Too much gear

[Silver5.0]

My question involves my dads 2010 3V car but there are many more of you running the kind of power levels we are dealing with than on the S197 page....so here are the spec's.


Built 4.6.. Teksid block, Manley I-beam rods, diamond pistons, cobra crank, 9:1
3-valve heads ported by fox lake
Custom grind blower cams
Stock intake with imrc's deleted
BBK t-body
1 3/4in long tubes
8rib conversion
Vortech t-trim 2.75in pulley with 10% overdrive crank pulley, vortech air to water intercooler, 19.5 psi @6500rpm
Snow performance water meth w/progressive controller
Drag springs with air bag in pass rear
Lakewood 70/30 struts in front
Lakewood 50/50 shocks in rear

All this equals..... 756rwhp 659ftlbs with 104oct in the tank
Made 698rwhp on 91oct street tune

Took it to the track for the first time today with our new motor build and it is a handful to say the least. Ran a 11.3@135mph on the street tune with a 2.0 60ft on 275/60/15 DR's. It has 4.10 gears which were great when it was making 500rwhp but they suck now...... Almost uncontrollable in in 1st and 2nd gear. We are thinking about 3.55's but I would like to hear from some of you who are running elevated power levels. Running 11's when you have a 9sec trap speed sucks..:shrug:

 

[SC2011GT]

Way too much gear.

 

[Silver5.0]

We knew that they would be too much now but I figured we would give them a try... Mistake! Hands were shaking after the first pass. 3.55's? Or should we go even taller? 3.31's?

 

[silver50]

We knew that they would be too much now but I figured we would give them a try... Mistake! Hands were shaking after the first pass. 3.55's? Or should we go even taller? 3.31's?

Most of the M6 that are FI like the 3.31 or even higher like 3.15. you are going to have to use a final gear calculator to figure it out though. Since the cars have two different types of transmissions. So different transmission gearing. something to look into man:rockon:

 

[Silver5.0]

Good point about the trans... The first gear in my dads TR3650 is much taller than in my '13 5.0. 3.15's would probably be a little too tall for the 2010.

 

[manolith]

you got the mph you need more traction i would think. 4.10 are not horrible with a 3650 in fact i think is the perfect gear for that setup. with a 28 inch tall tire you will trap in fourth gear at around 6800rpm at 135mph which should be no problem for that setup. i think that your issue is not the gears but the tires and suspension setup.

 

[Silver5.0]

you got the mph you need more traction i would think. 4.10 are not horrible with a 3650 in fact i think is the perfect gear for that setup. with a 28 inch tall tire you will trap in fourth gear at around 6800rpm at 135mph which should be no problem for that setup. i think that your issue is not the gears but the tires and suspension setup.

You are dead on with the RPM's... Went through the traps somewhere around 6600-6800. Not 100% for sure because I was just hanging on for dear life. It was just so damn violent coming out of the hole, almost could could not shift it fast enough. Our suspension has always worked well in the past but I have never dealt with this kind of power so we are not sure what else we need at this point... Cage and slicks are the only 2 things that are on the list right now.

 

[manolith]

You are dead on with the RPM's... Went through the traps somewhere around 6600-6800. Not 100% for sure because I was just hanging on for dear life. It was just so damn violent coming out of the hole, almost could could not shift it fast enough. Our suspension has always worked well in the past but I have never dealt with this kind of power so we are not sure what else we need at this point... Cage and slicks are the only 2 things that are on the list right now.

what tires are you guys running? try loading the suspension with a line lock like justin from jpc said the other day. once you stage hit the line lock and load the suspension by slipping the clutch and once you are good to go just floor it and let off the clutch and line lock at the same time. this will eliminate the initial shock of the launch. i am waiting for a line lock to do this next time i go to the track. ofcourse this is if you dont have slicks. if you have slicks then you can just dump the clutch. if you dont have a line lock then just roll out of the clutch smooth so you dont hit the tires so hard and they spin. the 60 foot time is high thats for sure. you should not have a problem with 1.7-1.6 60 feet times as long as you got good tires and decent suspension on that car. i was able to get 1.7 out of mine with around 650+rwhp and stock suspension on lowering springs.

 

[SC2011GT]

It will mph better if it hooks up and goes. 4.10s are way too short for that kind of power. Goto a 3.55 and let it get out and motivate in 1st gear, you will pick up mph.

 

[Silver5.0]

We are running 275/60/15 M/T drag radials. I know part of the problem is that the car has out run my current driving abilities so some practice is in order. It really feels like too much gear to me but perhaps I could learn to handle it..... Or maybe it's time for an automatic? Wonder if a A6 out of a 11-14 will mount up? They seem to be pretty stout.

 

[Silver5.0]

I think we will give 3.55's a try before we change anything else.

 

[manolith]

Don't change The gears. You have a centrifugal blower. It needs rpm to make boost. You are already trapping at almost max boost. If you lower the trap rpm you will be out of max boost thru the traps.

 

[Silver5.0]

Everyone has valid points.... Hard to know for sure what to do:shrug:

 

[nsty4vlve]

I would definitely go different gears cause if you were to catch traction you would be hitting 5th gear before the 1/4 also like manolith said you wanna hit max boost but I think with 3.90 or 3.73 would be almost perfect you could catch traction easier and still hit max boost and stay in 4th gear

 

[SC2011GT]

The car didn't hook at all. A 2.0 60' is GARBAGE. This alone is leaving back door mph on the table. If it doesn't motivate at the hit, your trap speed suffers.

You said yourself 1st and 2nd gear were "uncontrollable" and that you couldn't shift it fast enough. This doesn't sound conducive to getting the car rolling out, either.

Third, you said this was all on the street tune which is down 60 horsepower?

How could anyone then look at the mph from this junk pass and say "yep, its right at the top of 4th gear. PERFECT."

Put 3.55s in it, hook it up, drive the piss out of it and it will easily go 140+ out the back.

 

[me32]

Doesn't sound like gears are the problem you said this is a 2010 3v which means you have a 5 speed tremec. I would get a better tire. Thats your problem.

 

[manolith]

The car didn't hook at all. A 2.0 60' is GARBAGE. This alone is leaving back door mph on the table. If it doesn't motivate at the hit, your trap speed suffers.

You said yourself 1st and 2nd gear were "uncontrollable" and that you couldn't shift it fast enough. This doesn't sound conducive to getting the car rolling out, either.

Third, you said this was all on the street tune which is down 60 horsepower?

How could anyone then look at the mph from this junk pass and say "yep, its right at the top of 4th gear. PERFECT."

Put 3.55s in it, hook it up, drive the piss out of it and it will easily go 140+ out the back.

usually lower 60 feet times lowers trap speed. if he were to put 3.55 gears he will be out of peak power for the end of the run.

 

[SC2011GT]

usually lower 60 feet times lowers trap speed. if he were to put 3.55 gears he will be out of peak power for the end of the run.

You can't be serious.

 

[manolith]

You can't be serious.

oh i am being serious. its not always the case but alot of times lower 60 ft times will drop the trap speed. but even if it dead hooks it wont gain an extra 5mph on the top end. and even at 140mph the 4.10 gears will have the car trapping at 7k rpm.

 

[SC2011GT]

oh i am being serious. its not always the case but alot of times lower 60 ft times will drop the trap speed. but even if it dead hooks it wont gain an extra 5mph on the top end. and even at 140mph the 4.10 gears will have the car trapping at 7k rpm.

Incredible.

You don't know what you are talking about, and quite frankly should not be handing out advice.