Which turbo for my needs?

[cook2456]

Here is what I want in a turbo kit for my future 03' Cobra. Need some talking out here... so, which turbo?

550 rwhp/550 rwtq for my basic pump gas tune, 91 octane. I would like to achieve that w/ just 8-10 psi.

I also want to have the simple ability to up the boost via a electronic boost controller from between 11-19 psi. I want the turbo to be efficient to 825 rwhp w/ race gas if I so desired it, which would probably never happen. I would like a 700 rwhp ability that is easy for the turbo.

I also dont want to wait long for boost. If I get in it at 2500, I would like full boost by 3000.

What is my best compromise here:

T-70 with a .68 A/R or a T-72 with a .81 A/R

or,

T-76 Q-TRIM BALL BEARING WITH A .96 a/r

The 4.6 is going to have a Boss330 or MP short block, and the heads will have a VJ and have the chambers/ports cleaned up. I will stay with the stock cams, although I am going to upgrade springs and put in bronze guides.

I know the smaller turbos would spool much quicker, but can a T-70 @ 17psi be equivalent to a Kenne Bell @ 21 psi?

I would rather sacrifice a little spool time for turbo efficiency. Like I said, I want a 550 rwhp Cobra for a daily driver, but want simple ability to play at a much higher level.

I would prefer a single set-up. I want to keep the cost of the turbo kit to @ $7000. That $$ wont include fuel upgrades/motor work. Just the price of the turbo kit.


What would you do?

 

[postban]

t66 and a hellion setup would be my suggestion.

 

[badcobra]

....or Twin 50's.

But why sell the Mach and get a Cobra to do this project? I don't see the benefit when you are going to put a new shortblock in, and it already has a solid axle. Drop a T-56 in and be done.

 

[cook2456]

Keep Mach?

So, would it be more cost efficient to keep the Mach, and have the built shortblock put in it along with the turbo system? I was thinking the 03' Cobra had the majority of the fuel system where it needed to be and that I would have less money in the Cobra than I would the Mach.

Would twin 50's or 57's be as good on the street compared to a T-70, T-72, or T-76?

What would I need to put a turbo on the Mach? What would be my list of parts I need extra compared to the Cobra?

 

[TRBO VNM]

any kit you need to convert to a 99-01 cobra intake/Mach 1 is money you would not have to spend since you have all those parts already. it will be hard to find a kit aside from the 66 to get full boost by 3k. I am not too familiar with the twin 50's or 57's, so they might spool fast enough.

I also don't think with a single 66 or 76 you will see 550 at 8-10#. I saw like 470rwhp and 49x rwtq. something around that. that was with a 76mm and .81 a/r. I don't know what it would do now with the .96 a/r. I see full boost by 4-4300rpm. I probably see 550 or so at 12-13# based on the graphs below.

car drives great on the street as well. I am still working out some launching bugs, but I am running the mph. should have it all worked out this week with the MSD ignition and 2-step.

I am 99% sure hellion has a kit for the Mach.

I hit 700/700 at just over 20# of boost. I run 10-15# on the street. here is a link to some of my graphs for the 76mm/.81 a/r

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244098&highlight=dyno

here is a link after I put the .96 a/r on.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263102

oh yeah, fuel. no, the cobra does not come with the fuel system you would need. I have

60# injectors
SCT BA2800 MAF
-8an fuel line upgrade
twin aviator fuel pumps
modified FPDM(Fuel Pump Drive Module) to accept the aviator pumps
KB BAP(boost a pump) with wire upgrade

 

[smashedheadcat]

If you have twin 50's and you hammer the gas at 2500 in second gear, you will have full boost by 3000rpms, no questions asked. I'm running around with 12psi. I don't think it'd get to 20psi by 3000, but definately by 3300-3500. As long as the 50's are over 3000rpms the boost response is almost as quick as an eaton. I'd expect similar spooling results with the hellion t-66. However I feel the twin 50's will out perform the t-66 hellion on the top end rather easily (20+psi). I'm just basing this off of the t-76 hellion results, so don't take that as gospel. I don't know of anyone that has tried to push a t-66 up that high on an '03 cobra.

 

[cook2456]

Great responses.

Im re-thinking keeping the Mach again.

I think I like the look of the Cobra more, but there is that extra weight and the fact I already have a solid axle.

OK, so if I go with a Hellion kit, could I run anything inbetween a T-66 and a T-76? I am thinking a T-70 with a .81 a/r would perform pretty well for what I am wanting.

How does your twin 50 kit perform? Have you got any dyno graphs for your combo?

I want to be able to out perform a KB or a Whipple at = psi.

I would consider twins, but isnt it going to be more of a pain in the ass to install?

What fuel mods would I need to do for the Mach to support my power level?

 

[smashedheadcat]

My twin 50 kit performs great. 8-psi was 494/494 with 17-18 deg timing and an 10.0-10.5 a/f ratio. At 12psi I've got 560/570 before the tires spin on the dyno. I've got 4.30's so dynoing for numbers is a chore. I'm switching to a set of 3.55's to help keep the turbos loaded. As for installing the twins..... I'm sure it's no harder than a single. Just need to get the pipes in the right position and then you're in there.

 

[cook2456]

Thanks for the reply. What benefits/differences would be going with twin 50's or twin 57's be on the street? Does having a bigger turbo make a difference below 5K or is the extra airflow only beneficial above 4500-5K? I want the quick boost, but I also want to have some big top end if I want 20+ psi. Would a T66 out perform a T76 below 4K? 4th gear, 2500 roll-on. What would have the advantage to 5K? A smaller turbo or a larger one? What differences inbetween a smaller turbo vs a larger turbo is there when the boost comes on?

What kit do you run for your twin 50's? You said HP? Good company? Did you do it yourself or have your tuner/builder put everything together for you?

I am still leaning towards a single T70 sized turbo. The twins with quicker spooling sound good as well though.

How long did it take to tune?

 

[Needcobra]

Im in the same boat you are. Im going with hellion t-76(single) But look at all the turbo kits and see whats best for you.

 

[cook2456]

NeedCobra, what made you decide the 76 over a faster spooling 66 or 70? Is it the power you will have when boost comes on compared to a smaller turbo, or do you just want an overall higher hp potential?

How much hp would twin 50's produce @ 12 psi? What about 17 and 22 psi?

How much hp would twin 57's produce?

How much hp difference is there between a T66 and a T76 @ 17 psi?

 

[Needcobra]

Higher hp potential if i wanted it. When i go to the track i wanna be able to make good hp. Or if its SAFE on the street turn boost up a little and make good numbers. I dont have the kit now im buy early this week, so i don't have numbers to give you. I put a lot of thought in to what i wanted to do.

 

[cook2456]

OK. Is it possible to buy a turbo head unit of the choice I want, and then the kit to complete it from a company such as HP or Hellion?

How much is a complete kit with twin 50's?

How much is the complete kit with a single ball bearing 66? What about 76?

Thanks for the help people. I appreciate it.

I am thinking the twins would be best.

Which power comes on the smoothest? Twins or a single?

 

[smashedheadcat]

My car put down 560/570 at 12psi. But the graph was on it's way up then it'd just spin really bad. I'm expecting 650 to the wheels at 15psi with 15* timing and a 11.5 a/f. This is with HP twin 50mm turbos. I went with the 50's because of one particular car. It had twin 50s and it put down 800+ rwhp with 22 psi and 12* timing. I looked at some numbers from the guys with the 57's and they had similar numbers (some slightly more, some slightly less). So if I could get 800rwhp with 22psi and 12* timing with the twin 50's........ why would I need to upgrade to the 57's?? If I was going for a 1000rwhp car, I would have twin 60's. Someone told me a long time ago, pick a turbo that meets all the goals you could ever want to accomplish, then step down 1 size. LOL So that's what I did. As for smoothness...... that's more of an electronic boost controller function. I can have mine come on slow or just hammer in. The 50's like to hammer the power in like "right now" so I used the boost controller to slow the boost curve down.

 

[TRBO VNM]

My car put down 560/570 at 12psi. But the graph was on it's way up then it'd just spin really bad. I'm expecting 650 to the wheels at 15psi with 15* timing and a 11.5 a/f. This is with HP twin 50mm turbos. I went with the 50's because of one particular car. It had twin 50s and it put down 800+ rwhp with 22 psi and 12* timing. I looked at some numbers from the guys with the 57's and they had similar numbers (some slightly more, some slightly less). So if I could get 800rwhp with 22psi and 12* timing with the twin 50's........ why would I need to upgrade to the 57's?? If I was going for a 1000rwhp car, I would have twin 60's. Someone told me a long time ago, pick a turbo that meets all the goals you could ever want to accomplish, then step down 1 size. LOL So that's what I did. As for smoothness...... that's more of an electronic boost controller function. I can have mine come on slow or just hammer in. The 50's like to hammer the power in like "right now" so I used the boost controller to slow the boost curve down.

very good info.

I would like to learn how to use my controller a bit more. I mainly am just using it to increase boost. it has a bunch of other features I think would be beneficial, but I haven't even bothered trying to learn yet.

 

[TRBO VNM]

OK. Is it possible to buy a turbo head unit of the choice I want, and then the kit to complete it from a company such as HP or Hellion?

How much is a complete kit with twin 50's?

How much is the complete kit with a single ball bearing 66? What about 76?

Thanks for the help people. I appreciate it.

I am thinking the twins would be best.

Which power comes on the smoothest? Twins or a single?

as smashedheadcat said, you can change the smoothness with the controller.

check out hellions site for the pricing on their kits. they also have add-ons and deletions to help customize the kit to your needs/wants.

www.hellionpowersystems.com

 

[smashedheadcat]

I'm not sure of the boost controller you have, but I have the turbosmart eboost (the first one). Playing with the sensitivity setting can really slow down or speed up how the boost curve comes on. Next time you are on the dyno, play with this setting.

 

[HAVEIGHT 13R]

Turbo Venom I have some old Emails, I will forward you about how to setup that boost controller to use it to its full potential. I just need to go to my moms and get them out of a old account I have,
HE has the Blitz SBC Id

 

[TRBO VNM]

Turbo Venom I have some old Emails, I will forward you about how to setup that boost controller to use it to its full potential. I just need to go to my moms and get them out of a old account I have,
HE has the Blitz SBC Id

well get on it Matt. I already have grey hair. oke:

 

[cook2456]

Thanks guys. Havent had connectivity for almost the past week.

It seems like I am going to go with twin 50's.

Is the HP kit as good as the Hellion kit for fit and ease of installation?

Any more pro/cons in having either the twins over the single?

Thanks for the help once again.