dont those kits come with larger tubes for the MAF to be installed? He's running a 3" pipe so it's the same as stock.
On3 performance Twin Turbo kit
- Thread starter truebluedevil02
- Start date
dont those kits come with larger tubes for the MAF to be installed? He's running a 3" pipe so it's the same as stock.
on3performance
New Member
It does go up a 1psi or so, its repeatable and its the scale really that makes it look like that. I do have a hallman boost controller but that is running on spring pressure then
on3performance
New Member
They really have to come with a larger tube or housing, stock is well over 3" that the meter is in.
CPRsm
Active Member
Stock size is 82mm and a 3.5 tube is 89mm. A 3in tube would definitely lessen the maf range
This is not the "total" reason why some cars are getting valve float. We got valve float because we are making over 650 RWHP on our single kit. However our kit only has 1.78 back pressure with the cut out open and 1.9 with it closed.(stock mufflers)
Your not seeing any valve float for a few reasons.
1st your car isnt making any power.
2nd your not spining much RPM
3rd you dont have that much boost
When you get float you will know. well at least i would hope you would know the HP drops like a rock and it sounds like the car is misfiring.
Ill say 90% on the turbo kits out there will make enough power to pop a stock engine, before it will need valve springs. Our kit will make 650 keeping the boost low enough your not going to need springs. Its not until the use of race gas and a built engine that you need to add the valve springs.
I dont claim to know much about the current twin kits since we have not done any. So there fore im not willing to make any claims on them. I would expect the same from others in the business. Our Kit has low back pressure for a few reasons.... TESTING. We are using a Precision 66mm Wastegate and have tired a few different things with the dump tubes locations on the gates as well as different AR ratios on the turbos. We have spent alot of time trying to develop a quality kit to put on the market. Something that has a great fit, makes power, and will allow you to make BIG power later down the road. Our turbo kit is going to be a great fit for guys that are looking to buy something with quality made in the USA parts. Whats the point of buying a turbo kit if you have to change everything but the piping to make some real power?
on3performance
New Member
Eric
Thats all good information and sorry you take that as Im talking about your kit. Well Im not and before you jump the gun, Im sure I have spent just as much time as you working on a single kit as well. So please dont point your finger at me like I dont have experience as I have spent a great deal of time working on a single system and was never happy with it. That is why I now have a twin system and scrapped my whole single kit. I have jigs and all sitting here at the shop with people wanting to buy and I refused even telling them I was not happy with the overall performance. In no way am I pointing at your system, Im talking based on my own personal experience over the first 5-6 months I worked with my 2011 5.0. I have seen a photo in the magazine of it and thats it
I talked with garrett for awhile, they did a custom turbo for us that said it would control back pressure and be good, well it wasn't. Its great you were able to successfully build a good functioning single setup.
Also why are you so soon to jump the gun and basically try to put my product down? It makes you look bad. You are inferring that customers will need to change everything but the tubing on our kit to make real power, explain how you know this?
Your comment on not making power, Im not pushing it. You might target your kit for max hp, 4 digit dyno numbers and full blown race applications. Thats great but thats not the market Im trying to be in. I want to cater to the typical guy with a stock or lighty built engine that would like to drive their car daily and potentially put their car into the 8's or 9's down the road. My car will go 10's the way it sits and I think that is going to satisfy a lot of customers. Low boost, very safe tune, and the most important is driving the car and having fun. My car will make plenty more power, I do not want to even risk popping my engine before I build it. This winter Ill most likely pull it to do forged internals.
The single turbo system I first designed last year
I had this all done in 2011
Thats all good information and sorry you take that as Im talking about your kit. Well Im not and before you jump the gun, Im sure I have spent just as much time as you working on a single kit as well. So please dont point your finger at me like I dont have experience as I have spent a great deal of time working on a single system and was never happy with it. That is why I now have a twin system and scrapped my whole single kit. I have jigs and all sitting here at the shop with people wanting to buy and I refused even telling them I was not happy with the overall performance. In no way am I pointing at your system, Im talking based on my own personal experience over the first 5-6 months I worked with my 2011 5.0. I have seen a photo in the magazine of it and thats it
I talked with garrett for awhile, they did a custom turbo for us that said it would control back pressure and be good, well it wasn't. Its great you were able to successfully build a good functioning single setup.
Also why are you so soon to jump the gun and basically try to put my product down? It makes you look bad. You are inferring that customers will need to change everything but the tubing on our kit to make real power, explain how you know this?
Your comment on not making power, Im not pushing it. You might target your kit for max hp, 4 digit dyno numbers and full blown race applications. Thats great but thats not the market Im trying to be in. I want to cater to the typical guy with a stock or lighty built engine that would like to drive their car daily and potentially put their car into the 8's or 9's down the road. My car will go 10's the way it sits and I think that is going to satisfy a lot of customers. Low boost, very safe tune, and the most important is driving the car and having fun. My car will make plenty more power, I do not want to even risk popping my engine before I build it. This winter Ill most likely pull it to do forged internals.
The single turbo system I first designed last year
I had this all done in 2011
on3performance
New Member
Eric, are you running stock suspension on your car to make the turbo system work?
Hey man, you have to see where you're going to receive some heat from this kit. You're dropping a twin turbo kit on the scene at HALF the prices of everyone elses singles/twins and you're putting your own name on the turbos, gates, intercoolers which of course we know you don't manufacture in house. The cost of materials to build a twin kit using name brand parts such as Precision, Tial, Garret, etc... and all of the tubing and flanges exceeds you're selling price by probably $1000. And then the labor...
Like I said before, I would have came in at around $6000 for the kit if you still wanted to beat everyone elses prices but still maintain some value in it. For the lay person who doesn't understand the math it may fly, but people IN the industry or with lots of experience will not take easily.
Golden rule of performance cars...
Fast, Reliable and Cheap. You can only have two.
Agreed. I think on3 is fine where they're at. People want to be bashful for undercutting the market.
Here's the thing; I highly doubt this kit will take away from the business that the $8,000+ kits are getting. This is more of an entry-level kit and most people will probably steer away from it due to the 'no-name' factor.
I'm willing to test this because I have no problem doing exactly that... TESTING. If a gate fails? So be it. I'll replace it with a TiAL. Turbo fails? No big deal, I'll replace it with something else. But I can assure you; the consumer will know the ups and downs of this kit when I am done with it. We will see just how fast this kit will go and how the longevity is.
Again, props to On3 for offering a very cost friendly entry-level kit to the market. Thanks to the rest of you for offering a very high-quality, well detailed kit with top name products as well. Win-win for the consumer base.
No, he is just saying that the price point really makes people think about quality based on other kit pricing. Obviously no one wants to be charged significantly more than what said system is actually worth. But he could have set himself up and probably received less push back if the kit was priced slightly higher. The increase could have come from slightly better components or including things that are deemed required add-ons but not included in the kit.
Did you order it already? When is this actually going to be a production kit instead of a "production kit" still in testing?
Still looking forward to this kit. Cant wait to see reviews on it.
CPRsm
Active Member
Fixed. Could loose a turbo if it over spins as well. That's why we put in good parts. Not so we can charge more for a kit. Hell, I make more if the kit costs less. God damn credit card processing fees are cheaper LOL. Sure you know, but letting others knows a turbo part failing is not always without an expensive side effect.Charisma said:
qft
on3performance
New Member
All great points, maybe I shot myself in the foot on the price point. I would have to say this is the first time Ive been approached that my retail price is too low. Im sure there are guys that will not consider my kit, but there are many more people that can't drop $8k + on a kit. Im not trying to take over, Im just getting my foot in the door for this market. I have a great product and going to make a lot of 5.0 Coyote customers happy
I bought my 2011 for a reason, I drive the car daily and prove my setup one day at a time. The car has been down the track a few times, got some good races in last weekend with some of the local guys and just have fun.
Ill prove the kit over time, there really isn't any other kits on the market thats been out much longer. So to say there are other proven kits and mine isn't really doesnt make any sense. Referring specifically to my wastegate, turbos, etc, I would like to see actual data proving how the "On 3" specific brand is going to fail or cause all these issues brought up. There is a lot of talk and photos and details of just random parts, NONE OF WHICH ARE MY PRODUCT THOUGH?
I bought my 2011 for a reason, I drive the car daily and prove my setup one day at a time. The car has been down the track a few times, got some good races in last weekend with some of the local guys and just have fun.
Ill prove the kit over time, there really isn't any other kits on the market thats been out much longer. So to say there are other proven kits and mine isn't really doesnt make any sense. Referring specifically to my wastegate, turbos, etc, I would like to see actual data proving how the "On 3" specific brand is going to fail or cause all these issues brought up. There is a lot of talk and photos and details of just random parts, NONE OF WHICH ARE MY PRODUCT THOUGH?
on3performance
New Member
I want to make sure you know a lot of the products you mention though are not 100% all made in house either. Yes some of them do most production but these companies don't start at raw material to final product all under one roof.
I drive my car daily, race it, take it out on the weekends and run with some pretty quick cars. I would say in order to have it as a daily driver, it has to be reliable, I trapped 130 on just 6.5psi, thats pretty fast in my book for a bolt on turbo kit. Cheap, you can't argue the price, its the most affordable. I have all 3 but like I mentioned, I have to still prove it to everyone else.
on3performance
New Member
HPP is going to do a pretty cool build right out of the gate with our kit. It will be a built motor, auto, fuel system, etc. No doubt it will be in the 9's, curious to see if it will go into the 8's. Should get interesting
I have a large list already of the pre-order customers waiting to pay, it wont take long.
Im going to come up with some sort of fun contest for the 5.0 Coyote customers using my kit.
$xxx for the first person into the 9's with our kit
$x,xxx for the first person into the 8's with our kit
I dont have exact details right now but I think that will make it fun and exciting when I start shipping the kits next month.
That's cool, will you reimburse us high altitude folk the cost of going a few states away to try for 8's and 9's? Or maybe you could just bump it up a second to 9's and 10's if you live in CO, WY, UT etc
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