Question on the Gen 2 motor ?

[DAVESVT2000]

But it really shines on the road course where it belongs.

did two 2 day open track events with my 2020 this summer and it was night and day compared to my 2012 Boss 302 LS.

 

[Cobra Therapy]

It would be nice if FORD did a new BOSS 351 with a new style 5.8 with a FPC,with 600 + N/A power!!8500 RPM!!

 

[03reptile]

Well, thats kinda the underlying problem with the car is it costs a shit ton of money to buy then u have to add a shit ton of money to give it any power. Those bolt-ons and a tune are worth about a 100 hp if ur tuning for gas. A 100 hp still makes the car slow bro no offense. It needs like 250 hp.

U dont have to do shit to a GT500 and its still fast as ****! Same cant be said for lame as GT350.

Again, this is a $60k car! It shouldn't need a bunch of bolt-on shit to make it a little faster then it is stock!

I understand your points reference power, but the GT350 wasn't designed to be a straight line performer. Sure Ford could have put a larger, more powerful, and heavier V-8 in the nose; however, I think they would have sacrificed the balance and handling characteristics of their original mission for the car. If you bought the car for power alone, you probably are going to be disappointed if you want a straight line performer as the 13/14's were. I have no plans to increase the HP on my 2019 GT350 as the engineers know far more than I do about the balance and performance characteristics of this car that make it a canyon carver and not a 1/4 mile car. I drove my 2013 GT500 on road courses and it's 662 HP, live rear axle, and it's old school suspension design did it no favors when cornering. My times were far better with the GT350 and it's "lame" 526 HP. It's all about what your requirements are for the car you purchase.

 

[GNBRETT]

No it doesn't need a more powerful engine, it just needs a power adder. IMO they just missed the boat totally with this car.

The Camaro ZL1 is a perfect example. Will beat the GT350 at the track and destroy it going down the hi-way in STOCK form and with a few bolt-on mods and some E85 and u have a 9 second car.

The GT350 doesn't have the option to go faster cause it has no power adder. Yea I guess most ppl are fine with stock power...... till they go for a ride in one that isn't.

I understand your points reference power, but the GT350 wasn't designed to be a straight line performer. Sure Ford could have put a larger, more powerful, and heavier V-8 in the nose; however, I think they would have sacrificed the balance and handling characteristics of their original mission for the car. If you bought the car for power alone, you probably are going to be disappointed if you want a straight line performer as the 13/14's were. I have no plans to increase the HP on my 2019 GT350 as the engineers know far more than I do about the balance and performance characteristics of this car that make it a canyon carver and not a 1/4 mile car. I drove my 2013 GT500 on road courses and it's 662 HP, live rear axle, and it's old school suspension design did it no favors when cornering. My times were far better with the GT350 and it's "lame" 526 HP. It's all about what your requirements are for the car you purchase.

 

[DAVESVT2000]

The GT350 was never meant to be a drag car

 

[cidsamuth]

What also needs said . . . I personally believe the GT350 was meant to be Ford's answer to the 14/15 Z28. Neither car is a crazy powerhouse; both naturally aspirated track cars meant to be kept in the higher RPM range.

I've never driven either, but I did own a 2014 SS 1LE brand new. That car only had 430ish HP at the crank, but it was so fun to drive. It felt like it couldn't be wrecked in the turns; a true example of a "handles like its on rails" vehicle. I can only imagine how much better the new 1LEs or the GT350s.

By comparison, I'm in the 800-900 crank HP range on my 2008 Mustang GT . . . it's fun, but it also feels like I'm trying to roller skate on an icy lake until I get to 4th gear.

It all comes down to what you want.

 

[03reptile]

No it doesn't need a more powerful engine, it just needs a power adder. IMO they just missed the boat totally with this car.

The Camaro ZL1 is a perfect example. Will beat the GT350 at the track and destroy it going down the hi-way in STOCK form and with a few bolt-on mods and some E85 and u have a 9 second car.

The GT350 doesn't have the option to go faster cause it has no power adder. Yea I guess most ppl are fine with stock power...... till they go for a ride in one that isn't.

I think they were limited with the 5.2 engine. Ford wants an engine that is reliable. There are aftermarket add on's such as turbo kits and superchargers for the GT350, but these also tend to nullify your warranty and put additional strain on the engine. Not worth the effort or money in my opinion. If one want's a 9 second car, get the GT500 or similar, mod the hell out of it, and you'll be happy. For what the GT350 was designed to do, Ford hit a home run. It's apples and oranges.

 

[ANGREY]

It would be nice if FORD did a new BOSS 351 with a new style 5.8 with a FPC,with 600 + N/A power!!8500 RPM!!

I think they pushed the limits of the NVH with 5.2 liters. There's a reason you don't see flat plane crank motors bigger than a certain threshold, even in V-10 and V-12 configuration.

 

[GNBRETT]

They definitely didnt hit a home run. Pretty much anyone who has ever driven in one complains about the lack of TQ the engine makes so thats the furthest thing from a "Home Run" bro. People dont run out to buy a GT350 cause of what the "Track Times" were. They really dont!

The engine can handle 1200+ whp np problem so the motor is more than capable of handling a LOT more hp so adding a blower will put it at about 900 whp and that motor wouldnt even be breathing at those power levels.

The car has spectacular heads! It can make shit ton more hp than it does stock and still be terribly reliable.

When u say Apples to Oranges thats like saying "Well, the GT350 is a track car so its slow in the straights but killer in the corners". Bro, 99% of the ppl buying a GT350 will NEVER and mean NEVER take it to the track. They will be on city streets with it like 99% of the rest of the ppl who have "Fast cars".

And the car just has ZERO character. Its like a round bubble. How much more ROUND can they make the dam thing? It resembles NOTHING like the original GT350. Ford missed the boat here where as Dodge and Chevy NAILED it with the Challenger and Camaro. THOSE actually look like iconic cars. That cannot be said for the GT350.

I think they were limited with the 5.2 engine. Ford wants an engine that is reliable. There are aftermarket add on's such as turbo kits and superchargers for the GT350, but these also tend to nullify your warranty and put additional strain on the engine. Not worth the effort or money in my opinion. If one want's a 9 second car, get the GT500 or similar, mod the hell out of it, and you'll be happy. For what the GT350 was designed to do, Ford hit a home run. It's apples and oranges.

 

[HiTechRedneck]

Difference in price 350 vs. 500? Sort of a moot point if you're buying new as the 350 is out. Can't believe I'm going to say this since I'm an ex pro stock racer but maybe I'm older and occasionally wiser, but horsepower only counts if you can hook it up. I know our 12 had to have drag radials and some suspension work to be able to use 1st gear - not sure how well the traction control works on the new 500's so no comment there. Also need to look at how the car is being used, straight line (which is where I grew up in the 60's and 70's) or overall driving. Don't get me wrong, even at 71` years old I still love the HP - take a look at what I raced when I was 17!

 

[DAVESVT2000]

Bro, 99% of the ppl buying a GT350 will NEVER and mean NEVER take it to the track.

I guess that makes me a 1%’er !!

but seriously, I knew what I was buying, and what it was capable of on the track vs the street when I bought it.

as you pointed out, 99% of the people bought it, because it was the latest and greatest, and were very disappointed with it on the street.

they bitched and moaned, and traded them in within a year for a mopar or Chevy Camaro. And that’s fine too.

 

[ANGREY]

They definitely didnt hit a home run. Pretty much anyone who has ever driven in one complains about the lack of TQ the engine makes so thats the furthest thing from a "Home Run" bro. People dont run out to buy a GT350 cause of what the "Track Times" were. They really dont!

The engine can handle 1200+ whp np problem so the motor is more than capable of handling a LOT more hp so adding a blower will put it at about 900 whp and that motor wouldnt even be breathing at those power levels.

The car has spectacular heads! It can make shit ton more hp than it does stock and still be terribly reliable.

When u say Apples to Oranges thats like saying "Well, the GT350 is a track car so its slow in the straights but killer in the corners". Bro, 99% of the ppl buying a GT350 will NEVER and mean NEVER take it to the track. They will be on city streets with it like 99% of the rest of the ppl who have "Fast cars".

And the car just has ZERO character. Its like a round bubble. How much more ROUND can they make the dam thing? It resembles NOTHING like the original GT350. Ford missed the boat here where as Dodge and Chevy NAILED it with the Challenger and Camaro. THOSE actually look like iconic cars. That cannot be said for the GT350.

Your post is full of a bunch of either unfair obligations (to Ford) or misconceptions.

First, who decided the GT350 had to look exactly like or closely like the original? Where is that rule written? The new(er) Jeep Willys doesn't look exactly like the original. The Ford F-150 sure doesn't look like the original, so it must be a failure? Not for nothing, it was FORD who kicked off the retro movement, first with the failed Thunderbird and then with the 2005 Mustang. The only other car company to sell anything even remotely successful to the movement was the PT cruiser. Ford knows the retro movement has/had value, but it's not the ONLY factor in continued sales success (unlike Dodge who continues to bang that button all the way to the bank laughing about how stupid their customers are for buying 30 year old parts bin cars that simply look retro and offer virtually no other redeeming feature).

Second, you hear this all the time...."You'll never take it to the track." When's the last time 95% of people used their 4 wheel drive or took their SUV off roading? What, so now the Raptor makes no sense because none of it's owners will ever race it in Baja? Is my dive watch a waste of money because it'll never see 200 meter depths? We buy cars that have awesome features and there's no obligation to use them in any other way than to enjoy them. Which brings me to the fallacy of your point, I don't need to take my 350 to a "track" or road course to enjoy the benefits of braking and turning.

And the myth of torque is just that, it's a problem for NDMF's who don't know how to operate a car/motor in the proper range. Ironically, it has more torque at just about ANY rpm than the 2003 SVT cobra and you didn't hear people bitching about that being a gutless no torque turd. The GT350 has PLENTY of torque (more than the GT), it just makes it in a different way. You could say "I'm really lazy and I'm used to torque in lower rpms and I've never driven a high performance car so I'd prefer the car to just be the same old bloated big displacement motor where I can pass people on the highway without having the chore of shifting gears."

I don't disagree that it's different. I don't disagree that if you want to LUG the motor, it's not the best option. If I wanted something that moves abruptly at less than 2,000 rpms I'll buy a John Deere.

 

[GNBRETT]

So why did Dodge and Chevy mirror the "Original" design then? Simple, cause they are trying to retain the iconic image of that car and Ford missed that boat by a mile. The GT350 doesn't resemble anything other than a new Mustang which resembles nothing.

Bro a 4x wheel drive truck has a purpose other than Baja. There is this thing called Snow. Maybe uve heard of it. But, ur right plenty of ppl drive Raptors and Jeeps that dont live in cold climates so fair enough.

But as far as having low TQ u cant compare a 2020 $60k GT500 to a 2003 Cobra. Not quite apples to apples. Ud have to compare it to the ZL1 and the ZL1 simply out classes it in every way and has character. But main difference being is if someone wanting to go really fast in their 03 Cobra they can with bolt-ons/E85 cause it has a power adder.

I think the GT350 with a Whipple is badass tho. I just wish it came with an Auto option. The guys at Fatfab sure do build some wicked GT350's tho no doubt.

Your post is full of a bunch of either unfair obligations (to Ford) or misconceptions.

First, who decided the GT350 had to look exactly like or closely like the original? Where is that rule written? The new(er) Jeep Willys doesn't look exactly like the original. The Ford F-150 sure doesn't look like the original, so it must be a failure? Not for nothing, it was FORD who kicked off the retro movement, first with the failed Thunderbird and then with the 2005 Mustang. The only other car company to sell anything even remotely successful to the movement was the PT cruiser. Ford knows the retro movement has/had value, but it's not the ONLY factor in continued sales success (unlike Dodge who continues to bang that button all the way to the bank laughing about how stupid their customers are for buying 30 year old parts bin cars that simply look retro and offer virtually no other redeeming feature).

Second, you hear this all the time...."You'll never take it to the track." When's the last time 95% of people used their 4 wheel drive or took their SUV off roading? What, so now the Raptor makes no sense because none of it's owners will ever race it in Baja? Is my dive watch a waste of money because it'll never see 200 meter depths? We buy cars that have awesome features and there's no obligation to use them in any other way than to enjoy them. Which brings me to the fallacy of your point, I don't need to take my 350 to a "track" or road course to enjoy the benefits of braking and turning.

And the myth of torque is just that, it's a problem for NDMF's who don't know how to operate a car/motor in the proper range. Ironically, it has more torque at just about ANY rpm than the 2003 SVT cobra and you didn't hear people bitching about that being a gutless no torque turd. The GT350 has PLENTY of torque (more than the GT), it just makes it in a different way. You could say "I'm really lazy and I'm used to torque in lower rpms and I've never driven a high performance car so I'd prefer the car to just be the same old bloated big displacement motor where I can pass people on the highway without having the chore of shifting gears."

I don't disagree that it's different. I don't disagree that if you want to LUG the motor, it's not the best option. If I wanted something that moves abruptly at less than 2,000 rpms I'll buy a John Deere.

 

[ANGREY]

So why did Dodge and Chevy mirror the "Original" design then? Simple, cause they are trying to retain the iconic image of that car and Ford missed that boat by a mile. The GT350 doesn't resemble anything other than a new Mustang which resembles nothing.

Bro a 4x wheel drive truck has a purpose other than Baja. There is this thing called Snow. Maybe uve heard of it. But, ur right plenty of ppl drive Raptors and Jeeps that dont live in cold climates so fair enough.

But as far as having low TQ u cant compare a 2020 $60k GT500 to a 2003 Cobra. Not quite apples to apples. Ud have to compare it to the ZL1 and the ZL1 simply out classes it in every way and has character. But main difference being is if someone wanting to go really fast in their 03 Cobra they can with bolt-ons/E85 cause it has a power adder.

I think the GT350 with a Whipple is badass tho. I just wish it came with an Auto option. The guys at Fatfab sure do build some wicked GT350's tho no doubt.

You don't need a Ford Raptor to negotiate snow conditions. That argument is bunk. They sell them because despite anyone ever racing them offroad, it's just a badass truck. Hell, I'd venture that MOST Raptors never see mud and dirt and all at the cost of towing capacity. So the argument "you'll never take it to the track" has little to no weight.

You're comparing MSRP prices today of nearly 20 years ago? I'll play along, the MSRP of a 2003 SVT Cobra at the time was around $40k. Indexed for inflation, that same $40k is now around $71k. Or, let's do reverse, let's use your $60k price tag. Reversed to 2003 equivalent costs that's $33,432.00. And that's using the fictitious 3.5% inflation, the REAL inflation rate between 2003 and 2020 is probably more toward the double digit mark. Bottom line is, a $60k car in 2020 is squarely at or below MSRP for the top dog from SVT in 2003.

And comparing it to a car that has a blower is nonsensical. It's more sensible to compare N/A to N/A. So find another vehicle (of your choice) to compare it. Cause all I'll say is that adding a blower to a GT350 puts it in another stratosphere compared to the ZL1.

Yes, the 03 Cobras were legendary for modability. It goes down in history as one of the top 3 all time "tuner" cars. My point is/was, the GT350 has more torque than every mustang of the past 30 years that DOESN'T have a blower and yet guys still say they're gutless. Again, that's because you can't and shouldn't drive a GT350 at 2k rpm. It's not made for that and not meant to be there. The car will blow the tires off in nearly ever gear IF you're in the proper RPM.

I'll concede that when first driving the GT350 you HAVE to get used to how it wants to be driven. It's not a mash the gas and pass people car. It doesn't respond well to lugging the motor. It does take more work to constantly shift, but hey, that's kinda the point of the driving experience owners signed up for.

As far as styling goes, I'm not sure again, where you get this idea a tribute car HAS to look exactly like or nearly like the object of it's name. Lots of examples of this not being the case. Ford did the retro theme and decided going forward that's not their primary goal. Hats off to Dodge. They've carved a niche market for people who want looks over most everything else. The part you're missing is that the GT350 is a throwback to the PURPOSE of the car, and that was their tribute.

 

[DAVESVT2000]

Well said

 

[03reptile]

Well said

Agreed, and I'm wasting my time trying to make an obvious point!

 

[Cobra Therapy]

The GT350 R was made to destroy that over priced Crapmaro z28,and it did that.The GT350 was liked by all types of people.People that had porsche cars bought them a GT350!The GT350 was built to be an N/A car.The GT350 R was so good that it lost to the Crapmaro zl1 by .38,and the shitty chevy has a blower on it.Then Garbage Motors came out with the zl1,1le because the R was that dam close.More and more people track their cars today.Ford ditched the live axle for an IRS to take the MUSTANG to another level.They know that track racing is where its at.That 1/4 mile shit is a American thing,and not cared about too much outside of the USA.
All fiat dodge and The Gigantic Mistake do is copy FORD.FORD did the old school styling,then the others copied that.Garbage Motors had no N/A answer to the GT350.The GT350 R is the N/A king of the track,and the new GT500 is the supercharged king of the track.

 

[Tob]

Ford had an opportunity to slip the 5.8L engine into the GT350 in 2015 and they chose otherwise.

Ouch.

 

[Cobra Therapy]

Ford had an opportunity to slip the 5.8L engine into the GT350 in 2015 and they chose otherwise.

Ouch.

yea,well they can make up for it by putting it in a new BOSS 351!

 

[Tob]

Party's over. Gonna be hybrid BS and electrification from here on out when it comes to developing something new in the Mustang world.