Washed out piston rings.

SlipperySnake

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This isn't necessarily a tuning issue, but I don't see any other section to post this honestly. So I had a bad MAF sensor that caused my brand new engine with ID1300s to run very rich, were talking shooting black smoke out my downpipes. So every time I wanted to try and see if what I had performed to try to fix it, which was many things, I was dumping the fuel into the combustion chambers. So eventually I fixed it and it ended up being a bad brand new SCT BA5000 MAF. New PMAS MAF now and all is back on track, installing power steering, etc. It has stainless rings and I've read some places that these are tough and take a decent beating to break in. It smokes on start up a bit and has oil in the threads of the spark plugs whenever I remove them to examine them. Just wondering if I get it all together and throw some pressure in the chamber with the added heat, would this help seal the rings or am I screwed? I've done a compression test and they are at 125psi, but the motor really hasn't even hardly been broken in. Any uplifting comments? lol.
 

01blckcobra

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Guessing you have aftermarket cams with the compression test?

I have stainless rings. as long as the honing is performed right, they no different to break in.

First few miles a had just a very lit coating on oil on the spark plugs. After 100 miles no more oil present.

Was told by CP if you street drive, take it easy for the first 100 miles (no boost) After that go balls out if you want. Have never had an issue with stainless going by what CP told me. Holds 25psi no oil gets by. You want the rings to break-in flat with the cylinder walls. Since low load /rpm will be the average the engine sees.

If its a strictly a drag car, drive it how you're going to drive it at the track. you'll be replacing rings each year anyways. or should. Motors going to see on average higher load / rpms vs street driving. The rings will wear at angles top and bottom due to ring flex. Prone to leak at low rpms as the ring "relaxes"
 
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SlipperySnake

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I have stock cams. I'm hoping I can get the rings to seal up and if not then motor comes out regardless. I've read to beat on it and also read to take it easy. Can't ever get a definite answer. Appreciate the reply though. I will hope for the best!
 

Weather Man

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Hate to say it, but you most likely washed the cylinders down and that unfortunately means the motor has to come apart for a .010 overbore and new pistons and rings. If you scoped it, you would see a cylinder wall with no or minimal cross hatch visible. I have seen some guys rehone and install a new set of rings with varying success. My 2 cents worth of internet advice :)
 

01blckcobra

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I have stock cams. I'm hoping I can get the rings to seal up and if not then motor comes out regardless. I've read to beat on it and also read to take it easy. Can't ever get a definite answer. Appreciate the reply though. I will hope for the best!

My engine with stock cams, compression test at around 190psi per cylinder. Sounds like motor comes out, at least be on the safe side, see what going on.
(Agree with post#4)

Never had to beat on a engine to get rings to seal... Don't make sense to me.
 

SlipperySnake

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I looked into the bores and there is still cross hashing on the walls. I’m gonna at least run it and try to break them in. I haven’t ran the motor that long and I think it’s worth a try before I remove the entire engine rather than not trying and just removing it. I appreciate the few replies. Thank you! Keep them coming.


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01blckcobra

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I looked into the bores and there is still cross hashing on the walls. I’m gonna at least run it and try to break them in. I haven’t ran the motor that long and I think it’s worth a try before I remove the entire engine rather than not trying and just removing it. I appreciate the few replies. Thank you! Keep them coming.


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How much is haven't ran the motor that long? Also, I would due and oil change if you havent already. Break-in oil is the best to use or diesel oil. conventional, don't use synthetic. 30w non-detergent is what I use.
 

old01cobra

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I've got a 5.3L stroker with flat tops and some 242/238 duration cams with .475 lift that only puts out about 145psi at best with a cranking compression test. I've done a leakdown test numerous times and I get a zero percent leak result on all cylinders. I have total seal gapless upper rings which from my understanding make oil control a little harder. Mine ran rich as ass also when I broke it in and I was nervous about cylinder wash. Ran it for about 25 minutes with 30wt with 60lb injectors and a 90mm MAF at the time with a break in tune. The thing smogged out a 50x100 ft pole barn it looked like China skies. Not sure 60lb injectors could wash a cylinder down though unless they mechanically stuck open. Your using 1300's that's over twice as much so its possible I guess, as that would be like dumping stuck 60lb injectors down each cylinder.

Needless to say it fouled out my 02's and it ran rich even at the dyno. 02's were lazy as ****. Put some new 02s in and its been fine. Till I put some leaded 110 in it by accident and it took out the 02's again and it started running rich again, one bank pegged enrichment while the other bank got lazy and would bounce rich. Every time it ran rich id get some wet oil around the threads of the plugs. I put new 02's in it and the threads dried up. It made some healthy numbers NA 460whp and 390wtq. Uses some oil but I do spin it out to 7.5-8K rpms at times. With the heads being ported so much the valve guides hang 3/4 of its total length with no aluminum around them, Im sure that doesn't help with oil consumption. I get about 120-140 miles to a tank and I add some oil maybe about +-250ml per 1000ish miles depending on driving habit. I've got a deep sump pan and I never altered the dipstick so I put 8qts in it and it just touches that's how I know I consume some oil etc. But the stock factory motor did too since it was new, I mark it up to the 32valves with the 16 exhaust valves being submerged under oil all the time. That had 30K on it and from day one it sipped some oil.

I've got around 2K miles on it and Im currently installing a blower now. Oil consumption appears to be getting better with mileage, it bothers me that it eats some. But again it makes some healthy numbers and the original OEM engine drank some oil.

What kind of compression are you running with those stock cams? Washing down cylinders takes a good amount of fuel. You're oil should have a strong fuel odor if you did.
 

SlipperySnake

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It’s been a while but rings were washed out. Raw fuel was coming out the downpipes that’s how rich it was. After tearing the motor apart I discovered a coolant leak in one of my exhaust ports near the valve guide. Head was pressure tested and failed. Got a new head and motor is back in the car with a Holley dominator. Long story short engine build didn’t know what he was doing. New shop got me fixed up good. I recommend USA Racing engines to anyone in Houston.


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01yellercobra

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I ran stainless rings in my last engine. I was told by Total Seal they need pressure to seat and the first 20 minutes are the most crucial. Mine saw full boost the first time it was warmed up. They sealed great. But since they were gapless rings I had issues with oil control. I later learned the mod motors don't like gapless rings for some reason.
 
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01blckcobra

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My experience with ring failure has been the boring and honing processes have been done incorrectly. Each has a different process.
For street driving with stainless, usually no boost / excessive load for 100 miles, get the to wear . Flat, then hammer it a couple times after with boost, then break in is done. Never had a problem.
 

01yellercobra

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My experience with ring failure has been the boring and honing processes have been done incorrectly. Each has a different process.
For street driving with stainless, usually no boost / excessive load for 100 miles, get the to wear . Flat, then hammer it a couple times after with boost, then break in is done. Never had a problem.
Honestly you're the first person I've heard say to take it easy on the stainless rings. Everyone else I've talked to including the manufacturer said they need pressure to seat. And if they don't seat within the first 20 minutes they never will. I'm sure there are exceptions to that. But then I've also always believed in breaking it in how I'm going to drive it.

My first big bore stroker was built by a local builder that did a lot of mod motors. It was supposed to have stainless rings, but I later learned it had moly. Anyway, I broke it in how he said by taking it easy for the first 100 or so miles. That engine never ran right. After finding an issue with the liners I switched to a Boss block with the same rotating assembly. I built that engine myself. I fired it it up and checked for leaks. Shut it off and drained the oil. Put it new oil and drove it about two blocks so it could get some heat then proceeded to hit full boost. That engine lasted about 20k miles and the only reason it died was because of a blown radiator hose in socal traffic. Couldn't get it shut off in time to save it.
 

01blckcobra

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Honestly you're the first person I've heard say to take it easy on the stainless rings. Everyone else I've talked to including the manufacturer said they need pressure to seat. And if they don't seat within the first 20 minutes they never will. I'm sure there are exceptions to that. But then I've also always believed in breaking it in how I'm going to drive it.

My first big bore stroker was built by a local builder that did a lot of mod motors. It was supposed to have stainless rings, but I later learned it had moly. Anyway, I broke it in how he said by taking it easy for the first 100 or so miles. That engine never ran right. After finding an issue with the liners I switched to a Boss block with the same rotating assembly. I built that engine myself. I fired it it up and checked for leaks. Shut it off and drained the oil. Put it new oil and drove it about two blocks so it could get some heat then proceeded to hit full boost. That engine lasted about 20k miles and the only reason it died was because of a blown radiator hose in socal traffic. Couldn't get it shut off in time to save it.

Actually tech at CP pistons and Total Seal told me this. I was having problems the rings sealing before.
 

01blckcobra

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For street driving.
If you're drag racing all the time then yes, want to wear the rings in beating the crap out of it. Usually cause blow by at lower rpms then. -rings not flexed like they would be at a higher load. Really no break in period then, either they take or don't. Usually if they dont take, its a honing/ boring surface issue.
 

01yellercobra

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Actually tech at CP pistons and Total Seal told me this. I was having problems the rings sealing before.
Just goes to show it depends on who you talk to. I spoke with Total Seal as well when I was rebuilding my engine.

There are as many ways to break in an engine as there are engine builders. As long as things work in the end that's all that matters.
 

01blckcobra

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Just goes to show it depends on who you talk to. I spoke with Total Seal as well when I was rebuilding my engine.

There are as many ways to break in an engine as there are engine builders. As long as things work in the end that's all that matters.
Lol yeah pretty much. Like anything some have luck some don't.
 

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