which is better?WHIPPLE?KENNY BELL? SALEEN/ROUSH?TURBO?

[pbm.cc]

Well basically thats the question?

if supercharged wich charger to go with?

kenny bell?

saleen?

roush?

whipple? (i am leaning towards this!)

vortec?

procharger?

novi?

turbo/s?

Car is stock bottom end... c&l intake and mass air meter, underdrive pullies, flows.

what would you go for? (goal is 500+rwhp)

 

[millerc73]

My car makes right at 500rwhp on 11#s with my turbo setup. I plan on upgrading the fuel system and injectors and turning it up even a bit more on the stock motor, I believe I can make 550-575 safely with good gas and the motor should last. I would not feel the same way if I had a supercharger, especially if it was a roots or twin screw as they are just less efficient than a turbo and it would take more boost and more stress on the engine than the turbo will to make that power. My turbo has NO, I repeat NO noticible lag and I'm at full boost by 2800 rpm and over 500rwtq by 3500 RPM. The twin screw will hit a bit harder of the punch but that puts alot of stress on the engine and driveline, a turbo comes on hard as well but it is less stressful to the engine and driveline. If you have the chance, take a ride in a supercharged car and then a turbo car, I guarantee you it will help you make up your mind.

 

[pbm.cc]

what kind of turbo kit do you have? twins? or a single? what size turbo? and I thought that 10lbs of boost was max on these motors?

 

[millerc73]

I have a single 67mm turbo kit from powerhouse automotive. All motors and forms of forced induction are not created equal. There are alot of "maximum numbers" floating around all over the internet. People say that 450rwhp or 10#s are max because that's what a handfull of others have blown up at, who knows what fuel they were running, if their tune was good etc.... there are alot of variables. I'm willing to push the envelope to see what I can get out of it, I normally run around town on 9#s making just over 450rwhp and 500rwtq on pump gas and feel good with this setup, I just want to turn it up on occasion.

 

[Oman_cobra]

eithetr the KB or turbo's
but why i like the KB ?
http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/gt05-06_3v/gt05-06_3v.htm
if intercooled @ 8 psi

 

[1Bad3v]

The safest way is going to be Turbo, this is also the most expensive way to get to 500 rwhp. I went with a whipple and at 10 psi I put 490 to the ground, not quite 500 but close enough for me. The whipple came shipped to my door for $5225. Keep in mind this also comes with the GT 500 fuel pumps which you're pretty much going to need if you want to see 500 hp.

 

[Thump_rrr]

What do you consider best?

Best tune/HP out of the box?

Best HP potential?

Best upgradability?

In general

All twinscrews will produce less HP and considerably less TQ than a turbo system.

Manual transmission equipped twinscrews producing 450+ RWHP on S197's have been bending and breaking tensioners.

There is a billet tensioner developed specifically for the S197 to solve this problem.

You can find out more by >>>clicking here<<<

Saleen

I went with the Saleen for 1 reason and that was because there wasn't a tuner around here in Montreal that I trusted.
With the Saleen blower JDM have a stellar track record.

The biggest problem with the Saleen is that since it was originally designed for 4.5 psi they didn't take the time to design the belt routing for the least possible amount of belt slip.

They also didn't include any fuel upgrades since there is no requirement for that HP level.

People say that the Saleen has limited potential since it cannot produce more than 15-16 psi of boost.

I have yet to see a built 3V twinscrew run faster than JDM's Saleen equipped windveil car which is right around the 10.0 mark

JDM's Ultimate Saleen Supercharger Kit includes the following for $5400.00

Saleen Series VI Supercharger
SCT Xcal2 programmer w/ Custom JDM tune
JDM cold air intake
90mm mass air and adapter harness
Saleen Extreme inlet tube
39 lb/hr injectors
Choice of pulley (3.6,3.4,or 3.2)3.2 requires fuel system
Belt
Vacuum line upgrade kit
Autolite HTO pre gapped plugs (Normally not with this kit! $112.50 value)


Whipple

I have seen people purchase the 500hp whipple kit for the same price.

On the + side it comes with the FRPP GT500 fuel system which is worth around $700 including a second FPDM.

It can make much more boost than the Saleen.

On the minus side you don't have an X-Cal II to reflash tunes so one will be needed if you want to upgrade or datalog etc.

Whipple also doesn't offer an auto tune for the H.O. kit AFAIK

The other negative is that whipple jacks around with the fuel pressures and doesn't run the standard 39psi differential pressures.

Here is a quote from Jim Jr. on this.

"Well the problem with using any injectors that come with the whipple kits is you will need to turn up the fuel pressure in the tune to have a safe air fuel in the upper RPM. By doing this you get some driveability issues, its a band aid. We use 48# injectors and thats hands down plenty enough fuel with out bumping up the fuel pressure.


I really doubt its 39#s that come in the whipple kit, as whipple says they are #38s and thats what i saw on the kit we had. They were enough for about 425-430 RWHP but when we crested 440 RWHP they hit full duty cycle and the car leaned out, we had two options at that point 1) bump the pressure or 2) go with a bigger injector. Keeping the 38#s would have ran them near full duty cycle all the time when your WOT. With the 48#s they are no where near full duty cycle.

Our tune obviously performs as we went 11.5's on a mild tune! I dont know many whipple cars running those times so they speak for them selves.

Our tune may not give you more HP than the standard whipple tune, but i can gaurantee better driveabilty, throttle response, and better track times. With our tune and the 48#s.


The automatic cars is really why i made this post becasue Whipple doesnt do one and ours kicks ASS!!"


Kenne Bell

On the - side you can't shop for a bargain if you're doing your own install since you can't purchase one anywhere other than Kenne Bell.

A boost a pump isn't as good as the FRPP GT500 setup that comes with the Whipple

Nobody else sells that belt length and they rape you something like $75.00 for it.

On the + side big potential for growth.

Turbo systems

More RWHP/RWTQ per PSI of boost.

No belt or tensioner issues.

Easier to launch a manual car as boost comes on more smoothly.

On the - side

Very few emissions legal systems out there.

More complicated install

More underhood heat issues.

 

[Cobra-O]

^^ Wow. Nice post. I'm in the same boat. Thanks for the info.

 

[JoePac]

All of them will be planty for a stock bottom end s-197. I picked kb!

 

[Mach1USMC]

Turbos are more expensive but allow for more tuning options and are way more efficient. I'd say if money wasn't an object go Turbo...or better yet TT.

If cheap HP is your goal and you plan to leave it alone after you do the install go Centri.

Instant "seat-o-the-pants" dyno KB or Whipple. Middle of the road pricing.

Lot's of variables....budget, goals, usage- ie: street, strip, DD, roadracing etc. FI is good but some are better than others depending on what the application is.

 

[MattP 343]

A lot of people are saying turbos are really expensive but if you shop around, you can find some nice kits that are reasonably priced...check out modularfords.com and search the s197 forums

 

[Thump_rrr]

A lot of people are saying turbos are really expensive but if you shop around, you can find some nice kits that are reasonably priced...check out modularfords.com and search the s197 forums

The price of turbo kits isn't the problem. It's finding a competent tuner in your area which knows the S197.
These cars are more complicated to tune than any other stang before them due to the additional parameters for the Variable Cam Timing or(VCT).

I have been researching turbo kits and the problem is they all need to be tuned. I spoke with Mike Bowen of Powerhouse last week and I was told that the tune that comes with the turbo package is very soft and super safe but the car should get dyno tuned afterwards.
Unfortunately there are probably 10 places in the whole USA that I would trust to properly tune the car.

 

[Rick@Amazon]

I really like the turbo systems in the 3V cars. Very easy to make power. Here is a pic of a Hellion system we finished up today.

Rick

 

[MattP 343]

What boost # is the Saleen efficient too? (Without doing more harm then good)

 

[ModMike1572]

I'm a big Twin Screw fan. Cant go wrong with a KB or Whipple.