If you get the plug and play model it keeps the stock gauges.
Single vs twin
- Thread starter Marvin9075
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Could you send me his information by chance … I have to see if they will let me use there dyno for remote tuning
Little bit of an update.
Car has FIC 1400cc and switching to ID 1050s per what the tuner likes .
Turns out one of my fuel pumps wasn’t plugged in and damaged so swapping those out for two hell cat pumps
Upgraded the turbos to twin ball bearing 62 66s
Using the E boost 2 as the controller and going back to the stock computer for now. Would like to stick with the ms3 but always run into issues with getting the car registered here in Texas since it still needs to be plugged in to a state inspection machine to pass. Tired of having to work around that every year. Whenever I get classic insurance on the car I’ll switch back to a stand alone system since it won’t need an emissions test.
Cg fab single kit will be out of the car soon and up for sale for a quick sale. Throw me a pm if interested.
Goal on stock motor is mid 900s on E85
Car has FIC 1400cc and switching to ID 1050s per what the tuner likes .
Turns out one of my fuel pumps wasn’t plugged in and damaged so swapping those out for two hell cat pumps
Upgraded the turbos to twin ball bearing 62 66s
Using the E boost 2 as the controller and going back to the stock computer for now. Would like to stick with the ms3 but always run into issues with getting the car registered here in Texas since it still needs to be plugged in to a state inspection machine to pass. Tired of having to work around that every year. Whenever I get classic insurance on the car I’ll switch back to a stand alone system since it won’t need an emissions test.
Cg fab single kit will be out of the car soon and up for sale for a quick sale. Throw me a pm if interested.
Goal on stock motor is mid 900s on E85
I know turbos make more power than blowers at the same boost, but I think switching to 1050’s is a mistake. I’m making 829 through my KB blower on 1050’s. I had to raise my base pressure to 50 lbs to not run out of fuel. I’m running 22 psi on E85.
Even on a turbo, I’m not sure 1050’s will support 900 hp. You might need more injector for your goals.
I messaged the tuner today to clarify cause I did some research and it looked like 800 Range was the most for them … it’s possible they put the wrong size injector on the estimate they gave me so I’ll find out for sure
I'd look into ID1300's if he wants ID's. But the FIC's aren't bad. Makes me wonder why he doesn't like them.
I guess they have had problems with the FICs in the past… yeah I think the ID1300s are good for 200 Hp per injector from what I was reading and the 1050s are 80-120 Hp per injector.
Talked to the tuner and he said at 900 hp the injector would be at 83 percent duty cycle so that leaves a little room … I am so over budget with this build I am just sticking with that … he said he could get close to to 1000 but I am stock motor and don’t need to go much above the 900’mark
If budget is the problem, then you should save over $1000 and use the 1400cc injectors you already have.
I feel this shop is giving you bad information. Going away from the MS3 and now swapping injectors too. I’d be searching for a new tuner personally. Let them assemble the car for you and go elsewhere for a tune.
I get it you want the car done. I would tell the shop to leave the FIC 1400's in and leave the MS3 in as well. Once they get everything buttoned up get your tuner to remote in and get the car running. Take the car home and have the tuner dial in drivability. Once that is done take it to the dyno and have your tuner remote in and finish up the wot tuning. Pretty easy. Spending money to down grade the ecu and injectors is not the right move. I run a MS3 with FIC 1650's and the combo drives like stock.
This car has been down for Over a year and I am at the point where I just want it done all in one place. I don’t disagree that going back to the stock computer is a down grade. They tune with Holley so maybe I can use that instead ? The other problem I run into every year with a stand alone ECU is getting it to pass the state inspection since the computer will not register with the states equipment then I have to pay hundreds of dollars to get it to pass by sliding some Benjamin’s someone’s way .
The last thing I want to do is take the car somewhere else to tune it and dyno it and possibly wait a couple months to get that done as well .
The shop doesn’t disagree that the ms3 is better . They just don’t have any run time with the software. Not sure how expensive Holley is but I could go that route. True street motorsports has been in the game a very long time and I fully trust there ability to build this car . Clint the owner has built a lot of these terminators.
The last thing I want to do is take the car somewhere else to tune it and dyno it and possibly wait a couple months to get that done as well .
The shop doesn’t disagree that the ms3 is better . They just don’t have any run time with the software. Not sure how expensive Holley is but I could go that route. True street motorsports has been in the game a very long time and I fully trust there ability to build this car . Clint the owner has built a lot of these terminators.
Does anyone know anything about Holley compared to ms3 ? Price difference and options ?
Do you want to keep the stock gauges? My understanding is there isn't a direct plug and play for the Holley with these cars. You have to purchase extra pieces to get it to work. So more money and more wiring to deal with. You'll have the same problem passing inspection.
Just my thoughts.....
You're going to spend more money and cause more headaches for yourself trying to swap ECU's at this point. I haven't tuned with Holley yet, but I'm familiar with the software as I've been working on a base tune for a friend to get his car started. It's the same thing. Really, all stand alones do the same job. The difference is in the tuning software. You just have to learn the labels each one uses. For example, instead of saying "ignition timing", Haltech uses "spark angle". Took me a few minutes to figure that one out. They all have cold start tables. They all have acceleration enrichment tables. And honestly, from what I've seen, MS3 has the simplest layout for all of that. It still comes down to dialing the correct A/F and timing. Which they should not have a problem figuring things out.
Not that it matters to most, but a couple things I don't like about the Holley is that they have three tables to set up accleration enrichment. That's two more than needed IMO. And they don't support using a MAF. I know a lot of people don't care about that, but it made tuning my car easier and I don't have to worry about tweaking anything when I drive 300+ miles from home.
FWIW, a friend of mine is running the FIC 1400's with an MS3 and it tunes just fine. I'd do like Chris suggested and have them assemble it and then find another tuner. Even Malcolm tunes MS3. There's tons of support out there.
Just my thoughts.....
You're going to spend more money and cause more headaches for yourself trying to swap ECU's at this point. I haven't tuned with Holley yet, but I'm familiar with the software as I've been working on a base tune for a friend to get his car started. It's the same thing. Really, all stand alones do the same job. The difference is in the tuning software. You just have to learn the labels each one uses. For example, instead of saying "ignition timing", Haltech uses "spark angle". Took me a few minutes to figure that one out. They all have cold start tables. They all have acceleration enrichment tables. And honestly, from what I've seen, MS3 has the simplest layout for all of that. It still comes down to dialing the correct A/F and timing. Which they should not have a problem figuring things out.
Not that it matters to most, but a couple things I don't like about the Holley is that they have three tables to set up accleration enrichment. That's two more than needed IMO. And they don't support using a MAF. I know a lot of people don't care about that, but it made tuning my car easier and I don't have to worry about tweaking anything when I drive 300+ miles from home.
FWIW, a friend of mine is running the FIC 1400's with an MS3 and it tunes just fine. I'd do like Chris suggested and have them assemble it and then find another tuner. Even Malcolm tunes MS3. There's tons of support out there.
to keep the factory gauges with the holly is another $1500 bucks or so for the plug and play harness setup from what I remember.
as far as emissions - does it have to be run on a dyno or anything or literally just plugged in and scanned? Wondering if they can do a base tune good enough to swap the OE ECU back, baby it over there, pass and put the MS3 back. Then just do that swap on whatever interval. Any chance you can age the car out as a classic or something like that? I know every state is different (or just knowing that in 5 years you can do it etc).
as far as emissions - does it have to be run on a dyno or anything or literally just plugged in and scanned? Wondering if they can do a base tune good enough to swap the OE ECU back, baby it over there, pass and put the MS3 back. Then just do that swap on whatever interval. Any chance you can age the car out as a classic or something like that? I know every state is different (or just knowing that in 5 years you can do it etc).
That was actually my plan with my set up originally. I could swap everything out in about an hour. That included putting the narrow band sensors back in.
Honestly, taking a 25 year old car and building it up to a powerful turbo car, you probably just need to switch to collector plates and be done with emissions.
Yeah that’s my plan. For geico the car needs to me 25 years old for classic. I am sure there’s other companies I can switch too that allow classic insurance sooner then 25 years.
It’ plugged in and scanned on a state inspection machine.
I know every state is different, but the whole registration, plates, emissions ect has to do with the state you like in, not who insures the car.
Got it … just looked it up and Texas is 25 years
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