Everything.
Religion vs Science debate: bring it in here
- Thread starter James Snover
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Everything.
Close. Temet Nosce "Know Thyself"
Why is Christmas celebrated in December? Why is Easter in the Spring? Because that's how you bring the unorganized tribes into your religion, you make your most important days coincide with their most important days and convince them that it's ok. There are multiple messiah stories in different religions that all have virgin births and 3-day postmortem resurrections. It goes on and on, just ripped off and repackaged for the next generation of suckers.
Religion is nothing more than a means of control and a way to try to explain things that we didn't understand at the time. Does science have all the answers? Nope, and probably never will. But at least science keeps asking the questions and seeking answers, instead of just giving credit to a supernatural being and calling it a day.
Wait, so now God is in control? Then **** him. **** him for all of the kids that die from cancer and other horrible diseases. What? He can't help those kids? Then he's not in control. Which is it?
I'll stick with Joe Pesci.
http://youtu.be/gPOfurmrjxo
But that is just it, I, you, humanity doesn’t need a book to tell us not to be a dick.
The argument could be made that a few thousand years ago maybe it was a decent solution that could quickly give birth to ethical civilizations. That by saying a sky man was watching and would eternally torture you if you weren’t “good” more quickly brought about morality than just telling primitive man that solidarity was important merely for the sake of group cohesion sans reward.
Look at all of the ideas over the millennia that man has discarded as he outpaced the usefulness of them. Isn’t it clear that religion is just another example of one of these ancient primitive ideas?
So you believe unicorns exist? Santa Claus? There isn’t any evidence these entities don’t exist either. This is the common misuse of logic that many of faith use as a rationale. It is impossible to prove anything does not exist. That is not positive proof of the assertion it does.
None of these are examples of absolute faith. At the most they are examples of rationale faith.
There is evidence of justice. We can witness our judicial system flawed as it might be properly and thoroughly provide justice in many of not perhaps most situations. I don’t have to take anyone for their word that justice can be done, I can observe it. I’ve never observed a god.
The goodness of mankind similarly can be witnessed. Man might not always do what is right or good but there are plenty of stories and evidence that people do act righteously. Once again, something than can be witnessed, observed.
Honest government? I don’t believe that exists and I haven’t seen any evidence of that yet :beer:
Love, like goodness and justice is observable. Both the results of the emotion based in actions as well as the personal feelings can be experienced.
None of these enter the realm of absolute faith, whereas I am required to suspend any and all objectivity and expectation of empiricism when it comes to god these concepts are rationale expectations based upon observation and experience.
That is the point. MEN of the bronze age would think like and provide the ideas within the scriptures. An omnipotent, omniscient god shouldn’t have thought like bronze age humans and surely should have been capable of directing man better if he truly was the all powerful creator of the universe.
Doesn’t it make much more sense that fallible, impotent humans created an imperfect, transient god?
The problem is that there is no such thing as science. Just men seeking answers, and solutions to problems.
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At least you are honest about your psychosis.
But you must admit the application of faith outside of the religious realm is either nonexistent or unrecognizable as faith. Why? What is it about religion that makes in inherently deserving of this faith? Or is it more likely that religion represents something people deeply want to believe and faith is the justification?
I pretty much look at the bible (or any other religious book) as a book written to keep people in line. I do still believe there could be a god or higher power that created the universe, but I don't believe it had anything to do with the bible. Even if it was written by God himself, it has been altered by mistranslations, misunderstandings, and kings who picked and chose what they thought should be in it, that it would be unrecognizable. Some of the things that are in there are pretty ridiculous, I would hope that even the religious folk can see that. I grew up catholic, so I have seen both sides. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of something they believe in, religion is not all bad. Some people need the comfort of believing the stories in their book, others use the good lessons to stay out of trouble or turn their lives around. I just have a problem with the extremists, and not just the obvious ones with bombs strapped to them. Some of the ones here in good ole 'Merica can be pretty bad too.
religion and science are incompatible.
to me, science owns religion because over the centuries religion has had to keep revising its stories because of the obvious truth that science provides. the latest example I can think of is the church of England formal apology to Darwin and how now some people like say that, well, god must have used evolution to create man. lol
and make no mistake, if you think that a very charismatic fellow from 2000 years ago returned from the dead to save you, and you are going to be with him after you die, you are religious. (seems like the latest chic argument out there is that religions suck, but jebus is ok.) another lol.
to me, science owns religion because over the centuries religion has had to keep revising its stories because of the obvious truth that science provides. the latest example I can think of is the church of England formal apology to Darwin and how now some people like say that, well, god must have used evolution to create man. lol
and make no mistake, if you think that a very charismatic fellow from 2000 years ago returned from the dead to save you, and you are going to be with him after you die, you are religious. (seems like the latest chic argument out there is that religions suck, but jebus is ok.) another lol.
Mr.Bolt-on said:
Okay, we're just humans seeking answers. But it's worth noting the exploratory difference between seeking with experiment versus implying with faith.
Science is us asking the questions and LETTING NATURE PROVIDE THE ANSWERS.
.
oke:God is not real.
Christopher Hitchens commonly remarked offhandedly that religion gave way to philosophy and philosophy gave way to science, the same way alchemy led to chemistry, and astrology led to astronomy.
Hitchens is right.
I think the foundation of religion shifted when Galileo convinced the world over 400 years ago that truth should be derived from observation rather than authority. He did this by advocating the Copernican model of our solar system over the earth-centric model subscribed to by the church.
I salute you Galileo.
:rockon:
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Hitchens is right.
I think the foundation of religion shifted when Galileo convinced the world over 400 years ago that truth should be derived from observation rather than authority. He did this by advocating the Copernican model of our solar system over the earth-centric model subscribed to by the church.
I salute you Galileo.
:rockon:
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I've said this before but to me, religion offers, and therefore has had a hold on this world for two reasons.
1. It provides explanation for the unexplainable.
2. Hope to the hopeless (strength to the weak).
Example. The Vikings thousands of years ago, knowing nothing about the orbit of planets or the solar system in general, believe that the moon and sun chased each other. Every now and then, one would catch the other. We know this as a solar or lunar eclipse. We humans want to explain our world. When we can't, its natural to assume a "god" or "higher power is at work. It comforts us. The Vikings believed if they banged their weapons, screamed, and generally just acted a fool, the gods would break up their game of catch and release each other. Now obviously this eclipse would end either way but try to convince them otherwise.
Or, a bus load of kids is killed going to school. Well it must be gods will. That explains it. There is no other possible explanation. Again, explanation for the unexplainable.
As for the second part, let's say you have a job interview. If gods on my side, I'll knock this out of the park! Give me strength lord.
Its very hard to overcome this indoctrination because we grow up thinking this fantasy is true. And if you believe you did get that job because of god, it just furthers this fantasy.
1. It provides explanation for the unexplainable.
2. Hope to the hopeless (strength to the weak).
Example. The Vikings thousands of years ago, knowing nothing about the orbit of planets or the solar system in general, believe that the moon and sun chased each other. Every now and then, one would catch the other. We know this as a solar or lunar eclipse. We humans want to explain our world. When we can't, its natural to assume a "god" or "higher power is at work. It comforts us. The Vikings believed if they banged their weapons, screamed, and generally just acted a fool, the gods would break up their game of catch and release each other. Now obviously this eclipse would end either way but try to convince them otherwise.
Or, a bus load of kids is killed going to school. Well it must be gods will. That explains it. There is no other possible explanation. Again, explanation for the unexplainable.
As for the second part, let's say you have a job interview. If gods on my side, I'll knock this out of the park! Give me strength lord.
Its very hard to overcome this indoctrination because we grow up thinking this fantasy is true. And if you believe you did get that job because of god, it just furthers this fantasy.
this is true for some ..but I don't think all
this is true only for those that believe that God cares about every little facet of our lives. God does not will bus loads of children to die, nor does he give a shit about that job interview you go on. the religious right that believes this are deluding themselves.
my take on this, is that God cares about the big picture not the minutia of every second of our lives. he allows man their free will, and does not interfere for the most part. everything good or bad does not come from God. most of it comes from man's own decisions or actions. one day we will all be held accountable and he will sort it out. and a LOT of people are going to be disappointed.
I will not defend this viewpoint it is mine. take it or leave it.
Yes. I know God exist simply because I understand how the world works and through years of research I've come understand the "true version" of history and not just on blind faith.
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
You understand how the world works?
Then why don't you enlighten all the scientitsts who apparently DON'T understand "how the world works" since they don't believe in gawd?
Better yet, why not publish the research you've done that allows you to KNOW God exists?
Maybe - if you really worked at it - you could be a little more arrogant.
And what an easy task he had, mission accomplished.
Word!
The Bible teaches that there are numerous false gods. He is the one true God. Its the easiest way to identify Him.
That's easy, its so His creation could debate it on an internet forum thousands of years after the fact. All in attempt to better know Him
We weren't created "flawed"; we were perfect in His eyes. Are we truly flawed? Or is it evilness entering our thought process?
What was God doing before creation? Did evil exist?
Your thoughts on the nephilim/anakim? Were they the offspring of satans followers/fallen angels?
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/alien_watchers10.htm
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