That does not suck! I guessed they would surpass the LT-5, even if it was only one horsepower, just for bragging rights. Spin that beast to 17# on a good street tune and it will be fun.
Numbers?
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100-horse pickup with less displacement AND less boost versus Trinity. Goes to show the effectiveness of variable cam timing, increased RPMs, and increased cylinder head flow.
Room for 15-psi without compromising durability of the trans.
AAAHHHMMM, no. Car mags offer consistency. They test the cars factory stock with factory offered equipment and with the best conditions available at the time the tests are conducted.
1/4 mile and Mexico runs between 2 owners of each of these cars are cool also, but I understand that you are getting a 500 correct? That means I would need to pick up a ZR1 to make it fair under this wager that we are considering doing. I'm not relying on someone I don't know race you in a ZR1, I would rather take on this task myself if I have a ZR1 (TBH at this moment I am trying to see about acquiring one if it is possible up where I live).
So this wager if we are going through with it will be comparing performance #'s between a 2019 ZR1 vs. 2020 GT500. I want to use performance results from Car & Driver since I feel they do the best testing of all cars they test (vs. the other mags) so when they get a GT500 to test we'll see what #'s they will get.
You have stated that you think the GT500 will be better on the road course than the ZR1 so I am actually looking forward to C&D doing a Lightning Lap @ VIR with the Shelby and comparing it to the ZR1 time there.
I'll PM you tomorrow, we'll set the wager and what we will be comparing AFA those performance #'s.
Tony
Im down with all that except the straight line stuff. I do not trust magazines to do anything consistent since they use vbox on regular roads, with limited driver skills.
Since you and i both seem to want fair and accurate comparisons, I suggest we agree to owners do it. I fully grasp your sandbagging concerns, but I assure you, Either Fran S of RPM, or Greg Kong/ Kong Performance, will not throw a race for/vs me, as they are friends and local, as well as we are customers of eachothers, and would absolutely want to show a W, not an L against a new 500
If Ford provides the GT500 in Michigan to the press for reviews, C&D will conduct the testing @ Chrysler's Chelsea Proving Grounds they don't test on regular local roads. Even if they get the car elsewhere they rent a local track and dragstrip to conduct the tests. Check this:
How Does C/D Test Cars?
We'll chat later...…………….. I'll PM later today.
How Does C/D Test Cars?
We'll chat later...…………….. I'll PM later today.
didnt see anything about a dragstrips there. Proving grounds is regular road. like i said, the corner carving, fine. But time and tme again, real owners go faster and have a personally vested interest in winning vs the magazines
Car should have a 10.50@135 in it private hands with great conditions
We're talking factory stock here for BOTH cars, running the tires the cars come with STOCK from the factory.
Cars rarely stay STOCK in owner hands, because they have a personal vested interest in winning something will be done to them before they meet up and passing it to the other party as "stock".
Your estimated 10.50 @ 135 for the Shelby may be possible, at MIR if the stars align and on a tire (with no other changes)...………..no way in hell it's running that off the showroom floor.
FYI, C&D has listed 10.80@135mph for the ZR1 and that's on the proving ground regular roads that LostM doesn't prefer. I have a hard time believing the 500 will run that from the factory but we shall see.
Cars rarely stay STOCK in owner hands, because they have a personal vested interest in winning something will be done to them before they meet up and passing it to the other party as "stock".
Your estimated 10.50 @ 135 for the Shelby may be possible, at MIR if the stars align and on a tire (with no other changes)...………..no way in hell it's running that off the showroom floor.
FYI, C&D has listed 10.80@135mph for the ZR1 and that's on the proving ground regular roads that LostM doesn't prefer. I have a hard time believing the 500 will run that from the factory but we shall see.
I am pretty sure that time is with the manual full aero car. The gt500 has zero chance against a Zr1 in an all things equal comparison. The standard wing A8 will pull away easily in a straight line and the full aero car will be seconds ahead of the 500 on a roadcourse. The GT500 will be around 1 second avg faster than a Zl1 1LE.
Why wouldnt you be able to find a ZR1 up wherever you are?
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C&D tested the ZR1 A8 car.
Allocations are kinda done for a C7 ZR1, I've checked 3 dealers where I live and they can't order one. I'm not interested in a used car I want new and am kinda late to the party.
Allocations are kinda done for a C7 ZR1, I've checked 3 dealers where I live and they can't order one. I'm not interested in a used car I want new and am kinda late to the party.
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,yes, for several reasons. 1 C&D has consistently NOT provided the best times for cars. they do NOT use dragtsrips to run at. they use a highly fallible gps system
why would I agree to a magazine race with 0 correlating conditions vs a real race between 2 skilled and stock competitors at the same place and the same time, both eager to win?
I'm going to disagree with you on the testing C&D does, their testing data is basically the same as the other mags, yes some mags may get a better test time but that's just different factors and conditions on the day of the test.
Here's what the other mags got for the ZR1:
Motor Trend is 10.8 @ 133.1 (so slightly slower mph than C&D but same time)
Road & Track got 10.6 @ 134 and they got 2.85 0-60
So just because they didn't run the cars on a dragstrip doesn't mean they aren't getting the best #'s as a basic test of performance of all cars (it's not like they ran the ZR1 on a proving ground road then decide to run the Shelby on a fully prepped dragstrip). This is what I'm saying about consistency, the same testing standard, on the same surfaces as close as possible between cars tested on different days. If you watch the C&D vid they adjust the times on the acceleration tests to account for different weather conditions. The only way to prevent this is for them to actually do an article testing both a ZR1 and GT500 on the same day on the same track surfaces.
I do not feel assured that you will keep your car "stock" when you run a ZR1, just like I don't think the ZR1 owner is going to show up also with a "stock" vehicle.
I'm wagering a bet with you on the performance #'s of a factory stock 2020 GT500 as tested by a leading car magazine that has already tested a factory stock 2019 ZR1 and has published times. I'm not betting on a race between these 2 cars that show up at a track that more than likely already has hidden mods done and past off as stock just to prove 1 car is faster than the other. Based on your other posts here on this car, you haven't even ordered your car yet and you are already talking mods so I don't feel confident that your car will be stock when you line up to run that ZR1. I would feel different however if I was the one that shows up with a ZR1 to run the race against you.
Here's what the other mags got for the ZR1:
Motor Trend is 10.8 @ 133.1 (so slightly slower mph than C&D but same time)
Road & Track got 10.6 @ 134 and they got 2.85 0-60
So just because they didn't run the cars on a dragstrip doesn't mean they aren't getting the best #'s as a basic test of performance of all cars (it's not like they ran the ZR1 on a proving ground road then decide to run the Shelby on a fully prepped dragstrip). This is what I'm saying about consistency, the same testing standard, on the same surfaces as close as possible between cars tested on different days. If you watch the C&D vid they adjust the times on the acceleration tests to account for different weather conditions. The only way to prevent this is for them to actually do an article testing both a ZR1 and GT500 on the same day on the same track surfaces.
I do not feel assured that you will keep your car "stock" when you run a ZR1, just like I don't think the ZR1 owner is going to show up also with a "stock" vehicle.
I'm wagering a bet with you on the performance #'s of a factory stock 2020 GT500 as tested by a leading car magazine that has already tested a factory stock 2019 ZR1 and has published times. I'm not betting on a race between these 2 cars that show up at a track that more than likely already has hidden mods done and past off as stock just to prove 1 car is faster than the other. Based on your other posts here on this car, you haven't even ordered your car yet and you are already talking mods so I don't feel confident that your car will be stock when you line up to run that ZR1. I would feel different however if I was the one that shows up with a ZR1 to run the race against you.
right, but im against drag race and head to head from any magazines. those are roadcourse guys, on a regular paved road, with a gps device. if they took them to the track, on the same day, same driver, id be all about it
The lightning is trash for comparing best possible lap times. You have different amateur drivers who can’t lay down consistent same day lap times with the same car, driving cars with limited seat time on different days with different track conditions, all while comparing similar cars with different drivers of different skills then trying to do this over a number of years with varying track conditions and different asphalt! It was so bad that ford who does not produce timed videos did just that as the 11 GT500 was misrepresented so bad!
That’s how you get times like the ones below:
15 Mustang GT 1.52
16 991 GT3 1.57
16 c7z06 1.56
Now do you really believe the accuracy of the above times?
Indications of a 1.24.3 track time at big willow give the 20 500 big cred. This is faster than Pobst’s C6Z06 and 600LT time there but not as fast as his time in the ZR1.
Willow Springs lap times - FastestLaps.com
Since when does a 15 Mustang GT do 1:52 on the full VIR course? C&D only does Lightning laps on that track please tell me those times you posted above are for a different track.
The drivers are representative of the everyday person that has some track experience and what they would get on that particular track if they ran these cars. Are they perfect drivers? No, are you???
I've never said lap times of the cars at VIR that C&D does on their LL articles are gospel, it's a good comparison of what a car can do on that track and the capability when you flog them.
Maybe if they put Jim Mero in the ZR1 at VIR he would get a better lap time than the 2:39.5 the person from C&D got. The results are the results, I mean if they repaved VIR before they ran the new GT500 and it matched the ZR1 time then the Shelby is capable of lapping the track quicker with a better driver. It's only a gauge people. When I'm interested in buying that type of car I want to see the performance #'s before laying down my money, the #'s I see tell me if the car performs the way it should with the specs it has from the manufacturer, that's it.
So LostM, if you didn't have a problem with what C&D will do with the new GT500 @ VIR when they Lightning lap it you shouldn't have a problem with them testing the car through all the acceleration times...……….again it's a gauge. They got 10.8 @ 135 with the ZR1 and generally on the same pavement they will get what they get with the 500, if it has the cajones and can put down the power it should run a decent et in their hands, then you get yours on the dragstrip and you may or may not get a better time but at least you know generally what the car can do before you fork out your cash for one.
I'll stand by my statement, (AFA the cars are concerned not counting the driver equation), a 2020 GT500 off the showroom floor WILL NOT touch a bone stock 2019 ZR1 on any track, anybody that thinks otherwise is nuts.
Tony
The drivers are representative of the everyday person that has some track experience and what they would get on that particular track if they ran these cars. Are they perfect drivers? No, are you???
I've never said lap times of the cars at VIR that C&D does on their LL articles are gospel, it's a good comparison of what a car can do on that track and the capability when you flog them.
Maybe if they put Jim Mero in the ZR1 at VIR he would get a better lap time than the 2:39.5 the person from C&D got. The results are the results, I mean if they repaved VIR before they ran the new GT500 and it matched the ZR1 time then the Shelby is capable of lapping the track quicker with a better driver. It's only a gauge people. When I'm interested in buying that type of car I want to see the performance #'s before laying down my money, the #'s I see tell me if the car performs the way it should with the specs it has from the manufacturer, that's it.
So LostM, if you didn't have a problem with what C&D will do with the new GT500 @ VIR when they Lightning lap it you shouldn't have a problem with them testing the car through all the acceleration times...……….again it's a gauge. They got 10.8 @ 135 with the ZR1 and generally on the same pavement they will get what they get with the 500, if it has the cajones and can put down the power it should run a decent et in their hands, then you get yours on the dragstrip and you may or may not get a better time but at least you know generally what the car can do before you fork out your cash for one.
I'll stand by my statement, (AFA the cars are concerned not counting the driver equation), a 2020 GT500 off the showroom floor WILL NOT touch a bone stock 2019 ZR1 on any track, anybody that thinks otherwise is nuts.
Tony
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Here's Pobst's ZR1 lap of Big Willow. If they gave him more seat time I'm sure he could drop that time down a bit more than what he ran. There are several corners where he hanged the tail out and us road course guys know that doesn't give you the best lap times (looks good though).
I want to see him run the GT500 there when they can test one, give him the same # of laps that he got to flog the ZR1 and we will see if the Shelby is faster.
I want to see him run the GT500 there when they can test one, give him the same # of laps that he got to flog the ZR1 and we will see if the Shelby is faster.
Ahhhh the real world on a road course.
Any lap time comparisons that arent same day same driver are entirely 100% useless. I see people putting down 20 entire retarded second differences in the same car on the same day, no joke, while that is one extreme to another it still applies to different more experienced drivers as well. Hence LL being a waste of time. Same with 1/4 mile runs on dusty air strips
Again, it's a gauge to see what a car generally can do if they are tested on different days...…………..guess we need to wait till 1 of the mags do a "best driver's car comparsion test" or something like that then they will have both cars in 1 place to test on the same track on the same day.
It was full course Sears Point for all three cars/times.
If I take your way, the times above show obviously the Mustang GT is faster than either the z06 or GT3.
Point is when you have different drivers different days times are skewed and irrelevant! Just as LL is crap for times.
That’s what they do and that’s why Randy’s times even though they are different days are much more relevant!
I’d guess faster than his z06 time but slower than the zr1.
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