grab each pulley one at a time they have a very slight side-to-side wiggle.

Looks like two of them wiggle a bit more then the other. When it wiggles it makes a knocking sound. I’ll know more in a few days and post back.

Just wondering,... if having a belt too tight can cause the pulley bearings to wear? Any thougts on this?

Thanks, Joe
 

Joe 69

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Finally, found the problem. The belt tensioner has a damper inside that is no good.

Here are two additional Youtube videos that show us checking for the noise issue. Hope this helps others who may encounter belt tensioner noise.


 

Sportin' Wood

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Hey Joe,
The movement on the idler pulleys if minimal is just bearing free rock due to clearances in the bearing cage, no big deal and normal. How much load did you set on the belt tensioner. I believe the Whipple instructions say to use 80% tension which is way too much for the Gates rpm belts. Look around the site there is a write up by Fishpick about this. I also snapped my belt at the track with the original setting 80% and cast tensioner. Received the billet one with new standoffs for the mount plate (with a slightly different heights) and set the tension about 40% on the new belt. It's close to the tensioner body but does not touch and has been flawless. I'd look at your tension setup again, hard to tell in the pics but looks like it may be set too tight. This will lead the idler bearings too much. Hope this makes sense


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Joe 69

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Hi ..SW

Thanks for chiming in. Whipple sent me a new belt tensioner and everything is working fine now. The first replacement belt tensioner was defective. No more noise. I’m still not sure why they updated the belt routing.

I read through Fishpicks belt tensioner threads and I’m trying to draw some conclusions…

My subjective thoughts… I am no expert...but, this might shed some light..

The original RPM belt (GATES K06891RPM) Whipple supplied with the old tensioner was shorter then the replacement non-RPM belt. The RPM belt is 89-5/8’’ long. This belt had a different routing then the new belt. I think this is where Whipple went wrong….The instructions show the belt tensioner clocked at 80% tension (about 10-O’clock). From what I’m reading this is too tight for this type of belt because, the RPM belt is less pliable (stiffer) then the regular belt. The clocking should have been at 40% tension with the RPM belt (about 8-O’clock). Since the tension was to stiff the belt snapped. Just my thought, Whipple should have supplied a longer RPM belt with the shorter belt routing to clock the tensioner in the correct position 40% to avoid breakage. (But they decided to reinvent the wheel). The RPM belt K060891RPM is hard to find and also very expensive if you find one around $150.

Forward,..Whipple now up dated the belt tensioner, support stands for the idler pulley plate and belt. The new belt has a different routing and is a non RPM-belt (more pliable) This new belt is a Gates K061066 and is now 107 1/8’’ long, much longer then the RPM belt and cheaper about $23.00. With this belt, the tensioner is now set at 80% clocked at (about 10-O’clock). This is the correct tension for this type of belt.

New Problem…. since the new belt has a different routing it is hard to get the proper tension adjustment. When you move the adjustment idler pully to get the correct tension the belt comes in contact with the belt run from the alternator to the crank. Another words, lowering the belt adjustment idler pulley to get the proper tension causes the belt to rub against itself. Hope this makes sense. I have the adjustment idler pulley set with the belt about a ¼ away from hitting the belt run from the alternator to the crank. This still seems to loose for my likening.

I just order a new Gates NON-RPM belt K061058; according to Gates this belt is 7/8 shorter then the K061066 belt. This might help take up the slack in the adjustment.

It seems like people are using an RPM belt in the longer run but, I’m no sure which part number they are using.

Hope all that made sense. Try just trying to give people some insight if they are planning on going the 2.9 Whipple route.

Joe
 
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GNBRETT

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I experienced the same BS with my TVS. belt slip, belt breakage leaving me stranded in another state actually smh, bearings in pulley shot had to be replaced, heat sink, etc.... never again! seems to be common problems with the Whipple but the Whipple blower itself tends to go bad as well needing rebuild kits.
 

Sportin' Wood

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When i replaced my belt i used the original length belt. I'm about 40%ish tension, with my adjustable idler set almost as loose as possible. Lots of room for adjustment.
What new routing are you referring to? This is what I'm using
43152d7984b5102c8e1b5d92da2862b1.jpg




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Joe 69

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SW,


That is the way I had the belt run originally…But……..

When Whipple updated the tensioner they updated the belt routing system. Basically, they went back to the way Ford had it with the exception of the supercharger setup. Here is a picture that Fishpick provided. This picture shows the new belt routing.
Mustang Belt run two.png


1. I told them instead of replacing the Dayco Tensioner (the first tensioner) and RPM belt,.. Just revise the instruction manual and have the tension set at 40% instead of 80% they said HUH!


2. I said why not use a non-RPM belt (not as stiff) the same length as the RPM belt and set the tensioner at 80%. They said HUH!


3. I said why use a belt at all; I’ll just get my flippin close line and make a belt. Now I’ve got....Two brains twice as dumb trying to solve this.

They said,.. the new belt tensioner, plate stands and longer non-RPM belt must be used to keep things in warranty. The problem I’m having, as mentioned above, is the belt they provide is to long. Right now the tension is set ok (see above thread) but, there is no more adjustment. A shorter belt would be needed.

I’m not sure why they insist on the new belt routing and why they don’t want to use a RPM belt. ..(Probably because the RPM belts cost some bucks$$$).

My feeling is…… use a NON-RPM belt and route it the way you have it and set it at 80%. This routing allows for plenty of adjustment. Also, by using a non-RPM (less-stiff) belt the tension is a little more forgiving, less critical.
 

Sportin' Wood

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I was never told to revise my belt routing. The layout you show i wouldn't use as the tensioner is the 4th routing item in the fead and would do a sh!tty job providing tension under load. The tensioner is generally the first routing after the crank or as close to as possible due to inertia. The belt will tend to walk off the slack side of the pulley of high inertia components and the tensioner will adjust to take up this slack. Look at the original fead layout. The second tensioner is right after the alternator as it is a high inertia component.
I sticking with the original fead layout and the rpm belt. If I have any problems I'll try the different routing.

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Sportin' Wood

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Another thing with the regular belt versus the rpm ones to be concerned with is belt flutter under load. The routing in your image proves no clearance for it. Likely will rub under load. The rpm belt being stiffer would likely be more stable imo.

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Joe 69

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Just a thought…If the tensioner is clocked in the correct position for a specific belt type, RPM flutter should be reduced because, correct tension is being applied. If going with an RPM belt set it at 40%. An RPM belt set at 80% (incorrect tension) will cause it to snap that is what started this mess.

If you clock the tensioner at 80% and use a regular belt the tension should be correct. I have put the car through the belt torture test with the new routing and non-RPM belt and it seems fine. This routing is what came stock on the car and prior to the supercharger, I had that engine screaming and it never lost a belt.

To your point, the new routing sucks because of the lack of adjustment. That is why I ordered shorter belt for the new routing.

Whichever belt you choose (regardless of belt routing) RPM or regular just make sure the belt tensioner is set correctly for the belt type.

SW..Just for clarification are you using the Gates K06891RPM belt with the new tensioner and plate spacers?

The thing I can’t figure out is why Whipple updated the belt tensioner in the first place.

It seems that with updating the tensioner they had to update the plate spacers to keep things inline.
 

Sportin' Wood

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Yes correct, I am using the K06891 belt with billet tensioner and new standoffs. The cast dayco tensioner had terrible offset with the spacer and was likely just a production OE assy. I suspect it was pitching over under load. I also think maybe the spacer heights were also affecting belt alignment and tracking. 80%tension is really to much and leaves very little room before you'll hit the stops.
My car is away for the winter so my belt torture test will continue next season. I bought a spare belt which will go to the track with me next season just in case.
Good luck with your setup

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