Tuning Help! New blower, HPX....

[HFBPA889]

OP, I am about to order the SCT PRP software. Does the book/dvd from Lasota seem informative and does it seem easy to understand? This will be a first for me, I have been wanting to tune my own vehicle from the get go, just a little nervous about it.

 

[01yellercobra]

PRP came in this weekend. Learned alot through Don's book and DVD.
Arrived at my first problem though regarding AFR and MTF changes at idle:

Car idles fine after warm up (in open loop) at 210 MAF counts, but reading 9.5 AFR on the wideband. Find correction factor of .6747. I make the reduction in the #mass/tic column of all cells under 210 count in the MTF and load new tune.
Makes no difference at all.
I multiply same range by .4 ONTOP of the first change, and AFR still doesn't change even a .1 . Unplug the MAF, and it idles 14.7-14.9, so the gauge is definitely working.

My IPW are at 560-600 the whole time and then reduce to 260 when the MAF is eliminated.
Getting 1v at idle though from the MAF and rises with rpm (tested with Fluke).

Why are my changes to the MTF having no response? Any ideas of things to look for?
Inj slope/breakpoint/displacement where scaled in my "base tune".

There's a chance it's that far out. The first time I tuned with the 80lb injectors I had to pull 20% fuel just to get it to start. The plugs were covered in gas. Pull some more fuel and see what happens. Are you matching the MAF counts on the datalog to the ones you're changing in the MTF?

You can try making your own base tune and see how it reacts. There's a chance something wasn't loaded correctly.

 

[leegro1015]

Great purchase from Don. I did the same thing two years ago, after having two different tuners work on my car. The $$$$ savings are huge. Change a part adjust the tune yourself. You will do alot of reading but learning is half the fun.

 

[Senator]

OP, I am about to order the SCT PRP software. Does the book/dvd from Lasota seem informative and does it seem easy to understand? This will be a first for me, I have been wanting to tune my own vehicle from the get go, just a little nervous about it.

Absolutely order them. It is technical, but I believe I got a jump start to understanding the software and theory behind it all.
Watch the Entire DVD for your version of PRP you get and read through the book. It lays out the basics for you.

There's a chance it's that far out. The first time I tuned with the 80lb injectors I had to pull 20% fuel just to get it to start. The plugs were covered in gas. Pull some more fuel and see what happens. Are you matching the MAF counts on the datalog to the ones you're changing in the MTF?

You can try making your own base tune and see how it reacts. There's a chance something wasn't loaded correctly.

Yes, but I didn't go to the one or two cells above and blend, which could be a factor. I also thought I reset the PCM by removing the neg batt cable, but I never cleared out KAM memory with the headlight/brake sequence.

There could be a couple of factors. I'm going to go back this weekend and dive a little deeper. Complete the reset, reload base tune, and scale from new datalogs. If I still can't get it to work, I'm going to try a different set of injectors, just to see if I can get some fluctuation on PW, AFR, and load.

Great purchase from Don. I did the same thing two years ago, after having two different tuners work on my car. The $$$$ savings are huge. Change a part adjust the tune yourself. You will do alot of reading but learning is half the fun.

I feel more comfortable all ready that I at least know how the tune is going to be setup, rather than "hope" someone else will.
Very happy with the service from Don as well...I definitely recommend.

 

[01yellercobra]

Yes, but I didn't go to the one or two cells above and blend, which could be a factor. I also thought I reset the PCM by removing the neg batt cable, but I never cleared out KAM memory with the headlight/brake sequence.

There could be a couple of factors. I'm going to go back this weekend and dive a little deeper. Complete the reset, reload base tune, and scale from new datalogs. If I still can't get it to work, I'm going to try a different set of injectors, just to see if I can get some fluctuation on PW, AFR, and load.

Are watching the counts when you datalog and changing those counts on the MTF? Is the adaptive turned off? The ECU is reset each time you reflash.

 

[Senator]

Are watching the counts when you datalog and changing those counts on the MTF? Is the adaptive turned off? The ECU is reset each time you reflash.

Yes logging counts, then the AFR according to my gauge (that's calibrated and working), then finding the correction factor from lambda according to the BFT, then applying the correction factor, it was .65 the first time, to the #mass/tic cells associated with the maf counts. However I did not blend the cell or two above the counts I was reading. I was reading 210 AVG at idle and only changed the 233 count and lower.

 

[01yellercobra]

Going up to 233 on a max reading of 210 should be enough. Can you look at the history and make sure the correct values for the MAF were loaded?

 

[watman02]

you are comanding open loop and have all the fuel tables set to 1 right?
I would keep pulling fuel and make sure car is at operating temp as well, as you could have cold start fueling making it run richer.
when i got mine up and running and made my first wot pull it read 10.2 on the WB i had to pull 11% 3 times before it started reading low 11's on the afr so you could be just that far off at idle.

 

[Senator]

Going up to 233 on a max reading of 210 should be enough. Can you look at the history and make sure the correct values for the MAF were loaded?

you are comanding open loop and have all the fuel tables set to 1 right?
I would keep pulling fuel and make sure car is at operating temp as well, as you could have cold start fueling making it run richer.
when i got mine up and running and made my first wot pull it read 10.2 on the WB i had to pull 11% 3 times before it started reading low 11's on the afr so you could be just that far off at idle.

BA5000 value file was loaded after base and injector value file for FRPP 80s v2. Adaptive learning cell set to 0. Not sure if it's taking the tune right or something. I made those MASSIVE changes. I mean .06 lb/min ending value in some of the lower cells and it still read the same AFR.
Tap on the gas and get it into high maf counts, and the AFR changes, so I know it's not the gauge. Gauge reads 14.7 on the failed table as stated earlier.

Just going to start from scratch and keep better notes this time around on my procedure. The only thing I didn't follow from the book was clearing the KAM.

 

[Don 95Vert]

If all else fails, Call SCT tech support and have them check on your X3 - maybe the tune is not making it into the car when you do changes. I have heard a couple reports of that lately.

 

[03Steve]

I have a utility I developed that allows you to select processor clock speed and automatically produces the correct transfer function for #mass/clock tic. Do you want me to post up a screenshot of the HPX in your pipe size and the associated AOL3 values for reference?

Also...no scaling is required with that PCM, until you are using an injector slope that is above 108lb or so. If you could, post up a screenshot of your injector scalars.

 

[Senator]

If all else fails, Call SCT tech support and have them check on your X3 - maybe the tune is not making it into the car when you do changes. I have heard a couple reports of that lately.

Thanks Don! Will do if necessary. I'll also run the X3 Updater just in case.
Should have some time with it tomorrow around lunch.

I have a utility I developed that allows you to select processor clock speed and automatically produces the correct transfer function for #mass/clock tic. Do you want me to post up a screenshot of the HPX in your pipe size and the associated AOL3 values for reference?

Also...no scaling is required with that PCM, until you are using an injector slope that is above 108lb or so. If you could, post up a screenshot of your injector scalars.

Sure, definitely useful to compare at least. It's an HPX in a 3" pipe.

 

[03Steve]

Yikes. Multiply those slopes by 3600 and see what you get, lol

What is your engine displacement and manifold size? Is this calibration scaled down?

 

[Senator]

Yikes. Multiply those slopes by 3600 and see what you get, lol

What is your engine displacement and manifold size? Is this calibration scaled down?

I get low slope of 65.95 lb/hr.
The FRPP 80# injector V2 value file is 101.46 lb/hr

Displacement- 0.00101
Manifold volume- 10 liters

They were all scaled by .65
I believe my mods are in the first post (if reference needed)

 

[03Steve]

The AOL3 does not require scaling for that combination of MAF and injectors.

Return the engine displacement back to stock, injectors values back to pre-scaled form, and use values from the HPX tool in #mass/tic format. What is your "clock speed" scalar set to?

 

[03Steve]

 

[03Steve]

Simplified for copying:

MAF Counts

1023
962
896
849
794
765
732
698
657
632
614
575
528
501
475
442
407
387
340
311
297
264
246
223
196
166
151
125
108
0


#mass/tic (21MHz processor)

0.0000074177
0.0000062322
0.0000050394
0.0000042887
0.0000035221
0.0000031677
0.0000027941
0.0000024305
0.0000020432
0.0000018309
0.0000016814
0.0000013928
0.0000010920
0.0000009448
0.0000008132
0.0000006713
0.0000005426
0.0000004762
0.0000003461
0.0000002800
0.0000002502
0.0000001898
0.0000001603
0.0000001287
0.0000000977
0.0000000703
0.0000000603
0.0000000452
0.0000000368
0.0000000000


#mass/tic (24MHz processor)

0.0000064925
0.0000054548
0.0000044109
0.0000037538
0.0000030828
0.0000027726
0.0000024456
0.0000021274
0.0000017884
0.0000016026
0.0000014717
0.0000012191
0.0000009558
0.0000008269
0.0000007118
0.0000005876
0.0000004749
0.0000004168
0.0000003029
0.0000002451
0.0000002190
0.0000001661
0.0000001403
0.0000001126
0.0000000855
0.0000000615
0.0000000528
0.0000000396
0.0000000322
0.0000000000

 

[Senator]

The AOL3 does not require scaling for that combination of MAF and injectors.

Return the engine displacement back to stock, injectors values back to pre-scaled form, and use values from the HPX tool in #mass/tic format. What is your "clock speed" scalar set to?

Clock speed is 2 or 21MHz


Interesting, everything I've ever read, even on the SCT PRP forum said it does and it has to be scaled massively.
I'm not saying your wrong, I would just like to learn why there is conflict of ideas here.

I very much appreciate all the insight so far though! :beer:

 

[03Steve]

The scaling requirement applies to #/min processors where there is a 63.9#/min cap on the MAF transfer function and when the calibrator chooses to work within that limit. That information shared on the tuning forum is correct...for example, on a 2002-2004 GT or 2003-2004 Cobra/Mach/GT PCM. A 1998 AOL3 PCM and many others are not limited by that 63.9 #/min cap.

The scaling will work, but in your case it isn't necessary. What is important is correctly translating the values from the HPX Tool from kg/hr to #mass/tic, with respect to the 21MHz clock speed in your case.

The injector pulse width observation is interesting. All this information may not fix that. But it will ensure a correct starting point and give you less things to rule out.

FYI - Last AOL3 I worked with had 160lb injectors. A limit was found there with injector slopes, and scaling was required in that case. Don't forget about your cranking fuel pulsewidth edits...

 

[Senator]

The scaling requirement applies to #/min processors where there is a 63.9#/min cap on the MAF transfer function and when the calibrator chooses to work within that limit. That information shared on the tuning forum is correct...for example, on a 2002-2004 GT or 2003-2004 Cobra/Mach/GT PCM. A 1998 AOL3 PCM and many others are not limited by that 63.9 #/min cap.

The scaling will work, but in your case it isn't necessary. What is important is correctly translating the values from the HPX Tool from kg/hr to #mass/tic, with respect to the 21MHz clock speed in your case.

The injector pulse width observation is interesting. All this information may not fix that. But it will ensure a correct starting point and give you less things to rule out.

FYI - Last AOL3 I worked with had 160lb injectors. A limit was found there with injector slopes, and scaling was required in that case. Don't forget about your cranking fuel pulsewidth edits...

The PW issue may very well be with the crappy SD #80 (that are also used, I never flow benched).

So once I input those values into the MTF, would I still correct certain cells in #mass/tic in open loop for commanded lambda? Or should I be changing BFT now?

Just want to make sure I have the right process now.