On3 twin turbo install, some thoughts, and PICS.

[Nuar]

You mention "shittiness" of the parts... now, would you say that comes into play when installing the kit only, or will they bite you in the ass in the long run?
Just curiosity speaking through me. The kit is a performer for sure, but at the same time I don't give a damn how it performs if you need to fix sh*t every few months, you know what I mean?

What's your forecast on the car's reliability with this kit installed and the experience you now have?

 

[nosscort]

I can't believe you didn't wrap any pipes.. that would've been on the very top of the must do list.

 

[gimmie11s]

You mention "shittiness" of the parts... now, would you say that comes into play when installing the kit only, or will they bite you in the ass in the long run?
Just curiosity speaking through me. The kit is a performer for sure, but at the same time I don't give a damn how it performs if you need to fix sh*t every few months, you know what I mean?

What's your forecast on the car's reliability with this kit installed and the experience you now have?

The parts that are not easily replaceable will be fine I.e. Hot parts and the entire cold side. They will likely never fail.

I do have a set of Tial MVRs on standby if need be.

As far as reliability, I don't expect this car to give 30 mpg and last 100k at 10+ psi.

Any power adder will largely reduce the reliability of your stock long block.

I can't believe you didn't wrap any pipes.. that would've been on the very top of the must do list.

Look again. Everything thing is wrapped except for wastegate dump tubes.

I will eventually add turbo blankets as well.

 

[Angry50]

would you say it was worth the money and trouble or do you think you should have gone a different way?

 

[Bgoins]

For someone like me that doesn't have the time or the skills, I wonder if it'd be worth it to pay a shop $3k or so to install it. I think with the price of the kit it would still undercut a Hellion kit installed by a few thousand.

 

[gimmie11s]

would you say it was worth the money and trouble or do you think you should have gone a different way?

Its a bargain vs. its direct competition being hellion, Armageddon, etc etc.

You have to look at it this way. Even if you upgraded turbos and wastegates (and chose the "delete turbos" option at your initial purchase), you would still be in the entire kit for only $5200.

That is an outstanding deal and at that point, you'd have a product that compares extremely favorably to everything else out there IMO.

I actually like the turbos and will run them.

For someone like me that doesn't have the time or the skills, I wonder if it'd be worth it to pay a shop $3k or so to install it. I think with the price of the kit it would still undercut a Hellion kit installed by a few thousand.

Is that the going rate to install this kit? lol. It was a pain in my ass but not a $3k pain thats for sure. i'd do it for a complete stranger for less than a third of that price.

See my response above to Angry50... yes.. you would still come in cheaper than hellion. I believe the hellion kit is $7895 for the tuner.

 

[MRSUPRA]

Great write-up.. I'm still trying to decide on a turbo kit too. I'm leaning towards the EDP kit because of the simplicity and fairly low cost. However, I agree with you on not wanting to lose the sway bar, and disliking the sound of open waste gates.

Speaking of sound, did your car get much quieter going from the Paxton to the turbos? I don't like the attention from a loud exhaust either.

 

[Bgoins]

Is that the going rate to install this kit? lol. It was a pain in my ass but not a $3k pain thats for sure. i'd do it for a complete stranger for less than a third of that price.

See my response above to Angry50... yes.. you would still come in cheaper than hellion. I believe the hellion kit is $7895 for the tuner.

That $3k was a shot in the dark. I figured if about $1k for a supercharger install then $1500 for a straightforward twin turbo install and double that with all the fab work and "custom" touches you mentioned. I'd be curious if anyone has any real life costs of this kit being installed by a reputable shop.

 

[gimmie11s]

Great write-up.. I'm still trying to decide on a turbo kit too. I'm leaning towards the EDP kit because of the simplicity and fairly low cost. However, I agree with you on not wanting to lose the sway bar, and disliking the sound of open waste gates.

Speaking of sound, did your car get much quieter going from the Paxton to the turbos? I don't like the attention from a loud exhaust either.

we are on the same page there. The never ending BOV activity from the Paxton setup was a large part of my decision to go back to turbo.

The car is in fact quieter now with the turbos. I absolutely love it. Exhaust set up is in my sig. It is very docile at idle... i'll get some clips uploaded.

I had dumped wastegates for years when i had DSMs and i am very much over that stage.

That $3k was a shot in the dark. I figured if about $1k for a supercharger install then $1500 for a straightforward twin turbo install and double that with all the fab work and "custom" touches you mentioned. I'd be curious if anyone has any real life costs of this kit being installed by a reputable shop.

Yeah $3k is probably way high. I have to imagine a reputable shop would charge in the $1500 range for this kit as well.

Do some research on Hellion... they have their own issues at install and fitament as well. NOTHING like on3..... but some issues nonetheless.

 

[96lasersvt]

Do you think if you went with better wg's while installing that would have fixed some of the fitment issues? Im torn between this kit and a vortech kit with the jt-b. I want something thats going to be reliable and not having to work on every so often.

 

[gimmie11s]

Do you think if you went with better wg's while installing that would have fixed some of the fitment issues? Im torn between this kit and a vortech kit with the jt-b. I want something thats going to be reliable and not having to work on every so often.

I have a pair of Tial gates in boxes on stand by if need be. They do not fit better but the clamps are of much higher quality.

Once the turbo kit gets sorted out it won't be simething you have to mess with every day.

Hell... I worked on my car every weekend anyway wih the Paxton trying to get it right. Eventually it got sorted out and car ran hard but it took 6 months.

 

[T's03GT]

I have personally saw the On3 gates holding well at 20psi.

 

[kona 199]

That $3k was a shot in the dark. I figured if about $1k for a supercharger install then $1500 for a straightforward twin turbo install and double that with all the fab work and "custom" touches you mentioned. I'd be curious if anyone has any real life costs of this kit being installed by a reputable shop.

i dont know of a reputable speed shop that will do it.u say ON 3 PER. turbo kit and they say no thanks.

 

[Dizzyscure1]

i dont know of a reputable speed shop that will do it.u say ON 3 PER. turbo kit and they say no thanks.

Triangle Speed Shop will do it, Not sure on the install cost though.

 

[gimmie11s]

Yeah I've seen several shops install them.

For a fully equipped shop the install is s non issue.

For the average garage guy... It can be quite a project.

 

[2003mach1]

The last on3 kit I installed for a customer ended up costing them $1200. This was a single kit on a fox body. Not one single piece fit right and the header flanges were warped. I had to modify or redo every part of it. I even had to cut the down pipe in the middle and clock it so it would fit. But it still ended up costing less than the next cheapest kit.

 

[JTS_7]

Ran into all the issues you had and more. But if you call up Chad at on3 or one of his representatives he will tell you maybe you don't know what you're doing and or he has never heard of such a thing with his kits.( yet if u search the forum quite a few issues are common) Lame ass company that has so much potential to be better. Although I'm sure all their parts sell like hot cakes, but I bet he would sell more if he adjusted the errors in his kit and provided better customer service.

I ran into the same issue with the wastegates. Mine spun. I actually had a new flange welded on my drivers side because it came warped. Grinding Down the v band clamp face only did so much. Even then I felt it was only clamping around the sides of the gate and flange, leaving a small gap between the mating surface of the bottom of wastgate and flange mating surface.

If u look at a Tial it actually fills up all the space inside the clamp and pushes it down mating it to the flange for a proper seal. I ended up buying genuine Tial clamps to use with the on3 gates because the clamp was shorter inside, which pushed it down sealing. Properly.

My driverside downpipe was fabricated incorrectly. The cut out side and the smashed side were flipped from
How they are supposed to be. Which I had to take and have redone. Even then the downpipe a did not mate up properly to my x pipe, then they said I needed to use their x pipe. So I said what the hell bought it, and same shit. LOL

The piping for the Intercooler was so wrong it wasn't even funny. Like off, way off not even close no matter how you rigged the pipes. Also had the pipes in my kit redone to be all one piece.

My dump tubes didn't mate up to the wastegate properly, required a torch and bending.

The best part about the kit to me was the manifold flange. I have a video somewhere, the holes were 1/4" off of the holes on the STOCK OEM FACTORY gasket. Lmao when I provided them with the video, they ceased all communication via email and calls. Ended up having to enlarge the holes so I could fit them on.


In the end. Expect shitty and shady customer service ( which you can read reviews about all over). Cross your fingers you get a properly fabricated kit (they do exist and so do shitty ones what do you expect from the Chinese). My kit has about 4k miles on it and hasn't skipped a beat, the loud pedal
is crazy fun.. Like many others have said before the install is a PITA and frustrating at times (when a small task turns into a huge one by no fault of your own).


Only thing I don't agree with is the manifolds being "stout". Sure the flanges are. The actual piping is like every other manifold I have ever seen from China thin as hell. I think I've seen two members end up having cracked manifolds, not sure how many don't though, mine are fine.

 

[gimmie11s]

Ran into all the issues you had and more. But if you call up Chad at on3 or one of his representatives he will tell you maybe you don't know what you're doing and or he has never heard of such a thing with his kits.( yet if u search the forum quite a few issues are common) Lame ass company that has so much potential to be better. Although I'm sure all their parts sell like hot cakes, but I bet he would sell more if he adjusted the errors in his kit and provided better customer service.

I ran into the same issue with the wastegates. Mine spun. I actually had a new flange welded on my drivers side because it came warped. Grinding Down the v band clamp face only did so much. Even then I felt it was only clamping around the sides of the gate and flange, leaving a small gap between the mating surface of the bottom of wastgate and flange mating surface.

If u look at a Tial it actually fills up all the space inside the clamp and pushes it down mating it to the flange for a proper seal. I ended up buying genuine Tial clamps to use with the on3 gates because the clamp was shorter inside, which pushed it down sealing. Properly.

My driverside downpipe was fabricated incorrectly. The cut out side and the smashed side were flipped from
How they are supposed to be. Which I had to take and have redone. Even then the downpipe a did not mate up properly to my x pipe, then they said I needed to use their x pipe. So I said what the hell bought it, and same shit. LOL

The piping for the Intercooler was so wrong it wasn't even funny. Like off, way off not even close no matter how you rigged the pipes. Also had the pipes in my kit redone to be all one piece.

My dump tubes didn't mate up to the wastegate properly, required a torch and bending.

The best part about the kit to me was the manifold flange. I have a video somewhere, the holes were 1/4" off of the holes on the STOCK OEM FACTORY gasket. Lmao when I provided them with the video, they ceased all communication via email and calls. Ended up having to enlarge the holes so I could fit them on.


In the end. Expect shitty and shady customer service ( which you can read reviews about all over). Cross your fingers you get a properly fabricated kit (they do exist and so do shitty ones what do you expect from the Chinese). My kit has about 4k miles on it and hasn't skipped a beat, the loud pedal
is crazy fun.. Like many others have said before the install is a PITA and frustrating at times (when a small task turns into a huge one by no fault of your own).


Only thing I don't agree with is the manifolds being "stout". Sure the flanges are. The actual piping is like every other manifold I have ever seen from China thin as hell. I think I've seen two members end up having cracked manifolds, not sure how many don't though, mine are fine.

I guess I got lucky on the manifolds. The tubing is thick gauge stainless. They are extremely stout. They will likely never fail and are more sturdy than the made in USA DNP turbo manifold I bought for a DSM about 10 years ago.

I didn't call On3 one time during my entire install. Not one time. I figured no point in wasting the time. I actually learned enough from your experience and the others to be fully prepared for what I ran into.

If/when my wastegates fail, I will have to cut off the on3 flanges on the manifolds and weld on the Tial flanges that came with my gates. YOu are exactly right. The tial gates and fire rings are made specifically for their clamps and flanges.

My on3 gates were spinning on the flanges as well but shaving down the clamp faces cured this. Guess I got lucky.

I did not have the issue you did with the drivers side down pipe BUT-- like I said... it took me 2 weekends to get that side lined up properly so I didn't have any exhaust leaks. That said, my steering shaft is too close to the downpipe for my comfort and some vibration comes through the steering wheel. I will eventually take a BFH to it and gain some more clearance.

Im getting close to the end of the tuning process and ill tell you guys........ driving the car around makes EVERYTHING I say above a MUTE point!!

The car is going to absolutely rip and Chris Holmes has the tunes down! Shitty, shitty grin on my face right now. Cant wait!

 

[JTS_7]

Exactly. My advice to anyone considering the kit.....

- Have a general understanding of how turbos work (obviously)
- Have a good amount of tools
- Understand you may or may not have to adjust,grind,fabricate things and or buy small stuff (clamps,bolts etc.)
- Leave yourself quite a bit of time to do the install. It will not go as easy as say a CPR kit.
- Wouldn't be so bad to have a helping hand

Once the kit is on and you have all the bugs worked out, your frustrations will be a thing of the past. My car flat out moves on low boost and a safely calibrated tune, actually thinking of switching to longer gears. My 4th gear is too short and I don't like the idea of putting that much power on 5th gear constantly, then again I'm thinking of going auto anyways.


Good luck Gimme11's Forced motorsports deff knows their stuff and will have your car moving out.

 

[gimmie11s]

^^ your car is such a beast and a big motivator for me with how clean you built it.

How much boost when you trapped 142 (or was it 143?) and how much timing?

Drop gears if you haven't already... I installed 3.27s on mine (another PITA install) but now im good for 140+ on a 28" tire in 4th gear.