only 180 mph
- Thread starter Cobra Therapy
- Start date
The only metrics you provided that show the 13/14 is better than the 20's, is top speed that requires 3+miles to achieve and not having a gas guzzler tax. I never disputed the top speed, I merely stated it's a poor measure of performance because it takes 3 miles to achieve. If you honestly think the 2020 500 doesn't outperform the 13/14's in every other aspect you're delusional
Let's look @ the facts
2013 gt500
0-60= 3.5
1/4= 11.8
VIR lighting lap 3:00:6
2020 gt500
0-60=3.3
1/4= 10.7
VIR lightning lap 2:44:6
This thread needs Motrin
Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com
Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com
Well, and a simple tune to unlock the limiter would grant it a higher top speed than the 13/14 if that is someone's greatest concern
One of the issues I could see with that is the amount of airflow into the engine bay on the '20 GT500 (a huge increase over the GT350 for example) that would likely be fine with the rain tray removed but with it in place there is almost nowhere for it to escape. The hood pins added to the '20 no doubt helped with hood lift but at 200mph and the rain tray there to hinder airflow from exiting through the hood I suspect there'd be a bit of unwanted lift at the front end of the car. That said, I can't wait to see what a stock '20 GT500 could do with the limiter removed and the same amount of space Ford gave the '13/'14 to get up to speed...
Those numbers are a bit misleading. 11.8 was on un-prepped asphalt while 10.7 was a fully prepped surface with rollout. Motor Trend has rigorous testing standards so 11.5 for the 13-14 cars is more realistic and 11.3 for the 20+ cars. Huge MPH difference between the two 132 vs 126. Plus you're comparing a CFTP car with the wing and alignment set on kill with fresh R-comp tires for the lap times.
A better apples to apples comparison would be the base 2020 car. The difference is probably closer to 8-10 seconds per lap which is still colossal.
The 13-14 cars were raw in all the right ways. The 20+ cars are nipping Ferrari and Porsche heels for a fraction of the cost.
And I hated the solid rear because of the weird high speed twitchiness in the ass-end when going over bumps or dips in the road (or airstrip).
They're very different vehicles released over 7 years apart. I personally love them both, but at the end of the day the 20+ cars are simply better. And anything over 180 on a deserted road in Mexico is just f'ing scary, trust me on that.
100% agree with this. I haven't driven a 20/21, but I'm looking forward to the IRS and more "settled" feel.
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I see a trend here among 2020 owners:
On another site, a 2020 owner stated " 0 to 60 " was a " poor measure of performance ".
You state " top speed " is a " poor measure of performance ".
So if I mention MPG, you're apt to state that also is a " poor measure of performance "
How about price,............as an aspect ??
Lol
Top speed is a poor measure of performance based on how long it takes to achieve it. If it reached top speed in a mile that's a different story, because they do mile high speed runs. 0-60 is relevant for drag times, mile runs and road racing. Mpg is a measure of fuel economy and not performance. The mpg and top speed are a result of the horrible 3.31 gears in that car, that don't make it driver friendly on the street. And before you try to accuse me of being bias, I've owned multiple 13/14's and now own the 2020. Do you own a 2020 to make a comparison?
Price wise a 2013 topped out @$70kish, a base 20 starts @$73kish, which isn't a huge jump over 6 years
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The '13/'14 GT500's were easily the best S197 chassis cars, period. But the '20 GT500 is in another league. And let's leave gas mileage as any sort of metric at the curb. With big power comes fuel consumption and if fuel economy is that important to you I'd suggest looking at an import or maybe even electric.
Brakes
No comparison. The radial mount six pot fronts on the '20 are a major improvement over those used in '13/'14 as are the rotors. Same goes for the rear.
Suspension
The '13/'14 electronic, 2 position Bilsteins were a step above previous dampers used in the S197 chassis but they were far from intelligent and more like an on/off switch. The mag dampers on the '20 GT500 are yet another major improvement over the older GT500. Much wider range and quicker to react.
The '20 has another advantage with its aluminum knuckle versus the previous car's iron spindle, extending the virtual ball joint center outboard of it's physical location. Also provides the radial mount location for the massive brakes. Out back, the IRS provides the expected gains in ride quality - especially on uneven surfaces. Suprising to solid axle only fans, the IRS in the 500 has proven to be pretty darn robust and handles shock loading very well.
Engine
I will always be a huge fan of the 5.8L engine in the '13/'14. The TR6060 was ready for duty behind it but shift quality suffered quite a bit at higher rpm's. The 5.2 in the newer car is on par, as it should be with some nice, modern advancements. I'm thankful for stainless short tube exhaust manifolds over the cast iron logs on the '13/'14 as well. The DCT...if quick shifting consistency is important to you the newer car does it with ease. The added weight sucks but at least the CG is low and it is located in the middle of the chassis.
Thermal management improvements are next level on the '20 as well. Having things like a removable rain tray under the 6sq/ft hood vent are right up an enthusiasts alley.
Aero
With added wickers, the giant hood vent, and either the swing spoiler or the GT4 inspired wing, this is where the '20 and the '13/'14 deviate. With a lot less aero, the '13/'14 simply doesn't have the same level of drag - or downforce. Then again, you don't have to have those items on a '20 but the speed limiter will stop a stock car from challenging the '13/'14 on a certain track on the other side of the world.
Interior/Electronics
Looks are subjective so I can see someone favoring anything old school. But if you want the more modern of the two the '20 clearly takes the cake here too.
Weight
Yes Virginia, the S550 GT500 is a phat pig. It can dance but it is still excessively obese. The older chassis wins out in this category.
Performance
Data-wise, the '20 wins in just about every category. The alleged 200mph speed of the '13/'14 was nice for Ford to advertise and to print on sales brochures but not a real world metric that anyone will use at a roadcourse or at a dragstrip. And with respect to those two categories there really is no comparison as to which car brings home the bacon - as it should be with some 6 years to improve.
Aesthetics
Purely subjective. Opinions run the gamut, as they well should.
And finally, Cost
The '13/'14 is a bargain. The '20 approaches the ridiculous (especially when its an optioned out CFTP car) but not in the context of some of the "supercars" it goes toe to toe with. And to be fair, everything is getting ridiculous, as we approach the end an era.
Personally, I like both cars. I always find a car I liked better than something I had previous and the '20 GT500 is no different. Ford is going to have to really shake things up somehow to leap over and above the '20.
Brakes
No comparison. The radial mount six pot fronts on the '20 are a major improvement over those used in '13/'14 as are the rotors. Same goes for the rear.
Suspension
The '13/'14 electronic, 2 position Bilsteins were a step above previous dampers used in the S197 chassis but they were far from intelligent and more like an on/off switch. The mag dampers on the '20 GT500 are yet another major improvement over the older GT500. Much wider range and quicker to react.
The '20 has another advantage with its aluminum knuckle versus the previous car's iron spindle, extending the virtual ball joint center outboard of it's physical location. Also provides the radial mount location for the massive brakes. Out back, the IRS provides the expected gains in ride quality - especially on uneven surfaces. Suprising to solid axle only fans, the IRS in the 500 has proven to be pretty darn robust and handles shock loading very well.
Engine
I will always be a huge fan of the 5.8L engine in the '13/'14. The TR6060 was ready for duty behind it but shift quality suffered quite a bit at higher rpm's. The 5.2 in the newer car is on par, as it should be with some nice, modern advancements. I'm thankful for stainless short tube exhaust manifolds over the cast iron logs on the '13/'14 as well. The DCT...if quick shifting consistency is important to you the newer car does it with ease. The added weight sucks but at least the CG is low and it is located in the middle of the chassis.
Thermal management improvements are next level on the '20 as well. Having things like a removable rain tray under the 6sq/ft hood vent are right up an enthusiasts alley.
Aero
With added wickers, the giant hood vent, and either the swing spoiler or the GT4 inspired wing, this is where the '20 and the '13/'14 deviate. With a lot less aero, the '13/'14 simply doesn't have the same level of drag - or downforce. Then again, you don't have to have those items on a '20 but the speed limiter will stop a stock car from challenging the '13/'14 on a certain track on the other side of the world.
Interior/Electronics
Looks are subjective so I can see someone favoring anything old school. But if you want the more modern of the two the '20 clearly takes the cake here too.
Weight
Yes Virginia, the S550 GT500 is a phat pig. It can dance but it is still excessively obese. The older chassis wins out in this category.
Performance
Data-wise, the '20 wins in just about every category. The alleged 200mph speed of the '13/'14 was nice for Ford to advertise and to print on sales brochures but not a real world metric that anyone will use at a roadcourse or at a dragstrip. And with respect to those two categories there really is no comparison as to which car brings home the bacon - as it should be with some 6 years to improve.
Aesthetics
Purely subjective. Opinions run the gamut, as they well should.
And finally, Cost
The '13/'14 is a bargain. The '20 approaches the ridiculous (especially when its an optioned out CFTP car) but not in the context of some of the "supercars" it goes toe to toe with. And to be fair, everything is getting ridiculous, as we approach the end an era.
Personally, I like both cars. I always find a car I liked better than something I had previous and the '20 GT500 is no different. Ford is going to have to really shake things up somehow to leap over and above the '20.
As usual very well said
But 200 mph top speed
Eyeroll.
Well you certainly can't see it as anything other than an impressive accomplishment in the 2013 time frame. The fact that Ford had the balls to go after it at all (200 mph goal) says a lot. I always liked the fact that Ford spent quite a bit of time at the Ring during development as well. Jamal and Co. did a heck of a job given what they had to work with.
And I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when the arguments were laid down for the engine that was to power the upcoming GT350. The 5.8 was ready to go and would have made the 2015 and later GT350 an instant beast without having to wait all the way until 2020 for the next GT500 iteration. Jamal stated a while back that the TR6060 was never even considered for the GT350. If that was literally the case, then there probably was no argument made for the 5.8 to live on either. I know Jamal also said he always wanted to do a FPC engine but was it that simple and over that quick in terms of any discussion?
Regardless, the '13/'14 was at the top of the culmination of a number of years of various chassis Mustangs that came before it that had manual transmissions and solid axles. We waited a long time for that car and I think Ford delivered what many wanted. The '20-'22 S550 GT500 is kind of an anomaly, or an in between. It is likely to be the only Mustang ever to use a DCT and may very well be the last mega power, ICE only, Mustang as well. The sad thing is I have a feeling the S650 program has already distanced itself from the type of powerplants we've been used to for quite some time now. The GT500 and the Mach1 will carry the banner for a couple years and then its a whole new ballgame.
And I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when the arguments were laid down for the engine that was to power the upcoming GT350. The 5.8 was ready to go and would have made the 2015 and later GT350 an instant beast without having to wait all the way until 2020 for the next GT500 iteration. Jamal stated a while back that the TR6060 was never even considered for the GT350. If that was literally the case, then there probably was no argument made for the 5.8 to live on either. I know Jamal also said he always wanted to do a FPC engine but was it that simple and over that quick in terms of any discussion?
Regardless, the '13/'14 was at the top of the culmination of a number of years of various chassis Mustangs that came before it that had manual transmissions and solid axles. We waited a long time for that car and I think Ford delivered what many wanted. The '20-'22 S550 GT500 is kind of an anomaly, or an in between. It is likely to be the only Mustang ever to use a DCT and may very well be the last mega power, ICE only, Mustang as well. The sad thing is I have a feeling the S650 program has already distanced itself from the type of powerplants we've been used to for quite some time now. The GT500 and the Mach1 will carry the banner for a couple years and then its a whole new ballgame.
I have owned most of the late model Shelby variants and there is a reason why the 13 GT500 stays in my stable while I have moved a 2017 GT350 and a 2013 Viper out. The driving emotions it creates with the low end torque, manual trans and live axle simply can not be duplicated. Simply speaking, it is more fun than the new car. That being said, to stay relevant and to feel a sense of competitive edge on the road course, we all have to move towards the latest technology. The 13 car was the benchmark when it came out. The 20 car is an evolution to keep up with the current motorsport trends.
Sluggish gears if you ask me. Most go 3.73 or 410. Those that fear gear never even go fast anyway.
I went the 3.73 route when I had mine, it greatly improved drivability. The stock gears weren't great for normal driving, felt like I needed to slip the clutch to get it going from a stop light.
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