Tracking an 03

[iismet]

Looking for some help on cooling. I purchased my car in 2003 and drove it on the street for 23k. I purchased a replica cobra for track, but could not use it at the driving school. Since I had done some suspension, steering, chassis, & brake work to my SVT, I figured I would use it for the school.

Great car - Lot's of MM stuff, GSD3's & some Wilwoods on the front. I have run the car 3 times now. The last time I ran, we stopped floating around the track in 3rd and 4th and started using 2nd out of the slow corners onto the straights (Portland).

This increased speed and heat significantly and I went into limp mode in the last session. I have been studying here what I can do. We are pulling some of the plastic out of the front and are going to box the heat exchanger and radiator. I am not over heating the engine, but am going to box it all.

On the heat exchanger - I don't understand the dual fan setup. It would be great for cooling the system down after a session, but I assume you do not run the fans while you are running - is this correct?

If you do not run the fans, would they not present a severe restriction to flow at speed?


I am going to go to a bigger exchanger - the fans are intriguing, but not sure how they work in this application.

Looked at Killer Chiller, but it is misapplied for road work. Once we started running out in 2nd the car turned the AC compressor off and we ran the rest of the day with the windows down.

Struggle to look at the tach - hit the limiter a bunch( 2nd & 3rd) - gotta try to fix this.

One last question - I have run amsoil forever. I purchased some 10-30 racing oil. Is this a bad idea on an 03 Cobra. We are running the car very hard - I am uncertain of viscosity vs assembly tolerance. I am only driving on the street enough to get to, and home, from the track.

Not sure I will ever use it on the street again - I did take it off the market :-D

x-cliff

 

[sonic cobra]

You and everyone else who tracks an '03. I am still dealing with overheating on track myself, so I don't have the answer you seek. One obvious answer is to get a different track car, lighter and naturally aspirated. I just enjoy the hell out of my terminator.
One place to look would be the pulley and tune. The faster you spin the supercharger, the more heat you will generate. Also tuner should take a little timing out as the temps rise and add some fuel at higher revs to quench the pistons.
If you have a dyno sheet, check that too. I try to shift at 5500 to 6000 rpms as my power starts to fall off above 6 grand.
Only thing the fans are good for on the HE is to help cool the supercharger in the staging lanes between 1/4 mile runs IMO.
I never had any cooling issues when the car was stock but I wasn't driving it as fast then either.
I've been using amsoil 0w30 almost from the start and without issue. But its still a street car that plays on the track occasionally
Lots of racers on here better and smarter than I. I will be looking for some ideas here as well.
Good Luck

 

[racebronco2]

You can run with your windows up and the a/c running?

If you get a real heat extractor hood engine temps will go down so much that you will not need to worry about running hard in temps above 100*. I have made 4 hoods to date and none of us have to worry about engine temps in the desert. Two have Whipple's at 15psi and the other two had ported blowers at around 500rwhp.

I really don't see the point of reducing timing. If your engine temps are 234* and the blower temps are 155* your ecu will be pulling 2.6 degrees of timing based on engine temps and 3.6 based on the blower temps. That equals 6.2 degrees. That's more than enough for open tracking. I run the same timing based on octane whether i am on the street, open tracking, roll runs, mile runs or drag racing. The factory already has safety features already in place.

Trying to stay cool on track.
1. Run with the heater on high with the vents pointed towards the windows.
2. Shift early when you can (under 5000 rpms), running to redline before shifting will raise engine temps.
3. Try running 1 gear higher when you can. Like you found out it runs cooler not using second. If you must use a lower gear and higher rpms to make a pass just remember after the pass to allow the car to cool down a little by shifting early and to a higher gear or else the guy that you just passed will pass you back when you go into limp mode. Remember you don't need to pull away so fast, as long as you are not slowing the car down behind you.

 

[iismet]

My car is running stock power except for cold air and exhaust. Tuning is strictly chassis stiffening, suspension, steering, and brakes.

I saw a picture of your hood and pulled the vents out of mine today which is probably laughable, but it significantly increases the vent area.

I live in the Northwest so I do not have near the problems you guy's running in the south west.

I ran the car twice using the higher gear as you describe and did not have any trouble, but it is so much faster using 2nd. We were able to run down a 911 turbo looking thing in the last session which really surprised me, but a lot has to do with how hard one is willing to run. From the other classes I have run, I do not think we would have caught him using the higher gears.

You asked about windows up and AC on - that is how we have been running it. Once I started shifting to 2nd everything changed and AC stopped producing so we shut it off and ran with the windows down.

There is a lot to learn. I tend to run it until it spits when running the straights which is slow because of the recovery time. It pulls all the way to limiter.

A lot of my problem is mindless noob. I need to learn to watch the tach when entering the straights, but there is a lot going on for a new flyer. I am thinking of installing a shift light.

Are you still building the hoods?


x-cliff

 

[iismet]

Also - I am not overheating the engine (at least there is no indication) - the blower cooling system seems to be my trouble.

 

[ba#97]

I've never heard of running with the windows up and a/c on. Try shutting the a/c off...just a little less pull on the motor I'm sure will help, even if it's a tiny amount. And well...out here every group we have makes it illegal to run windows up anyways. But yep....I'd say try the hood for sure. They make a world of difference.

 

[iismet]

I spoke to an AFCO tech this morning. The pro series heat exchangers are pull not push - duh. The coated one is not coated, it is some kind of etching process that leaves the surface ruff to increase surface area. They were unable to provide any engineering data on it's effectiveness.

They are suppose to be thermostatically controlled, but I believe only when the key is on. Was unable to verify this. I plan to add an auxiliary switch so I can run them when the key is switched off.

There was an older guy running a Lotus sports racer with a blower - his stuff seemed to work pretty good.

Somehow Ford got the GT to work - anyone know how?

x-chr

 

[racebronco2]

The fans do nothing on track. They are causing higher temps in fact. They are restricting a big portion of the h/e from getting cooler air.

Do you have a real temp gauge? Do not trust the factory temp gauge, it doesn't move until it's around 250*. It's more of an idiot gauge. If the a'c stopped working than the car is getting really hot in the 240 range.




I have seen a few GT's running in the 90's go into limp mode on track. Steve Millen brought his GT out and it had more areo stuff on it and it was having cooling issues all weekend.

 

[iismet]

Do the fans mount on the engine side or bumper side? I assumed since they are pull, they are on the engine side.

I do not have a real gauge - we were just discussing this very issue.

x-chr

 

[iismet]

AFCO sent me the install instructions - pic lifted from instructions

I plan to install a gauge for the IC and seemingly Engine coolant. I should be able to do some testing and configuration if need be.

Fan running during session
Fan switched off during session
Fan delete - I hope not

If they could only be used for cool down between sessions I'd be happy.

At least they are positioned on the right side of the problem

I have been running at Pro Drive - they allow Windows up or Windows down - they love air conditioning - LOL.

I am running HPDE next month so AC and windows are probably out.

chr

 

[racebronco2]

I plan to install a gauge for the IC and seemingly Engine coolant. I should be able to do some testing and configuration if need be.

Fan running during session
Fan switched off during session
Fan delete - I hope not

If they could only be used for cool down between sessions I'd be happy.

At least they are positioned on the right side of the problem

I have been running at Pro Drive - they allow Windows up or Windows down - they love air conditioning - LOL.

I am running HPDE next month so AC and windows are probably out.

chr

The intercooler temps will not reflect change in the ait2's, been there done that. The main problem is the temp sensor itself gets heat soaked. Even if your i/c are reduced it doesn't mean the ecu will see any change in ait2's.

You will not see any change in the i/c with the fans on or off. You probably will see a change if you remove them. Wht do you think Afco like other companies will not provide you with engineering data? Because if they did you would not buy their product. Until you get the hood and the other supporting cooling products everything you add will provide a few more minutes of running hard but will get heat soaked. It will just take longer because of the added volume of water that has been added to the system.

If you access you diagnostic you can see your engine temps, it's in celcius.

 

[iismet]

The main problem is the temp sensor itself gets heat soaked.

Well that's f3ged up - can we relocate or something? I hear what you are saying - just throwing it out there.

x-chr

 

[racebronco2]

Well that's f3ged up - can we relocate or something? I hear what you are saying - just throwing it out there.

x-chr

That's one reason why it doesn't make any sense to remove timing. It's actually removing too much timing from the heat soaked sensor. I too thought about relocating the sensor but it just makes for extra safety.

You should read the below link. My car is one of two Whippled powered Cobra that are over 550 hp that can run in temps over 90* without going into limp mode while chasing down modded C6ZO6's.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/open-track-racing-203/871406-iat2s-under-control-100-temps.html

 

[wheelhopper]

I used a Fluidyne HE with good results. I never went into limp mode with my Terminator. The only thing I really had done was a tune with a some timing pulled and some extra fuel added. My street tune my 529rwhp and my track tune was an even 500rwhp. I am sure I drive harder now than I did then, but at the time it worked for me.

You must be running some tight tracks since you are dropping to second gear. I am on the east coast and I can not remember the last time I needed second gear on a track, even in my 264hp fox body.

 

[iismet]

I used a Fluidyne HE with good results. I never went into limp mode with my Terminator. The only thing I really had done was a tune with a some timing pulled and some extra fuel added. My street tune my 529rwhp and my track tune was an even 500rwhp. I am sure I drive harder now than I did then, but at the time it worked for me.

You must be running some tight tracks since you are dropping to second gear. I am on the east coast and I can not remember the last time I needed second gear on a track, even in my 264hp fox body.

Portland International. 1.9 miles. Turns 7 and 12. The passing zone starts at 9 on the back and the start of the straight on the front. By carrying turn 10 & 11 in 3rd (instead of 4th) we are carrying way too much speed at 12 so I use 2nd there and we are off to the races down the front straight. All of this always kept us in the torque which had us driving the turns instead of floating thru.

Portland International Raceway // Track Map

I am stock on power - we thought about pulley and tune to help with torque, but with the heat issue I wonder. My instructor is the one that moved me to 2nd. We were just short of torque when preparing to pass on straights.

Hard to the turn - brake for all I am worth with down shift fixed it - I guess that is subjective - but we were all over the cars when it was time to pass. When we ran these turns in 3rd it just took a little too long to build the torque we needed right then.

The down shifts require heel and toe - I was all little worried about that, but I practiced in my Wrangler for several weeks in boots. I figured when I got to the track I would try it in the morning session and if I could do it I would use it. With driving shoes on and a few times to build confidence I was going. Blew turn 1 early on, but it was just a matter of getting with it.

My instructor is an old racer (50's) - still races - maybe he is impatient

 

[racebronco2]

I used a Fluidyne HE with good results. I never went into limp mode with my Terminator. The only thing I really had done was a tune with a some timing pulled and some extra fuel added. My street tune my 529rwhp and my track tune was an even 500rwhp. I am sure I drive harder now than I did then, but at the time it worked for me.

You must be running some tight tracks since you are dropping to second gear. I am on the east coast and I can not remember the last time I needed second gear on a track, even in my 264hp fox body.

I always wondered how you could run hard and never go into limp mod. The tracks around here i don't drop down into second only because it would get too much wheel spin. The lowered powered car do drop down into second gear. Now it all makes sense.

 

[iismet]

You should read the below link.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/open-track-racing-203/871406-iat2s-under-control-100-temps.html

That is a great link - x

Why do you leave the black beauty plastic - it seems removing it would increase flow area? Maybe too much structure beneath I was going to pull it tomorrow to take a look.

 

[racebronco2]

That is a great link - x

Why do you leave the black beauty plastic - it seems removing it would increase flow area? Maybe too much structure beneath I was going to pull it tomorrow to take a look.

There is a flat surface below the beauty trim ring. It will not increase airflow since the amount of air entering is already captured by the bumper cover opening. On my car the air is being sucked thru the bumper cover opening and out the hood vents.

 

[iismet]

There is a flat surface below the beauty trim ring. It will not increase airflow since the amount of air entering is already captured by the bumper cover opening. On my car the air is being sucked thru the bumper cover opening and out the hood vents.

Hey - nice work on your research and thank you for sharing it.

One of your old posts talked about running a HE in the rear of the car. Are you still setup this way?

After reading thru your posts it seems ultimately you increased the volume of the system significantly i.e more coolant, larger overall HE area, and high flow pump. Did you use the dual outlet pump - one per HE?

I understand the heat removal is a big thing as that is what seems to keep your sensors cool in working range.

Where are the air sensors physically located?

x-chr

 

[iismet]

Found em

chr