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On3 twin turbo install, some thoughts, and PICS.

Discussion in 'Power-Adders' started by gimmie11s, Jul 26, 2015.

  1. gimmie11s

    gimmie11s Handlebar mustaches... PSSHHH! Established Member Established Member

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    So here I will attempt to answer questions on this kit, share some pictures, and document my overall thoughts on the process.

    I'll break up the thread into a couple of sections. QUALITY, FITAMENT/INSTALL, and PERFORMANCE.

    I never dyno'd my Paxton and only had it at the drag strip twice. This thread will eventually turn into a comparison of the two and just keep in mind that I didn't have the Paxton long enough to realize it's full potential. Part of that is because I knew deep down that the centri is less efficient than the turbo and i knew I would eventually switch, because the Paxton needed an 8 rib upgrade to get serious and I didn't feel like changing all the pulleys on the rest of the motor, and lastly because the Paxton sold a little quicker than I anticipated.


    QUALITY

    This kit is made in China. I could just end it there, but truthfully, there are many parts of this kit that have impressive quality and others that certainly do not.

    The headers and header flanges are extremely beefy. I do not foresee any cracking issues as I chose to not wrap the headers and they are constructed with heavy gauge steel.

    The turbos are ball bearing and not bad. Not great, but not bad. I really hate the dull chrome look of the compressor covers and will eventually have them powder coated black if they last. There are no real visible casting flaws or obvious issues I could see from simple visual inspection.

    The wastegates and BOV are not bad. The quality control in their construction SUCKS as the flange thicknesses of my two gates was completely different which led to sealing issues and exhaust leaks. Hell they probably were made in different plants. See pics. The rubber used for the diaphrams is quality and the aluminum bodies and stainless valves appear to be of high quality as well. Wastegate clamps were completely different on each gate. The stainless ones needed lots of fab work to get to seal properly. Awful.

    Intercooler is meh. Its a large unit and 3.5" thick. Quality is sub par and NOT on the same level as a nice sheet metal end tanked garret unit. The welds, however, are nice. Cold side piping is nice.

    Hardware is junk. Metal is of low quality and bolts strip easily. Upgraded nuts and bolts are highly recommended. Hoses are not bad. Drains are actually made in USA. Feed lines are fine. T bold clamps on cold side are ok. I don't see any issue with them. V band 3" exhaust clamps are ok as well. Not great.. but they'll work.



    INSTALL

    This kit is NOT for a first timer power adder installer lol. I had the Paxton installed in a weekend and could do it again in less than a day easy.

    This kit, however, kicked my ass for a few weeks. I was only able to work on it 6-7 hours per weekend though. I'd say my total time invested so far is 40-45 hours. I am still chasing down small issues but was able to take it for a spin around the block today.

    The kit does not come with instructions. It comes with an "install guide" which is more of a "thoughts and the way I like to do it" kind of guide from Chad the owner of On3.

    That said, I pieced together my own instructions. I printed out the instructions from the Armageddon kit and also watched a few videos on Coyote header swaps.

    If you've installed turbos before, there are no surprises here. The only REAL issue with this kit and this model mustang is SPACE! No space.

    Specific FITAMENT issues:

    The overall fit of the kit gets a C-. Some of this is due to the poor quality control I alluded to with the wastegates and some of it MUST be his jigs are off in China when they are producing these kits. I had to use a 12 ton shop press to flatten a spot on the pass side wastegate dump tube because it interfered with the exhaust housing of the turbo.

    The driver side took me 2 weekends to get the exhaust leaks sorted out. I had to shave the exhaust housing on the dr side turbo just as others did to get the wastegate clamp to clear. I actually had to shave the clamp itself as well. Once I got this figured out and assembled, the base of the wastegate leaked exhaust like crazy as did the 2nd 3" v band connection at the down pipe. I ended up having to shave the rear most upper header bolt in order to get more space for the down pipe to adjust. Once this was done, the v band clamp bolted down tight and the leaks went away. To get the wastegate leak fixed, I had to shave the mating faces of the v band clamp to allow them to tighten more. Before this, the gate would spin on its base all with the clamp fully tightened down. After my mod it tightened enough to seal up the leak.

    The intercooler mounting brackets are nice pieces, but not long enough lol. I had to weld a section onto the pass side in order to be able to hang the cooler and center it properly. This was easy being I have a welder but ridiculous that it needs done.

    None of the header mounting bolts were correct. I didn't want to mod all of my existing studs and bolts (weld and cut) so I went to the hardware store and bought a new set of the correct bolts.



    PERFORMANCE


    Car is being tuned by Chris Holmes. Fired right up and idles nicely. Was able to take it around the block today and boost builds EXTREMELY fast. It will get 2-3 psi before 3000 rpm. Did not do any full throttle pulls as we are in the baby stages of logging and tuning so this section will get updated once tuning is complete.

    The car has a magnaflow 3" ORX, JPC OTA pipes, and GT500s. It sounds OUTSTANDING!! Very excited. Im 37 and not interested in LOUD-- LOOK AT ME --exhausts any longer. This setup is nice and quiet and perfect for me.

    Being that the exhaust is quiet, the turbos are obvious in their sound when they start to spool. With the anti-surge compressor housings and ball bearings, they sound outstanding. Very, very excited to get this thing tuned and dialed in.

    MORE TO COME!



    UPDATE 8.24.15. This car runs like a scalded ass ape and I could NOT be more happy. For the amount of money invested this kit is a no brainer! The car flies!

    Chris Holmes is highly recommended on the tuning side!!!



    IMG_0332_zpsvubpzb1o.jpg

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    AWFUL

    IMG_0320_zpscfl3semk.jpg

    See any difference?

    IMG_0319_zpsobxnr9e7.jpg

    stamped steel junk chromed clamps. wow

    IMG_0317_zps81ex12mt.jpg

    regular v band style clamps came with this one lol

    IMG_0318_zpstjarybdj.jpg

    Intercooler

    IMG_0290_zpswzkdgtj8.jpg

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    T bolt clamps

    IMG_0434_zpsguahuvqt.jpg


    Turbos

    IMG_0295_zpsj9ydi8ic.jpg

    IMG_0294_zps9ktqofno.jpg


    Wastegate flange on dr side.. needed shaving.

    IMG_0427_zpssl0zrv9i.jpg

    IMG_0444_zpsbhvmbv3f.jpg


    Pass side WG dump tube had to be flattened some via 12 ton shop press

    IMG_0443_zpsk2s25vzp.jpg


    IC bracket mod

    IMG_0337_zpsr5rvucwl.jpg

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    ECU mounting

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    3.5" MAF pipe in latest kits

    IMG_0429_zpswpzjwcid.jpg


    Prepping oil pan for dual drains.

    IMG_0312_zpsjxdzcajz.jpg

    IMG_0316_zps2ut1lj1b.jpg




    how she sits now


    IMG_0423_zpstur4dknn.jpg

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    turbo blankets.

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    Decided to give the front end a facelift before I slammed it back together.

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    pics
















    pics











    pics
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
  2. jp1seattle

    jp1seattle Member Established Member

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    Great read so far. I really hope this doesn't turn into a turbo vs supercharger debate....that shit got old quickly.

    Can't wait to read the rest and follow the progress.
     
  3. myke hunt

    myke hunt Feugo Established Member

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    Highly considering this since it would be $7ish tuned installed and with fuel. You had a Paxton as well so the comparison would be nice to hear as far as power delivery.
     
  4. gimmie11s

    gimmie11s Handlebar mustaches... PSSHHH! Established Member Established Member

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    added more commentary and pics to original post.
     
  5. Krace

    Krace Member Established Member

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    Is this one of the new kits that they "fixed" somethings?

    From the On3 website for the kit....

    "With the most recent revisions to the kit, all kits standard are now including the following:

    3.5″ charge pipe, eliminating the maf upgrade needed ($400 savings on the build)
    Updated tig welding technique and manifold manufacturing process
    Cast intercooler 90 degree elbows, no more cuts welds and simple clean transition of airflow
    Upgraded downpipe bellows to wastegates
    Lengthened intercooler brackets for even more adjustment
    New PCM mounting bracket to relocate out of the engine bay to the front bumper area"
     
  6. Krace

    Krace Member Established Member

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    Also is that the "70mm On 3 ceramic ball bearing turbo" upgrade? If so, you think the 60mm will fit just fine because its smaller? Or??
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2015
  7. Scott8583

    Scott8583 Addicted to Corn! Established Member

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    Wow nice write up! Great pics too!
     
  8. gimmie11s

    gimmie11s Handlebar mustaches... PSSHHH! Established Member Established Member

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    This is the newest revision of the kit, yes. They actually include a spacer for the dr side turbo to sit on which would have eliminated a lot of the shaving I had to do to the turbo and WG clamp. Problem is the WG dump tube and downpipe wouldn't bolt up using the spacer ROFL.

    I have the standard 60mm turbos. They will support 1200 HP and are extremely responsive. More than enough for me.
     
  9. Krace

    Krace Member Established Member

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    Cool ty for the reply, yeah im looking to do the same kit as well. Im just getting some idea what im getting my self into.

    You think that grinding down that much on the turbo will it hold up over time ( after heat and cool cycles) ? I ask this, because it just looks like there is not much left to the wall of the turbo.

    How was the header install? did you drop the K-brace?
     
  10. gimmie11s

    gimmie11s Handlebar mustaches... PSSHHH! Established Member Established Member

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    Header install was actually very easy. No issues at all. I did not drop the k member. I re used the stock manifold steel gaskets.

    Time will tell on the shaved exhaust housing. I don't suspect there will be an issue, but if so, they're cheap to replace.

    I had to do something similar on a DSM years ago and it never cracked after 5+ years of use.
     
  11. DaBigBone

    DaBigBone Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Great post. Can't wait to see more!
     
  12. kona 199

    kona 199 reese 1 Established Member

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    great write -up!!! after the 45 hrs of install do u think this kit is any better than the DEP kit for $5899?
     
  13. Nuar

    Nuar Active Member Established Member

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    Awesome thread! Great read and awesome photos! Thank you for taking the time to do the writeup.
     
  14. Turd Fergusen

    Turd Fergusen Member Established Member

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    Whats done to the Mk7? lol

    Great write up btw
     
  15. Krace

    Krace Member Established Member

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    Ok cool, thanks again for the info! i cant wait to start working on mine. Ive been running the Paxton for 4 years on the new mustangs a 2012 and my new 2014. Its time to change it up a bit.
     
  16. gimmie11s

    gimmie11s Handlebar mustaches... PSSHHH! Established Member Established Member

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    I was really torn over this kit or the EDP. I picked the twins because I wanted to keep my sway bar and am not a fan of dumped wastegates.

    I'm sure the EDP is better quality tho.


    Thanks

    She's 100% bone stock for now! That's the DD commuter. It's an outstanding car... Love getting into it to drive every day.
     
  17. T's03GT

    T's03GT #Team5bro Established Member

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    Awesome thread. I'm still really torn on if I wanna spend the money on this kit next summer or not. I'd be doing the install with some family and friend help, and this would essentially be the first FI install I've done on a Mustang.
     
  18. charba951

    charba951 BOOSTTD Established Member

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    ROFL...that's exactly how my ECU is mounted, zipties and all
     
  19. 5lho

    5lho Active Member Established Member

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    Finally, an honest appraisal of the actual cost of going budget on a turbo kit. Having fiddled my share of turbo cars, both factory and aftermarket, I know if I go cut rate on the front I'll be paying for it in extra work on the back, literally. Not always a big deal but, I am growing less tolerant of this as I age and this is why I went with a Vortech V3. You've done good work for the community here, thank you.
     
  20. gimmie11s

    gimmie11s Handlebar mustaches... PSSHHH! Established Member Established Member

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    If you have the tools available to you necessary then go for it.

    lol. Im going to make a couple brackets and bolt it in.

    I think most who have the kit acknowledge the shittiness of the parts of it that suck. There are some goods parts though as well. Overall i still think you'd be crazy to spend $8k on the Hellion or $12k for the Armageddon. Are they better? Their quality is; without a doublt. But the performance? No--they are not. Cant wait to get mine tuned and dailed in.

    If you have the tools i still say go for it on this kit. You need the skill set required for minor fab work i discuss above, but the rest of the install is like any other TT kit...... header removal, oil pan tap, bumper removal, cut hands, lots of sweat, lots of Monsters (or beer), some blood.

    Like anything... it will only turn out as good as the amount of time you invest allows.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2015

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