Tuning Help! New blower, HPX....

[Senator]

sounds like mtf table problem or a maf problem in general . are they tuning in open or closed loop?

That's what I'm thinking. Here is a screenshot I snapped right after. Unfortunately didn't get the lower portion of the grid.

Even so, the MAF counts and lb/min don't match the voltages on the HPX tool.
As the MAF voltage goes down, the A/D and lb/min are farther than the recommended cells on the table.
I'm guessing it's worse at the bottom.

The hpx table tool found here:
http://www.pmas-maf.com/resources/PFLHPXtool.xls

 

[Don 95Vert]

The HPX 'tool' gives different units than you need - #mass/per tic is an airflow amount dictated by processor speed which makes the conversion really tough. That said, any MAF value is just a starting point - and often times a really bad starting point. On our turbo Lightning with an HPX, it barely ran with a base value file. But we knew it was just a starting point. We got it running long enough to get a tiny bit of data while forced in OL. From there we made a couple of gross adjustments in the neighborhood of 30-45% an got it in the ballpark. From there it was normal tuning. After dialing it in, it drives like stock and has for the last 5 years or so. Same story with our turbo Mustang and just about every car we have seen with that combo on the dyno and doing remote tunes for. It's a real basic thing to have to do that - it will NEVER run good until it is dialed in. The other thing is applying the known good values for these from a dynotune sometimes are not close either. That's because of variations in inlets, etc.

The vehicle runs with the MAF unplugged because it is running on the failed MAF table. Not a good way to leave it.

I repeat, get the Pro Racer Package and tune it yourself, you'll be much further ahead money-wise and you will be in full control of the situation yourself. You'll stop relying and hoping with your fingers crossed that someone else gets it right - it'll all be in your hands on your time schedule. Plus you will be able to devote much more actual tuning time to it than any tuner would - you can learn while you fiddle with it. It's not rocket science. I hear there are some great resources available to help you get it tuned correctly.

Don LaSota

 

[Senator]

I repeat, get the Pro Racer Package and tune it yourself, you'll be much further ahead money-wise and you will be in full control of the situation yourself. You'll stop relying and hoping with your fingers crossed that someone else gets it right - it'll all be in your hands on your time schedule. Plus you will be able to devote much more actual tuning time to it than any tuner would - you can learn while you fiddle with it. It's not rocket science. I hear there are some great resources available to help you get it tuned correctly.

Don LaSota

Thanks for the advice Don. If my tuner doesn't have some really good ideas and answers to fix it that don't include replacing parts, I'm going to take it home. Then proceed to order the PRP and guides from a great resource. :-D

The tuner said he was taking "up to 60% out of the fuel" and it still ran 9.0 on a tailpipe sniffer. Made no difference from the "40% he took out" right before.
Although he never said where or how he was "taking fuel out".

 

[Senator]

For these 80# injectors, have any of you used the min PW value file for the 60# injectors to lower the clipping point?

I wonder if that will help get the idle tune down.

 

[Don 95Vert]

Tailpipe sniffer... Ouch!

Some people have great results with the 80's and others can never get them to work right - common thread with SCT dealers in their private forums. The general consensus is to either use SD 60's or just go with the ID injectors.

 

[Senator]

Tailpipe sniffer... Ouch!

Some people have great results with the 80's and others can never get them to work right - common thread with SCT dealers in their private forums. The general consensus is to either use SD 60's or just go with the ID injectors.

I know right...double checking it against my WB gauge as well though.

I'm pretty sure the SD60's would max out on my setup on e85.
I don't oppose buying IDs, but I wonder if the 1000's would idle well on 93, or if I should go with the 725 and hope I don't max those out.

 

[DSG2NV03]

I know right...double checking it against my WB gauge as well though.

I'm pretty sure the SD60's would max out on my setup on e85.
I don't oppose buying IDs, but I wonder if the 1000's would idle well on 93, or if I should go with the 725 and hope I don't max those out.

The ID injectors are known for their overall performance. I know a bunch of 4 cylinder cars with ID2000s that idle like stock. This is the reason we pay so much for IDs is for their driveability and tuneability. My ID1000s idle perfectly and were a breeze to tune. :beer:

 

[Senator]

The ID injectors are known for their overall performance. I know a bunch of 4 cylinder cars with ID2000s that idle like stock. This is the reason we pay so much for IDs is for their driveability and tuneability. My ID1000s idle perfectly and were a breeze to tune. :beer:

Thanks for the advice.
I'm just worried that I'll spend 1K on these, and I still won't get it tuned right by my tuner.

If he doesn't have any good answers Monday, I'm going to take it home, order ID1000s and Don's SCT PRP software.

 

[DSG2NV03]

Thanks for the advice.
I'm just worried that I'll spend 1K on these, and I still won't get it tuned right by my tuner.

If he doesn't have any good answers Monday, I'm going to take it home, order ID1000s and Don's SCT PRP software.

Good choice on both of those! I did the same thing! I hear beefcake here on the site has the cheapest ID1000 prices.

 

[Senator]

I'll definitely look into it, thanks.

I'm trying to research the #mass/tic function and if its possible to make a conversion.
I can't seem to find any info on that measurement at all.
You would reduce the numbers in this column for a rich condition or correct the MAF AD counts? I'm just trying to learn so I can see if my tuner is doing the right thing here.

 

[Senator]

The vehicle runs with the MAF unplugged because it is running on the failed MAF table. Not a good way to leave it.
Don LaSota

When it's unplugged, my wideband read 14.7 and it idled smoothly.
This would leave me to believe the injectors CAN work at idle and the mass air does work, but isn't tuned correctly.

Is that a fair assumption?

Good choice on both of those! I did the same thing! I hear beefcake here on the site has the cheapest ID1000 prices.

How long did it take you to get the "learning curve" down?
Was the book/dvd helpful in that process?

 

[watman02]

When it's unplugged, my wideband read 14.7 and it idled smoothly.
This would leave me to believe the injectors CAN work at idle and the mass air does work, but isn't tuned correctly.

Is that a fair assumption?

yes that is correct, i missed the part where you said it run fine with the maf unplugged. if it runs fine this way then the injector tables are fine you just need to cal the MAF.

 

[DSG2NV03]

When it's unplugged, my wideband read 14.7 and it idled smoothly.
This would leave me to believe the injectors CAN work at idle and the mass air does work, but isn't tuned correctly.

Is that a fair assumption?


How long did it take you to get the "learning curve" down?
Was the book/dvd helpful in that process?

I think the book and DVD are a must! There is just too much in the software to get lost in.

 

[Senator]

I think the book and DVD are a must! There is just too much in the software to get lost in.

Talked to Don on the phone for a good half hour the other day.
Got the PRP, Book, and DVD, along with a base tune and reasoning on initial setup.

Couldn't beat the customer service from Lasota.

I'll probably make another thread documenting my experiences learning the program. Let other people see how hard/easy it is.

 

[svtshadow]

Talked to Don on the phone for a good half hour the other day.
Got the PRP, Book, and DVD, along with a base tune and reasoning on initial setup.

Couldn't beat the customer service from Lasota.

I'll probably make another thread documenting my experiences learning the program. Let other people see how hard/easy it is.

Where did you get the book DVD from?

 

[Senator]

Where did you get the book DVD from?

Don Lasota
LaSota Racing Tuning Manuals

I think it will be a good resource, whether actually learning new information or just for reference.

I'll prob start another thread once I get everything and do a review of the materials and learning process through the software strictly from a users point of view.

 

[DSG2NV03]

Talked to Don on the phone for a good half hour the other day.
Got the PRP, Book, and DVD, along with a base tune and reasoning on initial setup.

Couldn't beat the customer service from Lasota.

I'll probably make another thread documenting my experiences learning the program. Let other people see how hard/easy it is.

GREAT! One of the best things is you can email him with any questions and he gets back to you really quick. I asked a lot of dumb questions and he explained them. Make sure when you get your stuff, you get on the SCT PRP forums. You only have access to this when you activate your USB dongle. LOTS and LOTS of great info there. Take your time, don't get greedy, and you know more about your car than you ever dreamed! Then you can look at other's datalogs and easily diagnose issues. There are quite a few of us on here that can help you out also, just send us a PM. Good luck!

Alex

 

[Senator]

PRP came in this weekend. Learned alot through Don's book and DVD.
Arrived at my first problem though regarding AFR and MTF changes at idle:

Car idles fine after warm up (in open loop) at 210 MAF counts, but reading 9.5 AFR on the wideband. Find correction factor of .6747. I make the reduction in the #mass/tic column of all cells under 210 count in the MTF and load new tune.
Makes no difference at all.
I multiply same range by .4 ONTOP of the first change, and AFR still doesn't change even a .1 . Unplug the MAF, and it idles 14.7-14.9, so the gauge is definitely working.

My IPW are at 560-600 the whole time and then reduce to 260 when the MAF is eliminated.
Getting 1v at idle though from the MAF and rises with rpm (tested with Fluke).

Why are my changes to the MTF having no response? Any ideas of things to look for?
Inj slope/breakpoint/displacement where scaled in my "base tune".

 

[Uglywolf]

I don't oppose buying IDs, but I wonder if the 1000's would idle well on 93, or if I should go with the 725 and hope I don't max those out.

My idle and drivability are stock with ID1000's, very pleased from a tuning perspective. I also agree with Don, get PRP and his training material and do it yourself, I may have just seen a similar post on the PRP forum so I'm guessing you went this route. If so, congrats!

Your post answers that question

 

[BobCat]

Find a third tuner.... the SCT value files only loaded tells a tale....