So I'm wanting to tune my Explorer Sport with the handheld DiabloSport Tuner but am wondering if there are any repercussions to reliability or reasons to not tune it. DiabloSport claims up to a 70 HP/65 lb torque gain. Will this adversely effect the reliability of my motor in the long run? Just generally looking for some quality gear head guidance on this. Thanks!
Tuning 2014 Explorer Sport
- Thread starter Phoenix3
- Start date
I tuned my '13 Sport. I have a Livernois tune not a diablosport tune. I'm at 32k miles and have had it tuned since 5k. I have had zero issues. Aside from the power increase the shift schedule is vastly improved compared to stock. I would tune it just for that. The livernois tune is on its third revision and very mature. I cannot comment on the Diablosport tune however, so it might be a very different experience.
you wont see any longterm negative effects when tuning the vehicle. The numbers are pretty conservative for the Ecoboost, but theres a bit more that's done for the overall feel of the vehicle, such as the shift point changes mentioned by bigmooose. You'll be pleasantly surprised by how much better the truck will feel with the tune in it. Ive driven a few explorers as well as F150's before and after and to put it simply, its amazing.
As far as the warranty is concerned, there's a lot of R/D that goes into ensuring that the dealer has no way of detecting the tune. The tool will always have an option to revert to factory settings, releasing the license of the tool and setting the truck back to factory, on all our supported vehicles.
What i like to tell people though, is this. If the dealer checked every vehicle that came into the dealership for work, whether it be for an oil change/tire rotation, bad alternator, suspension noises, work would never get done because they would be trying to see if its tuned. The fact is, that its way too time consuming to believe that every vehicle that comes through the service department is tuned. The dealer, also, does not have access to reading the full tune out of the vehicle. The tools they DO have access to are simply calibration tools to update the vehicles to the latest supported software from Ford. This means that they plug into the vehicle, check your software version, FPXXX1 and see that now Ford is on FPXXX2 and simply flash it. No harm no foul.
What i like to tell people though, is this. If the dealer checked every vehicle that came into the dealership for work, whether it be for an oil change/tire rotation, bad alternator, suspension noises, work would never get done because they would be trying to see if its tuned. The fact is, that its way too time consuming to believe that every vehicle that comes through the service department is tuned. The dealer, also, does not have access to reading the full tune out of the vehicle. The tools they DO have access to are simply calibration tools to update the vehicles to the latest supported software from Ford. This means that they plug into the vehicle, check your software version, FPXXX1 and see that now Ford is on FPXXX2 and simply flash it. No harm no foul.
The dealership CAN tell if it's been tuned. All newer pcm's have a tracker in them which will tell them how many times the cars been flashed. So if your car comes in with 3 reflashes and they look on their history and see it's never been in the dealer for an update that's all the evidence they need.
HOWEVER, most dealers dont give a shit unless the customer tries to lie about it. If you're in good terms with your dealer and dont lie if they ask, 99% of the time they wont care. Hell we had a customer recently with a 2015 mustang that came in for longtubes/cai/tune and afterwords had issues with the trans. Dealer warrantied it no problem.
About the tune, I cant speak for the diablosport ones. But I do work at livernois and can say I've never seen an issue with any ecoboost. Nor have I heard of any issues from out of state customers. Without a doubt we are the best tuners on those engines, I'd be a little surprised if half the ford calibrators knew as much about it as my boss does.
HOWEVER, most dealers dont give a shit unless the customer tries to lie about it. If you're in good terms with your dealer and dont lie if they ask, 99% of the time they wont care. Hell we had a customer recently with a 2015 mustang that came in for longtubes/cai/tune and afterwords had issues with the trans. Dealer warrantied it no problem.
About the tune, I cant speak for the diablosport ones. But I do work at livernois and can say I've never seen an issue with any ecoboost. Nor have I heard of any issues from out of state customers. Without a doubt we are the best tuners on those engines, I'd be a little surprised if half the ford calibrators knew as much about it as my boss does.
Are you saying that your tunes change flash counts? That's certainly something we've taken into consideration in R&D to make sure we don't run into dealer issues.
*facepalm* If I had a dollar....
You should elaborate...
There is a few counters in FLASH, but they only track certain things (like KAM resets, StartDiagnosticSessionRequest and SecurityAccess Request) (0x10 and 0x27 respectively for those playing along at home)
Thats on the hardware side..... In PTS, there is NO where in OASIS that stores how many times the car has been flashed. But the idea of flash count is irrelevant. Some people think there is some magical PID that will tell you...
Plus, most shops now days have access to FPS, which allows them to flash ford cars off network.
Now, if you get a guy like myself or a FE out to look at a PCM of a suspected engine failure or similar, we can get an idea, but can not prove anything.
Sorry for typos, typed on ipad in angry airport.
-Matt
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Or you can look at the JMS stuff and not flash the truck at all!
Bit late to the discussion, but I'm also looking into getting an in-warranty ecoboost tuned and have had a bit of experience with warranties and legal terms.
So while yes the dealer *may* be able to see how many times a PCM was flashed, that in no means proves anything or is nearly enough evidence of tampering. Just because it was flashed doesn't mean it was flashed with something illegal as far as warranty status. Just because someone may speculate as to what was flashed doesn't mean it will hold in any sort of court.
Judge - So why did you deny the customer's warranty claim?
Dealer - Well your honor, we scanned the PCM and saw that it was flashed 3 times.
Judge - So what does that mean?
Dealer - Well it means that the PCM was flashed with an aftermarket tune which in turn caused the engine to fail, so we won't cover any damages.
Judge - So you were able to see in the PCM itself that specific changes were made which tie directly to the engine failure?
Dealer - No, we just saw that changes were made.
Judge - So you have no idea or proof of what changes were actually made?
Dealer - No, just that some changes were made.
Judge - GTFO!
Seriously, that's like someone being charged for murder and the only evidence the prosecution has is that he at one point in his life bought a gun. No proof that that was the gun used, no proof that the person was even in the area of the crime, just that he once bought a gun so that automatically makes him guilty of the crime. That's not how the legal system works son (whether criminal or in this case consumer/warranty related).
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Back in 05-07 i remember Ford using the Pro-Cal handheld which changed the PCM code. When we tried to hook it up to IDS to reflash it back to the stock setting the IDS wouldnt do it because the base file didnt match the original PCM code for a Mustang GT.
I dont know why it didnt reflash the original tune back into the car but it did change the PCM code. Ill see if i can find the original tune files plus the update Ford Racing tune file that was used in the Pro-Cal tuners.
Anyone explain that one? I never knew the answer. It baffled a bunch of us.
I dont know why it didnt reflash the original tune back into the car but it did change the PCM code. Ill see if i can find the original tune files plus the update Ford Racing tune file that was used in the Pro-Cal tuners.
Anyone explain that one? I never knew the answer. It baffled a bunch of us.
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You might want up talk to the owners of the early 5.0's that had their warranty claims denied because of an aftermarket tune when number 8 popped.
Honestly, it is not even a question of flash counts. If ANY manufacturer really wanted to find out if a car has been tuned they would just send out a software engineer to open the locked partitions of the ECU and go line by line of coding to find evidence of an ECU flash. If they want to find out, they can and will.
NOBODY does more EcoBoost custom tuning than we do. We have even gone as far as to invest into engineering our own tuning software and hardware in house. We by far have more access to the more than 17k tables that exist in the EcoBoost ECU. We are actually using our own tuning software. We FULLY understand the logic of the platform as a whole and that is why we are ALWAYS the first to market with tuning. Why we are ALWAYS the first to produce a 110% safe, reliable and repeatable tune to the industry. We do not hide the fact that tuning is visible to the manufacturer. We offer that information upfront. Do we encourage you to flash your car back to stock before any trip to the dealer, absolutely. But not as a means to hide the fact that you have a tune, but so that any forward dating of your strategy that needs to be done on their end can be done uninterruptedly.
If you really stop and look at the results that our tuning yields in WHEEL hp, WHEEL tq, reliability, drive-ability and track performance there is not another vendor that even comes close! We actually have dozens of vendors that used to support various 3rd party tuning companies that now run our tuning on their PERSONAL vehicles, as opposed to what they are contractually bound to sell to their clients.
Here is an abridged version of how we go about tuning, some of the EcoBoost firsts and world records that we claim stake to:
For us, dyno tuning starts long before you see a WOT run. We test at low RPM, then again at around 3700-4000, 5000 and then WOT. After we test and tune all of those we then have our calibrator go out onto the streets and test and tune live under real driving conditions until he is happy with how the tuning responds. AFTER ALL OF THAT, our shop supervisor will then go out on a longer and more diverse test drive to test all around performance, reliability and drive-ability. If everything is aces, we release a car. If not, we take it back to square one.
That is why we are able to supply you guys with such accurate and reliable custom remote tuning as well. We spend countless hours validating what we test on ourselves before we release any product.
“Champions keep practicing until they get it right.”
-Billie Jean King
We live by that here at Livernois Motorsports. We own the cars that we are actually offering tuning for. We test, double check and then test again on ourselves. We develop our own unique solutions VIA our engineering dept. We take the road that nobody wants to because it is more expensive or time consuming.
Here is an abridged list of some of our EcoBoost accomplishments alone:
In 2009, before anyone had software, we were tuning the SHO and MKS.
In 2011, we were tuning the F-150 Eco before other companies could even flash it. We were the first again
In 2012, we were tuning the 2013 SHO while other software wasn't out for 6-8 months later
In 2012, we were tuning the Explorer Sport, almost a full year and a half before anyone else.
First to tune the 2.0 Fusion
First to tune the 1.5 Fusion
First to tune the 1.6 Fusion
First to tune the 2.0 Escape
First to tune the 1.6 Escape
First tune only 12 second SHO
First 11 second SHO
First 12 second F-150
First 12 second Explorer Sport
First 11 second EcoBoost Mustang
First with upgraded turbo's
First with Downpipes
First with Methanol kits
First to offer 3-bar tuning
First 600whp EcoBoost Dyno captured on video
Highest HP EcoBoost Engine on the planet
First and only so far to tune 2015 F-150 3.5L EcoBoost
Here is the proof of our XSport tuning first:
[video=youtube;MMjSPV_FOOU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMjSPV_FOOU[/video]
Here is our 12 second XSport
[video=youtube;8zCIJGA_4Zc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zCIJGA_4Zc[/video]
Here is the video on our world record holding EcoBoost build that was even featured in "Engine Labs"
[video=youtube;0wlzbNAvhrI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wlzbNAvhrI[/video]
Here is the article from "Engine Labs"
http://www.enginelabs.com/news/video-livernois-builds-worlds-highest-hp-ecoboost-taurus-sho/
We even have performance shops across the globe that run our tuning!
[video=youtube;CV6UbMw_PHQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV6UbMw_PHQ[/video]
Russia is kind of far away...why would they seek us out instead of one of the "household name" tuning companies?
Simple....
We have the best results, longest track record and routinely produce the best products for our clients.
NOBODY does more EcoBoost custom tuning than we do. We have even gone as far as to invest into engineering our own tuning software and hardware in house. We by far have more access to the more than 17k tables that exist in the EcoBoost ECU. We are actually using our own tuning software. We FULLY understand the logic of the platform as a whole and that is why we are ALWAYS the first to market with tuning. Why we are ALWAYS the first to produce a 110% safe, reliable and repeatable tune to the industry. We do not hide the fact that tuning is visible to the manufacturer. We offer that information upfront. Do we encourage you to flash your car back to stock before any trip to the dealer, absolutely. But not as a means to hide the fact that you have a tune, but so that any forward dating of your strategy that needs to be done on their end can be done uninterruptedly.
If you really stop and look at the results that our tuning yields in WHEEL hp, WHEEL tq, reliability, drive-ability and track performance there is not another vendor that even comes close! We actually have dozens of vendors that used to support various 3rd party tuning companies that now run our tuning on their PERSONAL vehicles, as opposed to what they are contractually bound to sell to their clients.
Here is an abridged version of how we go about tuning, some of the EcoBoost firsts and world records that we claim stake to:
For us, dyno tuning starts long before you see a WOT run. We test at low RPM, then again at around 3700-4000, 5000 and then WOT. After we test and tune all of those we then have our calibrator go out onto the streets and test and tune live under real driving conditions until he is happy with how the tuning responds. AFTER ALL OF THAT, our shop supervisor will then go out on a longer and more diverse test drive to test all around performance, reliability and drive-ability. If everything is aces, we release a car. If not, we take it back to square one.
That is why we are able to supply you guys with such accurate and reliable custom remote tuning as well. We spend countless hours validating what we test on ourselves before we release any product.
“Champions keep practicing until they get it right.”
-Billie Jean King
We live by that here at Livernois Motorsports. We own the cars that we are actually offering tuning for. We test, double check and then test again on ourselves. We develop our own unique solutions VIA our engineering dept. We take the road that nobody wants to because it is more expensive or time consuming.
Here is an abridged list of some of our EcoBoost accomplishments alone:
In 2009, before anyone had software, we were tuning the SHO and MKS.
In 2011, we were tuning the F-150 Eco before other companies could even flash it. We were the first again
In 2012, we were tuning the 2013 SHO while other software wasn't out for 6-8 months later
In 2012, we were tuning the Explorer Sport, almost a full year and a half before anyone else.
First to tune the 2.0 Fusion
First to tune the 1.5 Fusion
First to tune the 1.6 Fusion
First to tune the 2.0 Escape
First to tune the 1.6 Escape
First tune only 12 second SHO
First 11 second SHO
First 12 second F-150
First 12 second Explorer Sport
First 11 second EcoBoost Mustang
First with upgraded turbo's
First with Downpipes
First with Methanol kits
First to offer 3-bar tuning
First 600whp EcoBoost Dyno captured on video
Highest HP EcoBoost Engine on the planet
First and only so far to tune 2015 F-150 3.5L EcoBoost
Here is the proof of our XSport tuning first:
[video=youtube;MMjSPV_FOOU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMjSPV_FOOU[/video]
Here is our 12 second XSport
[video=youtube;8zCIJGA_4Zc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zCIJGA_4Zc[/video]
Here is the video on our world record holding EcoBoost build that was even featured in "Engine Labs"
[video=youtube;0wlzbNAvhrI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wlzbNAvhrI[/video]
Here is the article from "Engine Labs"
http://www.enginelabs.com/news/video-livernois-builds-worlds-highest-hp-ecoboost-taurus-sho/
We even have performance shops across the globe that run our tuning!
[video=youtube;CV6UbMw_PHQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV6UbMw_PHQ[/video]
Russia is kind of far away...why would they seek us out instead of one of the "household name" tuning companies?
Simple....
We have the best results, longest track record and routinely produce the best products for our clients.
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Lets get specific then.
What "locked" portions of the ECU do you think exist?
Line by line of what coding? Specifically FLASH? or?
An engineer just can't just JTAG the ecu and suck down the FLASH contents and start inspecting. There is protection there, to protect certain areas of FLASH. If that was the case, things would be going a lot more different for aftermarket world. Protection Fuses are they to protect, once they are set, there is no unsetting them.
I have a feeling you may be referring to Checksum calculations/storage, and thinking they may be stored in some "secret" location.
As long as you writing through services 2E, 3D, 35, or 36 you will have no worries.
The devices you sale, look an awful lot like a Vehicle Delivery Device... Interesting...
-Matt
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I didn't post the message earlier but I do some of the tuning at LMS. I was asked to respond.
The main thing everyone needs to do is always be upfront with what you have done with your car an 99% of the time you will have no problems with your warranty. Remember if your doing something thats voids your warranty own up to it. Period
I don't know what the checksums have anything to do with the dealer finding out about tuning they are irrelevant in finding much our to the dealer level. If Ford (not the dealer) wants to find out about your tuning they have several tools. And yes Ford has the ability to send an engineer to the dealer if they are suspicious. But checksums will not come into play.
We are struggling with the verbiage "Vehicle Delivery Device" as every tuner device we can think of is in fact some type of vehicle delivery device?
Again we stand by to do the right thing, lying to the dealer or Ford is not right.
LME
Thanks for responding.
I agree that you should be upfront with your dealer and Ford. However, thats not the point i'm making here
I'm asking exactly what tools you think us engineers have to see if a ECU has been loaded with an aftermarket calibration? PTDiag? Vodu?
There are ways of guessing, but nothing definitive.
Checksums do come into play when it comes to loading a valid calibration on the device. I was assuming you thought that the previous calibrations checksum values were stored off in FLASH somewhere, and it was extracted for verification. Not the case. (the most common guess though)
To be honest, its hard to lock people out of ECU's now days, believe me. As you probably know, the TC series ECU's use 1024Bit RSA Signatures and about 70 checksum blocks. You would think virtually uncrackable with brute force methods... But here we stand...
Picture of VDD (or some people may recognize them from hypertech) below. Was commenting on the similarities.... thats all I was saying :coolman:
Cheers,
-Matt
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I went with the K&N CAI and 91 oct SCT4 for mine. This truck has only ever had 91 in it.
Here's the baseline pull:
[video=youtube;_bS7Aq2ltMg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bS7Aq2ltMg[/video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bS7Aq2ltMg
Some races when the truck was stock...
[video=youtube;y7Vs-rh_3EM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7Vs-rh_3EM[/video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7Vs-rh_3EM
[video=youtube;aOiqeKtfZPQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOiqeKtfZPQ[/video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOiqeKtfZPQ
The Truck is actually back on the Linked-Rollers this Thursday Morning to see what the NEW numbers are with the tune and then it will be back @ the Track Apr. 30th.
I have also swapped all the Tranny Fluid for Mobil 1 SYN ATF and went with the larger BFG KDW for the Summer Tire, the stock tires are a joke!
Good luck with your MODS.
Awesome. Have a '15 Sport ready to be picked up tomorrow! And an X4 sitting here on my desk
bj
bj
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