The biggest issue with the DCT debate is assuming even 1 person in the world is going to be "racing" their gt500 (road course). We have 20 members at our 3.5 mile course with ZL1 1LE's and the amatuers with seat time are starting to get VERY consitent lap times. DCT is simply easier to drive and allows left foot braking. As for road cars on lapping days once you have seat time the difference really is minor and the joy comes with personal preference. "Better" is just a wrong word to use here
We need Ford/SVT to hear our voices... 2020 GT500 manual transmission petition/request/thread
- Thread starter carguy19
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Ehh.. i see what your getting atbut "better" isnt subjective.
Does dct provide mechanical advantages over true auto or manual? Yes. Better
Does it provide mental advantages, as in driver focus? Yes.Better
Does it provide consistency advantages? Yes.Better.
On an individual standpoint, its better. All 3 points combined, vs either or other option, it has even BETTER advantages
And in what case is consitency so critical for track days? Its actually really not hard to be consitent with a manual anyway, if its that tough for someone then they are a shit driver and likely nowhere near the correct braking zones and will be far slower than what the car is capable of regardless of dct/auto/manual. On a road course its a very suprising thing how little shift speed matters too. I can go around powershifting like a fool and be 0% faster than if I go around shifting like grandma.
You would no where near consistent in an manual as you are in an auto in terms of bracket racing.
I have no dog in a straight line discussion, as far as road course goes, personally I am exactly as consistent in a manual as I am in a dual clutch
Yeah I have no dog in that fight, only drag raced. lol
Can you guarantee your shifts, gas clutch brake input are exactly as you intended on every change for any random lap?
Because its the internet you will likely respond with yes, but in reality we all know its a no. Your best lap of your life.. "whoops, fuked that 1 last shift up.." damn, I was on a roll too"
Consistency is the #1 factor in ANY race or speed competition
2nd, your on the assumption that EVERYONE is a pro level shifter..we know thats not happening. So what your saying without knowing it, is an novice driver will now be able to focus on driving and improve their times, based solely on transmission..
Phew.. thats a mighty strong statement froma halo car.. im.sure that wont resonate with buyers..AT...ALL..
Yea, I can, heres my last session from sunday, the first 33 is my out lap, 2nd 33 is stuck in race traffic. Spec miata with tired notchy 200k mile tranny. My 99 viper GTS data is the same. Getting shifts right is far easier than getting your braking zones, trail braking and just having the nut sack to go as fast as cars really can. Having a dual clutch doesnt really help as much as most think. The slowest people are the people out there trying to bang gears like a 60's drag racer lol.
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Always an excuse from manual drivers.. it was a cold lap, there was traffic, a b c etc etc
I wonder how much faster u could have been with a real race transmission...
Post up the rest of the screen and the viper. Id love to see the consistency on a higher hp car
An out lap is an excuse? Do you know what an out lap is? I guess saying that 4:22 was my cool down lap and drive off to paddock is also an excuse? I will get data with my own Harrys lap timer on the viper next weekend for you then.
Also, cold laps are an excuse for anyone no matter the tranny... Do you think a DCT car will go run the same lap time every day?
I know what an out lap is, ut what about the "traffic " ? Its always something.. no other best days of racing times to post up? Surely there are other days to add to that one yes? Granted, thats consistent.. but does it span over multiple heats? I feel we both know the answer
You realize that other cars are on the track at the same time correct? Second, that lap traffic is only .5 off the rest. This is all I currently have since my app update. I can get you a full day's worth of consistent lapping for you on sunday, Ill even do some laps where I lift half way down the back straight and youll see a .5second difference. Keep in mine track is 3.5miles... Thats long.
And yes.. Between heats you will see some difference and thats entirely to do with track temps. We go from 70°-110° from morning to afternoon. All cars slow down and speed up. Tires and brakes are #1.
Sincerely, a guy who practically lives at the race track...
From a pro, Randy Probstis a manual and auto ZL1, stating he’s 0.32 faster in a manual.
Just 3 tenths for a PRO. Can almost guarantee it’s the opposite for amateurs.
How Did A Manual Chevy Camaro ZL1 Beat The 10-Speed Automatic Version?
Now here’s asame day comparison and he’s .3 faster in an Auto ATS-V:
So, it’s really showing you how good the new autos are today.
BUT, these are autos not DCTs and the Ford engineer who actually designs and flogs this exact GT500 stated the DCT is fastest on the road course. He admitted he’s a hardcore stick guy but the DCT allowed them to take the car to a level a manual couldn’t.
It’s really getting to be like beating a dead horse. Ford has committed the 500 to the new DCT for the performance benefits.
As I said earlier, if the budget allows for a future manual 500, great.
But for now, launching with DCT only is 100% the right move.
For those who must have the slower stick,buy a GT350/350R or GT PP2.
-J
Just 3 tenths for a PRO. Can almost guarantee it’s the opposite for amateurs.
How Did A Manual Chevy Camaro ZL1 Beat The 10-Speed Automatic Version?
Now here’s asame day comparison and he’s .3 faster in an Auto ATS-V:
So, it’s really showing you how good the new autos are today.
BUT, these are autos not DCTs and the Ford engineer who actually designs and flogs this exact GT500 stated the DCT is fastest on the road course. He admitted he’s a hardcore stick guy but the DCT allowed them to take the car to a level a manual couldn’t.
It’s really getting to be like beating a dead horse. Ford has committed the 500 to the new DCT for the performance benefits.
As I said earlier, if the budget allows for a future manual 500, great.
But for now, launching with DCT only is 100% the right move.
For those who must have the slower stick,buy a GT350/350R or GT PP2.
-J
Randy with the Caddys was a cool video, but him being a professional should know the fastest way around a race track is to not lose traction in the tires but to have them on the absolute limit of grip, so the showoff drifting he did with the manual car probably cost him a faster lap than on the auto car (but hey, it's cool to see him hang it out there).
If you prefer having the fastest car on paper sure, Im just trying to show the variables most people dont see. Good drivers will be fast dct or manual, and slow drivers will be slow dct or manual. Yes a slow driver will be faster than himself with the DCT but that guy will still likely be getting tooled by miatas so I guess who cares. Literally nobody is racing these cars so thats why it doesnt actually matter. Finding equally talented drivers in equal cars to play with is rare unless you run in a spec race series.
Bottom line to each his own but the new 500 would be perfectly managable with a stick as well
I’m gonna brag and say when I’m in a manual racing an dsg or dct car, I don’t lose much time with my power shifts vs their cars shifts, but I do have a lot more power to play with.
That said, even in my daily driver, I can keep up with very quick cars just by popping off clean very fast power shifts. I have 270whp and fwd, but just yesterday I caught the green light much faster than a 911 turbo next to me. I was going 70 when he finally passed me. He FLEW by, but if I was in my cobra it would have been ****ing hilarious.
Driver mod is awesome. I don’t need or want a dct because I’m content driving (and destroying) my cars like I stole em.
For practically and consistent laps for average drivers to excellent drivers, dct is the best transmission. Only thing better is a dct with the shift arm like true grand am cup cars get. If I’m not mistaken, the haldex stuff is literally a valvebody no auto mode dct with dog gears and faceplates etc and so on but I haven’t taken the time to actually look I’m just assuming.
oh, so there are variable in consistancy already? and for a PRO at that? which how many pros do you think there are..I mean, if only there was a way to reduce the inconsistancy's in auto racing.. if only.. even just 1..
cant use data to prove a point here anymore. its about feelings
ehh.. would an average person be faster in a dct vs manual, if the cars are exactly the same..? Its almost like there is a car out there that offered both, and both sold very well, and both were put head to head.. and the results AND reviews were as expected.. ( E92 M3)
* mind blown *
You keep reading your magazines, I'll be at the race track, where I experience the real world lol. Like I said previously, we have a ton of dudes in 1le's doing juuuust fiiiine with their shitty manuals, plenty of guys in acr vipers also doing just fine. What yall dont remember is these are not race cars, they are fun cars. You are right a DCT will be faster in majority of cases (marginal) and different days and different pros can net different results but only guarantee'd to be faster against yourself. Im in no way against them, they are fun in their own right but there aint nothing wrong with an old stick either. Some of the fastest full bodied cars we have on track are these RS1 (cascar), they are running pushrod 355's (450hp) with 4 speed and a damn solid axle. They run faster than GT3RS's (pro driven) and we have some 70's year olds running in that ballpark.
Some of you dont understand the track day world and thats ok, you just buy your car and show people Randy Pobst's hero runs
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