Starting my cam swap next week.

Wallace7666

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So ill be pulling my motor shortly to begin the install of my new heads and comp stage 2 cams. I was wondering about adjustable timing components. I was thinking about going with MMR's fully adjustable setup but was curious, would it be better to go with an adjustable crank gear and adjustable secondary gear instead of the adjustable primary and secondary gears? Ive heard the adjustable primarys are prone to breakage.
 
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01yellercobra

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When I rebuild my engine that's what I was planning on doing. I've heard good and bad about the primary gears and don't want to take a chance.
 

MalcolmV8

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In for info. I need some cam adjustable gears myself and also don't know what to get yet.
 

Wallace7666

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Yeah ive heard mixed reviews. The full MMR kit looks to be really high quality but i still dont know the likelyhook of the primary gear moving after install.
 

LS-WHAT

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just talked to mmr about this very same subject along the with degreeing of cams ect. they said backing their product that these primarys once installed if insatlled correctly are set. also told me if we our doing a custom cam such as theirs the adjustable gears are not really ness. but a wide produced cam such as comp, crane, crowder this kit is needed.. so iam debating as well but i think the power iam going to be pushing i may just do it for insurance.
 

Wallace7666

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Do what for insurance? Not go with the adjustable primary? And mine are comp so I definitely want to degree them in properly.
 

encasedmetal

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just talked to mmr about this very same subject along the with degreeing of cams ect. they said backing their product that these primarys once installed if insatlled correctly are set. also told me if we our doing a custom cam such as theirs the adjustable gears are not really ness. but a wide produced cam such as comp, crane, crowder this kit is needed.. so iam debating as well but i think the power iam going to be pushing i may just do it for insurance.

bullshit and more bullshit (by the company you're referring to.) adjustable hex-adjust gears can slide out of position- it's happened. whereas no slot adjust (such as cloyes/trickflow) have moved. and they're much cheaper...
as for custom cams not needing to be degreed - that's hilarious. all cams should be adjusted, even the popular 96-98 cams after being degreed have shown a 20rwhp max increase. I saw a guy a couple days ago with custom cams installed straightup dot to dot and they read 125/110, whereas the int/exh that he needed was 108/116
 

MalcolmV8

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bullshit and more bullshit (by the company you're referring to.) adjustable hex-adjust gears can slide out of position- it's happened. whereas no slot adjust (such as cloyes/trickflow) have moved. and they're much cheaper...
as for custom cams not needing to be degreed - that's hilarious. all cams should be adjusted, even the popular 96-98 cams after being degreed have shown a 20rwhp max increase. I saw a guy a couple days ago with custom cams installed straightup dot to dot and they read 125/110, whereas the int/exh that he needed was 108/116

So Cloyes should be used? or not used? I'm so confused as to what I need to get for adjustable setup to degree my cams. I picked up a set of Comp Stage 3 cams if it makes a difference.
 

Mach828

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Would love some real info on what to buy with links or part numbers. I am only running 96 cobra cams but would like to degree them when I put my top end on my built short block.
 

encasedmetal

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So Cloyes should be used? or not used? I'm so confused as to what I need to get for adjustable setup to degree my cams. I picked up a set of Comp Stage 3 cams if it makes a difference.

trick flow crank gears and cloyes intake gears are the way to go both economically and reliably. here's a link to the cloyes intake gears
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-s790hp9/overview/
and here's the trick flow gears
http://www.modmaxracing.com/product_p/tfs51800505.htm
 

LS-WHAT

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so cloyes gears just for the intake cams, trickflow for the crank for exhaust side, correct?? what are you using for the exhaust gears? (stock) this is my first 4 valve build so iam really sketchy with the timing gears and ect. all help would be apreciated.
 

encasedmetal

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so cloyes gears just for the intake cams, trickflow for the crank for exhaust side, correct?? what are you using for the exhaust gears? (stock) this is my first 4 valve build so iam really sketchy with the timing gears and ect. all help would be apreciated.

the crank gears are what you use to degree the exhaust cams (as the primary timing chain is attached to only the exhaust side, retaining the stock exhaust cam gear) and then after that's set you time the intake cams using the cloyes and secondary timing chain.
 

LS-WHAT

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our you guys using stock pass. side tensioners?? whats your opion about chains them self mine has about 90000 on them did you all replace yours or would you? sorry wallace76 not trying to steal your post here. just interested in what you guys are doing.
 

encasedmetal

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our you guys using stock pass. side tensioners?? whats your opion about chains them self mine has about 90000 on them did you all replace yours or would you? sorry wallace76 not trying to steal your post here. just interested in what you guys are doing.

I do new tensioners on both sides with any engine build as new ones lend themselves towards greater accuracy when degreeing in and piece of mind. as for the chains- my biggest suggestion is to swap them out for GT500 secondary chains (I use them and they're sweet). never seen one break, but I've sure as fire seen more than a few cobra secondary chains break- all kinds of carnage!
 

MalcolmV8

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trick flow crank gears and cloyes intake gears are the way to go both economically and reliably. here's a link to the cloyes intake gears
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-s790hp9/overview/
and here's the trick flow gears
http://www.modmaxracing.com/product_p/tfs51800505.htm

Oh I see. So that setup is most reliable because nothing can come loose or slip on timing. Once those gears are in place that's it. My guess is the downside is adjusting them takes many hours by comparison because you can't just loosen some allen screws and shift the timing you have to pull off the timing wheel on the crank, the chains and sprockets to adjust and then reset up, recenter your timing wheel, re find true TDC on the #1 piston etc. and re-check. Of course once you're done you're done and it's all good.
Thanks for the links too BTW.

I imagine two of each item you linked to? Question on the crank gears. The stock unit is a one piece and the key it sits on does not fully extend the entire length. What happens with a two piece adjustable design? Is one of the gears prone to snapping or breaking the key?
 

encasedmetal

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Oh I see. So that setup is most reliable because nothing can come loose or slip on timing. Once those gears are in place that's it. My guess is the downside is adjusting them takes many hours by comparison because you can't just loosen some allen screws and shift the timing you have to pull off the timing wheel on the crank, the chains and sprockets to adjust and then reset up, recenter your timing wheel, re find true TDC on the #1 piston etc. and re-check. Of course once you're done you're done and it's all good.
Thanks for the links too BTW.

I imagine two of each item you linked to? Question on the crank gears. The stock unit is a one piece and the key it sits on does not fully extend the entire length. What happens with a two piece adjustable design? Is one of the gears prone to snapping or breaking the key?

I extend the key- like you said it's work but only a full weekend for the keyway and degreeing if you've never done it before. which isn't much. here's a pic of when i was extending one- remove the original key, extend the keyway with a pumpkin cut at the engine side, match new keystock and you're off to the races.
keyway.jpg
 

encasedmetal

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I extend the key- like you said it's work but only a full weekend if you've never done it before. which isn't much. here's a pic of when i was extending one- remove the original key, extend the keyway with a pumpkin cut at the engine side, match new keystock and you're off to the races.
keyway.jpg

also of note, is you don't need all of the cam holding tools and BS using this setup since you're using the keyways for adjustment. so another reason it's cheaper
 

MalcolmV8

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Is this key stock? It seems fairly long to me already unless I'm missing something.

IMG_4021.JPG


sorry lighting was not the best, tried another pic

IMG_4023.JPG


Here's with the stock crank gears slid on. Is it that tiny gap you see on the left that is of concern?

IMG_4024.JPG
 

encasedmetal

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Is this key stock? It seems fairly long to me already unless I'm missing something.

IMG_4021.JPG


sorry lighting was not the best, tried another pic

IMG_4023.JPG


Here's with the stock crank gears slid on. Is it that tiny gap you see on the left that is of concern?

IMG_4024.JPG

Looks pretty good it's just hard to tell if the key is even in height all the way through on my phone.
 

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