Procharger F1C Cog System too much for a MMR 900

[91svtcoupe]

UPDATE: INSTALL PICTURES ON PAGE 3 (8/27/2012)


Im looking at upgrading my T Top car to a F1 Procharger. Id like to step up to a F1A but I'm looking at a F1c Cog Set up right now. My current combo is this:

MMR short Block 900
Stage 3 Ported B Heads
Stock intake
Stage 3 Crowler Blower Cams
60lb injectors
255 intake pump and 255 Inline pump
Cosmetic Head Gaskets
ARP Studs
P1SC 3 Core Innercooler
3.9 Upper pulley and 10% O.D Inv West (max impeller speed is just around the corner)

Will my short block handle the F1C okay? Im not looking to max out the F1C just want to get more out of my combo

I made 435rwhp on a Mustang Dyno at 10lbs of boost at 6800 rpm, I don't want to fool with changing the pulley set up, It will only get me about 30 more hp probably and then I'm maxed out on impeller speed, Next up would be do a D1 Conversion but I'm thinking why not go big or go home?

the car pulls good now but I think I'm really out of boost and I want to see more like 600 to the tires

Another concern is I need to move the radiator? Any suggestions?

Couple Vids

 

[MLS]

The mmr shortblock should be good for 900 hp, if you are only aiming for 600 you shouldn't have any problems.

 

[itSSlow98]

If your only looking for around 600 id go D1 they have made over 700 plenty of times.

 

[encasedmetal]

The mmr shortblock should be good for 900 hp, if you are only aiming for 600 you shouldn't have any problems.

that's to the flywheel not the ground that the 900 is for.

 

[AntiHeightPunk]

600rwhp = d1sc

 

[encasedmetal]

OP- it would be a waste of time for you to undertake this process. looking at your engine bay pics you're going to have to move your coil packs, radiator, coolant tank, coolant crossover tube, and powersteering resevior. 600 hp is not what the f1c is made for. I think if you wanted to do the project f1a is as big as you can go but you're gonna have to keep the boost down and that means tiny outer crank pulley and large blower pulley. for instance I use a 8" outer crank pulley and 4" blower pulley on my f1a and make 22.5 psi. You'll also have to redo your fuel system to keep up.

 

[DirtyDan10]

600 is a tease for a short block oke: sick lookin btw :rockon:

 

[mtrsprt]

Your making about 150rwhp less than you should be right now....

4V mill with cams, and fuel, and a P1......... You should be at LEAST 550rwhp on a load bearing dyno.......with a setup like yours.......

 

[91svtcoupe]

OP- it would be a waste of time for you to undertake this process. looking at your engine bay pics you're going to have to move your coil packs, radiator, coolant tank, coolant crossover tube, and powersteering resevior. 600 hp is not what the f1c is made for. I think if you wanted to do the project f1a is as big as you can go but you're gonna have to keep the boost down and that means tiny outer crank pulley and large blower pulley. for instance I use a 8" outer crank pulley and 4" blower pulley on my f1a and make 22.5 psi. You'll also have to redo your fuel system to keep up.

Agreed, there is a lot of stuff that is going to have to be moved around.

1) Coil Packs I've been wanting do the COP conversion for a much cleaner look. I can pick up a set of Cam Covers have them painted and that would take care of the coil packs.

2) Radiator I'm thinking that I can maybe fit one of the small ford racing alum radiators in, if not maybe get a radiator that is short and lean it forward enough to get me the room

3) Coolant tank I think I will just get a smaller one and remove my large coolant tank

4) Cross over tube, I have a stock one laying around I think I can modify it and make it work.

5) I thought the power steering res would say in the same location?

6) 600hp is what Id be okay with but in reality I'd love to have 750

7) The set up I'm looking at is set up for 17lbs right now, Its a Cog System, My biggest concern here is will the lower pulley bolt up to my 10% OD innvoative west balancer?

8) you don't think my fuel system will work? I know Id be close on 60lb injectors, but the pumps should be good for 600-700 wouldn't you think? Im running an 8 feed and a 6 return.

I know you know a lot and you helped me on my cams. So I'm listening, If I'm okay with making modification you still think its a bad choice?

The set up:

600 is a tease for a short block oke: sick lookin btw :rockon:

Well I'd Like to go for 700 lol

Your making about 150rwhp less than you should be right now....

4V mill with cams, and fuel, and a P1......... You should be at LEAST 550rwhp on a load bearing dyno.......with a setup like yours.......

Well I thought so also? But we can only figure that the engine is going to like boost.

With my current pulley set up we were figuring on seeing 14lbs of boost? But I can only guess (key word is guess)that the Ported heads, Big Cams, Mac Long Tubes and full 3" Exhaust is moving the air through efficiently?

 

[AntiHeightPunk]

you are low on power after looking at your mod list

 

[mtrsprt]

Well I thought so also? But we can only figure that the engine is going to like boost.

With my current pulley set up we were figuring on seeing 14lbs of boost? But I can only guess (key word is guess)that the Ported heads, Big Cams, Mac Long Tubes and full 3" Exhaust is moving the air through efficiently?

So your jumping from 10psi to 14psi, but yet to have it dynoed?

The difference between 4 psi on a well breathing 4V could be as much as 80-100rwhp.

The P1 should move enough air to support about 525rwhp through a 4V on a Mustang dyno. Give or take 5%

 

[91svtcoupe]

So your jumping from 10psi to 14psi, but yet to have it dynoed?

The difference between 4 psi on a well breathing 4V could be as much as 80-100rwhp.

The P1 should move enough air to support about 525rwhp through a 4V on a Mustang dyno. Give or take 5%

No it is set up right now with a 10 % OD innovative west balancer and a 3.4 supercharger pulley, I was expecting to see 14lbs of boost on the dyno.

But on the dyno we only saw 10lbs OF Boost at 6800 rpm

at 6krpm we only saw 8 lbs of boost

So the boost was lower than expected and so were the numbers.

 

[AntiHeightPunk]

Intercooler restriction? Get a new tuner please....I don't understand why your tuner would send that product out...if 2+2=1 something isn't right.

 

[encasedmetal]

Agreed, there is a lot of stuff that is going to have to be moved around.

1) Coil Packs I've been wanting do the COP conversion for a much cleaner look. I can pick up a set of Cam Covers have them painted and that would take care of the coil packs.

2) Radiator I'm thinking that I can maybe fit one of the small ford racing alum radiators in, if not maybe get a radiator that is short and lean it forward enough to get me the room I moved my radiator into the core support area in the front which is about 2" forward of the stock position. however the fan makes it still a tight sqeeze.

3) Coolant tank I think I will just get a smaller one and remove my large coolant tank I use a GT500 coolant tank, but have seen others use a tube style as well.

4) Cross over tube, I have a stock one laying around I think I can modify it and make it work. If I had it to do over again I would definately plumb my coolant lines like modularspeed on this forum. fittings and braided lines vs a modified coolant crossover tube will save you alot of time, error, and routing options.

5) I thought the power steering res would say in the same location? you will have to make a bracket for it to fit.

6) 600hp is what Id be okay with but in reality I'd love to have 750

7) The set up I'm looking at is set up for 17lbs right now, Its a Cog System, My biggest concern here is will the lower pulley bolt up to my 10% OD innvoative west balancer? IW balancer will not work. You have to get an ATI - I ordered mine and they made it.

8) you don't think my fuel system will work? I know Id be close on 60lb injectors, but the pumps should be good for 600-700 wouldn't you think? Im running an 8 feed and a 6 return. your pumps are inadequate for what you're going for. If I have a large grocery list, I don't try to fit it all in a basket- I grab a cart. get what I'm saying?

I know you know a lot and you helped me on my cams. So I'm listening, If I'm okay with making modification you still think its a bad choice? I don't think it's a bad choice if you want to modify stuff in order to fit. that being said though I think you car is really nice.

do what you want and I will sure be of assistance in any way I can.

 

[JP_Stang]

I don't think you will have the pump to support your goal. You are going to have to upgrade those pumps. Truth of the matter is, having them inline with eachother really isn't doing much for you. Your not going to flow hardly any more than you would with one, your just not going to lose pressure as easy. Put those two pumps in parrallel and you would be good.

 

[91svtcoupe]

Intercooler restriction? Get a new tuner please....I don't understand why your tuner would send that product out...if 2+2=1 something isn't right.

Well Maybe it wasn't the turner? I don't know. I have the sheets I will try and scan them in later, Shows air fuel, boost at rpm etc. I don't know? Im just thinking and so was everyone else when I built it. The P1SC is going to be too small.

I have the 3 core innercooler? I plumbed a little different piping but I don't see it hurting it.

do what you want and I will sure be of assistance in any way I can.

I appreciate it, Its a lot to take on I know and more than likely I'm going to spend more money than I realize in the long run. But I want it to make some power and I hate that right now its not producing it.

on a side note the Sullivan want work with our heads correct? (B Heads)

 

[encasedmetal]

Well Maybe it wasn't the turner? I don't know. I have the sheets I will try and scan them in later, Shows air fuel, boost at rpm etc. I don't know? Im just thinking and so was everyone else when I built it. The P1SC is going to be too small.

I have the 3 core innercooler? I plumbed a little different piping but I don't see it hurting it.



I appreciate it, Its a lot to take on I know and more than likely I'm going to spend more money than I realize in the long run. But I want it to make some power and I hate that right now its not producing it.

on a side note the Sullivan want work with our heads correct? (B Heads)

no the sullivan will not work nor do you want one. did you see all of my above posts in bold in response to your other questions?

 

[91svtcoupe]

no the sullivan will not work nor do you want one. did you see all of my above posts in bold in response to your other questions?

I did and thanks....

Well my only thing was I was looking at intake piping. If the F1 will rotate down like my P1 than maybe I can get by with my current set up. The intake piping coming with the kit is for a Sullivan set up. I think that the blower should rotate correct? Ive never seen one that didn't but Ive never owned a F1 either.

My biggest concern will be the radiator part. I think I can make it work, but it will take some measuring, etc etc. but I can't really do that until I get the blower mounted. Not many that I can find have a F1 4V in a Fox Body.

 

[91svtcoupe]

I don't think you will have the pump to support your goal. You are going to have to upgrade those pumps. Truth of the matter is, having them inline with eachother really isn't doing much for you. Your not going to flow hardly any more than you would with one, your just not going to lose pressure as easy. Put those two pumps in parrallel and you would be good.

I agree and really that shouldn't be too much of a big deal. I will have some things to purchase but over all it could be done pretty simple.

 

[encasedmetal]

I did and thanks....

Well my only thing was I was looking at intake piping. If the F1 will rotate down like my P1 than maybe I can get by with my current set up. The intake piping coming with the kit is for a Sullivan set up. I think that the blower should rotate correct? Ive never seen one that didn't but Ive never owned a F1 either.

My biggest concern will be the radiator part. I think I can make it work, but it will take some measuring, etc etc. but I can't really do that until I get the blower mounted. Not many that I can find have a F1 4V in a Fox Body.

Helomech has a F1c or a F2m 4v in his fox body- can't remember which. so ask him about dimensions there. the f1 blowers do rotate like the others- you just have to make sure that you reclock the oil slinger gear so that it is in the bottom of the blower case once mounted. F1a and F1c outlets are 3" ID but I suggest 3.5" which I have talked to procharger about and it'll work just fine. I use 3" from blower to IC, and 3.5" from IC to TB.