I'll turn that shitty dial to D every time I get in it and smile a big dirty grin
Numbers soon?
- Thread starter DepWraith
- Start date
Please don't misunderstand my comment; I'm not a fan of the no stick option approach. I was just stating my thoughts....F1, Indycar, Top Fuel, and Funny Car drivers might concur. The 'blow the tires off' appeal may not be as good but the true performance of said vehicle increases with an auto or semi-auto variant. Skynet is here with regard to automobile transmissions.
I am looking forward to being a shiftless person as soon as possible.
Besides trying to crank up the official hp #'s before the announcement deadline I also hope that they are fine tuning that DCT so it shifts as quick as possible and be durable. This is where I have a feeling that the first year production run could have issues with the DCT as it is something new Ford is using on a Mustang with the power/torque that 5.2 is going to make.
I've been thinking about all the work they are doing trying to get the most hp #'s out of the engine before officially revealing them but here are my thoughts:
The closest engine avail. now compared to this one is the 2019 LT5 ZR1 engine (755hp/715 ft./lbs torque). That's a 6.2L engine 1L larger in displacement to the Predator (we won't even worry about the hellcat redeye engine the new GT500 is not going to come even close to 797hp IMO).
Having 1L less displacement I personally can't see the 5.2L match or surpass the 755 # of the ZR1 with the testing standards and emissions stuff it has to meet. Now Ford can overrate the engine to make it look like they are getting that # or better but the rollers will tell the story once these cars are in people's hands and they find out what hp they're making at the wheels.
I say 740-745 and I'm being generous. We also need to know the weight of the car, ultimately power to weight ratio dictate how fast this car will be (DCT and traction will have an effect).
13/14 Shelby 3900lbs./662hp=5.89lbs./hp
2020 GT500 4200lbs. (est.)/745hp=5.64lbs./hp
2019 ZR1 3700lbs./755hp=4.90lbs./hp
Hellcat Redeye 4450lbs./797hp=5.58lbs./hp
Tony
I've watched the video numerous times that your screenshots came from and I can't see how those are full throttle runs. If that person driving the car did actually mat it that engine was not revving that quickly up the rpm scale. They looked more like a roll than a full throttle stomp.
The man who’s known all from the beginning.
Oh yeah, they’ve always underrated the numbers.
im trying to remember the guy on insta I follow that is reviewing/test driving these cars, and he stated the dct is the best driving one hes felt, more so than the porsche pdk, to paraphrase. ill post a screenshot when I find it. But also in the Shelby event video, the DCT did sound a little funky.. so I also hope they are fine tuning that, more so than the HP
i have a feeling that car was, as you said, not WOT, or nowhere near its final HP #. it looked rather slow, but also did sound to be full throttle
The Coyote has been punching above its weight vs. the LS/LT motors ever since it's inception in 2011.
This motor will be no different and will easily make every bit as much power as the ZR1's LT5 or more.
Compression is usually worth 3% per point. I was way off there, typed it too fast.
2.5pts down of compression would be about 7.5% down so all in all 478/1.06= 445hp.
445hp*(12/14.7+1) is 808hp.
445hp*(11/14.7+1) is 778hp.
445hp*(10/14.7+1) is 748hp.
Buuuuuut, we aren’t factoring in parasitic drag of about 50hp at 7500rpm on a 2.65 TVS so...
12psi= 758hp
11psi=728hp
10psi=698hp
They could run 13psi or 12.5psi and be fine imo.
To test that math, I did it on my cobra’s turbo cammer clone. I have an 09 cammer block, stage 3 gt500 heads/cams, and cammer intake. I assumed 500hp crank.
500*(10.78/14.7+1)=866.67hp.
I put down 815whp on 10.78psi.
Obviously the grand am cup cammer mills made north of 400whp but shy of 450whp in uncorked condition. Mine is a hair lower on compression, but more aggressive head and cam. That wouldn’t matter na, but I assumed 450whp/500hp because with boost my engine has more potential to make power than a traditional cammer mill did.
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If it’s 12psi, I see upto 760hp happening.
Keep this in mind when you look at that 1L difference, the na lt1 makes 455hp at 6.2L. The na 5.0 coyote makes 460hp.
5.0 is smaller than 5.2.
I have a buddy with a 10.5/1 6.3L built twin 62mm turbo ls3. 8” runner custom intake, heads, cam, etc. Makes 700whp on 10-11psi, my twin 62 8000rpm 5.3 modular makes 815whp on 10.78psi.
Anyways, back to the big 3:
Chevy: 455hp/6.2L
Dodge: 485hp/6.4L
Bullit: 475hp/5.0L
Gt350: 526hp/5.2L
Ohv is hard to get to about 80-85hp/L with very reliable and inexpensive parts. Mass producable and warrenty’d.
Dohc can cross 90-95hp/L pretty cheap and reliably. This is due to better accuracy of inlet, compression, combustion and exhaust cycles.
Thing is good luck changing a mother****ing driver head gasket in your garage or a mother****ing timing chain assembly with these 4 cam ****mobile motors. Been through that shit and am over the size issues. Give me a bigger push rod and I’ll buy some extra gas. Futur builds, I’m doing simple pushrods. Stuff breaks and the hassle of pulling a modular engine in and out is a tuff sell to me for the 12.5-17.5% of additional potential.
The engineer I spoke to said the Tremec DCT was great all around, shifts hard and fast on track and comfortable in auto mode. I’m personally looking forward to trying it.
-J
Yes, I understand Coyote 5.0 and Voodoo 5.2 over achieve on making ponies but nowadays you can crank the wick up on pretty well anything and it will make power.
I'm strictly talking factory offerings and durability. I'm sure Ford can make wwwayyy over 700++++ hp if they wanted to on the Predator but they gotta balance that with longevity unless they like spending tons of coin on warranty repairs.
All those boosted 5.0's I'm sure make tons of power and run great but if you drive it like you stole it ALL THE TIME something will happen and you'll be spinning wrenches more than you're out there driving it and enjoying it.
Even Ford themselves had said (according to Tob above in his post) for the 13/14 they tried to wring out more from the 5.8 but emissions and cat durability became an issue. It will be the same thing for this engine, from the manufacturing standpoint you can only go so far to make sure the package delivers and customers are happy with a product free of problems (as much as possible). What you do with the car afterwards is up to you but you will be dealing with the negative issues when they pop up and not Ford.
I'm strictly talking factory offerings and durability. I'm sure Ford can make wwwayyy over 700++++ hp if they wanted to on the Predator but they gotta balance that with longevity unless they like spending tons of coin on warranty repairs.
All those boosted 5.0's I'm sure make tons of power and run great but if you drive it like you stole it ALL THE TIME something will happen and you'll be spinning wrenches more than you're out there driving it and enjoying it.
Even Ford themselves had said (according to Tob above in his post) for the 13/14 they tried to wring out more from the 5.8 but emissions and cat durability became an issue. It will be the same thing for this engine, from the manufacturing standpoint you can only go so far to make sure the package delivers and customers are happy with a product free of problems (as much as possible). What you do with the car afterwards is up to you but you will be dealing with the negative issues when they pop up and not Ford.
It is indeed the same for this engine. J stated recently in talks with an engineer he ran into while out driving a 2020 GT500 mule that Ford had the same issue with cat durability at elevated HP levels. Makes you wonder how Dodge or Bugatti handles it...
Right,....but what my man, @gimmie11s is saying is that the Coyotes make it look so effortlessly.
It's all relative isn't it? Ford DOHC engines spin higher to make better hp #'s but LS/LT engines make more torque lower in the rpm scale so in a way it balances out.
I still like my torque down low but want the high rpm power up top also.
Also, 5.0 engines has that nasty tick noise, LS7's have that valve guide issue so no matter what you can't win.
I still like my torque down low but want the high rpm power up top also.
Also, 5.0 engines has that nasty tick noise, LS7's have that valve guide issue so no matter what you can't win.
Best engine or rather power source is electric from a drive it like you stole it perspective but they are so boring from a visceral/loud and enjoyable and characteristically unique standpoint.
I like driving various cars with everything from turbo 4 cylinder to v12 to turbo v12 and so on to feel all the different power delivery options.
You get into an electric car like a Tesla p100d and it’s very fast from a dig or low speed roll but sooooooooooooo mind numbingly quiet and steril.
Put a tiny gas engine like 3L v8 with a Tesla p100d for just something to hear. Have it drive a charging system for the batteries and run it on hydrogenZ. Revs up or down based on throttle position like a cvt.
Wow, that’s actually a ****ing great idea.
Ok I’m off to talk with Elon, goodbye SVTPerformance, I’ll be back when I have some money from this venture
I like driving various cars with everything from turbo 4 cylinder to v12 to turbo v12 and so on to feel all the different power delivery options.
You get into an electric car like a Tesla p100d and it’s very fast from a dig or low speed roll but sooooooooooooo mind numbingly quiet and steril.
Put a tiny gas engine like 3L v8 with a Tesla p100d for just something to hear. Have it drive a charging system for the batteries and run it on hydrogenZ. Revs up or down based on throttle position like a cvt.
Wow, that’s actually a ****ing great idea.
Ok I’m off to talk with Elon, goodbye SVTPerformance, I’ll be back when I have some money from this venture
A little birdy told me yesterday that program information on the 2020 GT500 will be announced at the end of the month. And of note...it sounds like dealers are only going to be allotted 1 allocation in the first year. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there are roughly 3,000 Ford/LM dealers in the US.
Wow,.....to me that kinda sucks. That's just my personal opinion.
So many of us, if we really wanted one, will not be getting one. I wonder how they'll handle it second model year, 2021?
I dont think it sucks that bad... it means you're gonna have to travel if you live in a metro area.
Are there 3k ppl that are waiting to plunk down 80k for a mustang? Maybe, but I highly doubt it. Making 6k+ would have been a mistake cause I dont see that many moving on a 1st MY 80k mustang.
2nd MY isn't a terrible thing either, worst case.
Are there 3k ppl that are waiting to plunk down 80k for a mustang? Maybe, but I highly doubt it. Making 6k+ would have been a mistake cause I dont see that many moving on a 1st MY 80k mustang.
2nd MY isn't a terrible thing either, worst case.
I'm pretty sure that there will be 3k people chomping on the bit to buy this car. Just a guess, but in my opinion, I think they'll sell all 3k of them. Just like Dodge did with the Demon.
I wouldn't mind a 2nd MY as well. I just wish Ford did it like GM with the ZR1 and Z06. If you want one, go order one. If you want a Hellcat Redeye, go order one.
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