North Texas Express lanes

[latinheat1018]

Hello,

I need a bit of advice. I was pulled over on the new north Texas express lanes. I was doing about 85 mph while everyone else was going around 80.
Here's why it's bothering me though, there isn't a single speed limit sign along the entire length of the express lanes. The state trooper informed me of article 545.352 which sets the speed limit to 70 mph. After that he handed me the citation, I thanked him for his work and drove off.
So the violation is for 10% over the speed limit. Now I understand paying for the speeding but what has me upset is the potential surcharge on my license.
This was an honest mistake, I mean after all how could I possibly know about that article. It's definitely not covered in drivers ed.

I guess my question is, what would be the best way to handle this?

Thank you,

Manuel


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[DHG1078]

Thats actually a hair over 21% over the speed limit.

There are usually state statues, and should be in drivers ed, that apply a standard speed limit for different road types that you must obey, even if it isn't posted.

 

[CobraBob]

Are you going to court and take your chances before the judge? Or were you planning on just paying the fine?

 

[RDJ]

1. 70? read this article see if it covers the road you were on: http://www.star-telegram.com/news/traffic/article21949332.html

2. get a video camera .. or go pro .. video the entire drive from where you got on to where you got stopped ... showing no speed limit signs along your route .... be prepared to show the judge ... if you can get video on other toll roads that have speed limit signs.

frankly I am sceptical of no speed limit signs, every toll road I have ever been on in Texas has had speed limit signs so you need to make sure your statement that there arent any are accurate.

3. can you take the driver education program for this? you get one ticket a year that goes away if you can.

Hello,

I need a bit of advice. I was pulled over on the new north Texas express lanes. I was doing about 85 mph while everyone else was going around 80.
Here's why it's bothering me though, there isn't a single speed limit sign along the entire length of the express lanes. The state trooper informed me of article 545.352 which sets the speed limit to 70 mph. After that he handed me the citation, I thanked him for his work and drove off.
So the violation is for 10% over the speed limit. Now I understand paying for the speeding but what has me upset is the potential surcharge on my license.
This was an honest mistake, I mean after all how could I possibly know about that article. It's definitely not covered in drivers ed.

I guess my question is, what would be the best way to handle this?

Thank you,

Manuel


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[latinheat1018]

Are you going to court and take your chances before the judge? Or were you planning on just paying the fine?

Honestly I just wanted to pay the fine. It's the easiest thing to do. Enter a no contest plea and be done with it. But idk if that's an option for me. As far as taking my chances. I understand what happened, but at the same time the circumstances weren't the best. I even explained I the trooper that this was only my second time ever on the express lanes. So I thought a warning would be in order, given that there are zero signs.


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[latinheat1018]

Thats actually a hair over 21% over the speed limit.

There are usually state statues, and should be in drivers ed, that apply a standard speed limit for different road types that you must obey, even if it isn't posted.

I understand that. At the same time drivers ed was a really long time ago. And as I explained to the trooper that this was only my second time ever on those lanes, I thought a warning would be in order. I'm fine with the citation. I don't mind paying it. I just don't want to be judged or treated as if I was deliberately racing on the toll lanes dreaming of being in the next fast and furious movie. No, I'm very responsible. Public roads are for everyone. And misbehaving not only risks my life but also the life of others. I was rear ended by a drunk driver last year. I still suffer back pain from it. So the last thing I ever want to do is cause someone this kind of suffering because I was being irresponsible.
With that said, I just want the judge, or whoever presides over this. That it was a genuine misunderstanding.


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[latinheat1018]

1. 70? read this article see if it covers the road you were on: http://www.star-telegram.com/news/traffic/article21949332.html

2. get a video camera .. or go pro .. video the entire drive from where you got on to where you got stopped ... showing no speed limit signs along your route .... be prepared to show the judge ... if you can get video on other toll roads that have speed limit signs.

frankly I am sceptical of no speed limit signs, every toll road I have ever been on in Texas has had speed limit signs so you need to make sure your statement that there arent any are accurate.

3. can you take the driver education program for this? you get one ticket a year that goes away if you can.

No, I get it. The no speed limit signs thing is really weird. These lanes work both ways though. Depending on traffic demands. But even then I think forward and backward facing signs would be helpful. Unfortunately the article doesn't apply because I'm in Denton county.
I mean if I have to take a defensive driving course for this then fine.
What has me upset is facing maximum penalty for what was clearly a mistake.


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[latinheat1018]

Thanks to everyone for all the responses so far. Very helpful.


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[DHG1078]

Don't forget, if you just pay the fine and don't go to drivers ed, your insurance rates will go up.

 

[Dinosgt]

Thanks to everyone for all the responses so far. Very helpful.


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I've been through this in Texas. Just go to the court house and select 'probation before judgment' (or 'deferred prosecution', I don't recall the term).

You pay a little extra, but if you go 90 days without any other violations, they drop the ticket and assess no points.

You also can do traffic school if that's preferable.

Good luck.


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[dam2v]

I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm pretty sure the only speed limit sign posted is when first entering the express to begin with. I avoid using them at all costs because they are such a scam. Digital signs so they can change the price at any moment taking advantage of rush hours. They can set it at $25 and people will still use it and as long as they do they will be here to stay.

 

[TK1299]

Sec. 545.352. PRIMA FACIE SPEED LIMITS. (a) A speed in excess of the limits established by Subsection (b) or under another provision of this subchapter is prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable and prudent and that the speed is unlawful.

(b) Unless a special hazard exists that requires a slower speed for compliance with Section 545.351(b), the following speeds are lawful:

(1) 30 miles per hour in an urban district on a street other than an alley and 15 miles per hour in an alley;

(2) except as provided by Subdivision (4), 70 miles per hour on a highway numbered by this state or the United States outside an urban district, including a farm-to-market or ranch-to-market road;

Unfortunately "not knowing" is not a defense to prosecution. You can do as someone has suggested and photograph or video the roadway from where you entered to where you were stopped and show there were no signs. Go to court and hope for the best.

 

[latinheat1018]

Sec. 545.352. PRIMA FACIE SPEED LIMITS. (a) A speed in excess of the limits established by Subsection (b) or under another provision of this subchapter is prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable and prudent and that the speed is unlawful.

(b) Unless a special hazard exists that requires a slower speed for compliance with Section 545.351(b), the following speeds are lawful:

(1) 30 miles per hour in an urban district on a street other than an alley and 15 miles per hour in an alley;

(2) except as provided by Subdivision (4), 70 miles per hour on a highway numbered by this state or the United States outside an urban district, including a farm-to-market or ranch-to-market road;

Unfortunately "not knowing" is not a defense to prosecution. You can do as someone has suggested and photograph or video the roadway from where you entered to where you were stopped and show there were no signs. Go to court and hope for the best.

Yes I understand that. I'm not trying to get away from the ticket or anything. As I explained earlier. Im looking for the best possible outcome for myself based on the fact that I didn't do this with intent. Like I said, it would be fair to penalize me in the same way you would some jerk switching lanes with no turn signals at 90 mph because everyone is trying to race him so he must win. We all know that jerk. Specially with the cars we drive. I'm sure everyone here is familiar with the guy that pulls up to a stop light next to you and starts revving their engine as if public roads were drag strips.
See what I'm saying?
Again, I'm not looking to get off the ticket or anything like that. Just looking for advice on how to best handle this.
I may have to do the camera thing though. Either way, thank you for your help


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[TK1299]

I understand what you are saying, but it will not hold weight in a courtroom. There are four levels of culpability in Texas: intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, and criminally negligent. The last one will be used to describe your actions. I know it sounds harsh, but its what it is. I see three choices here imho, video and then request a court date. Show up to court with the video and plea with the judge and hope he is lenient. Or take defensive driving so it keeps any surcharge for your license away. Or pay the fine and go about your day. Sorry it happened man, but you seem understanding about it.

 

[RDJ]

How do you figure " criminally negligent" ? Nothing in the op or subsequent posts by the op mentions anything of the sort. Although in rereading his posts a certain amount of hysteria seems to bleed through.

Op: post up the exact statute you were charged with. Or scan the ticket with you personal info blacked out.

I understand what you are saying, but it will not hold weight in a courtroom. There are four levels of culpability in Texas: intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, and criminally negligent. The last one will be used to describe your actions. I know it sounds harsh, but its what it is. I see three choices here imho, video and then request a court date. Show up to court with the video and plea with the judge and hope he is lenient. Or take defensive driving so it keeps any surcharge for your license away. Or pay the fine and go about your day. Sorry it happened man, but you seem understanding about it.

 

[TK1299]

Criminally Neglient due to negligence of the law. He didn't know so can't be intentionally or knowingly. His actions weren't really reckless, so what's left? It seems like we are starting to split hairs at this point. I'm not trying to be an ass, just trying to offer help like he asked for. I'm definitely not trying to make the op look bad. Just helping prepare him for whatever he might face if he chooses to go to court.

 

[DHG1078]

The problem with the OP's story though is that he admittedly was driving faster than everyone else on the road. If he didn't know what the speed limit was, why would he assume it was faster than everyone else? Thats what any judge will ask. It won't get thrown out just because there was no sign.

I'd also like to know where there is an 85mph speed limit in the states. I want to move there.

 

[TK1299]

Let me make up one more thing... the op said he was going faster than everyone else. That kinda helps qualify my statement. Obviously he was observed driving faster than everyone else, hence the reason he was pulled over. That kinda also fits criminally negligent. Man I'm getting good at making us BS

 

[RDJ]

The problem with the OP's story though is that he admittedly was driving faster than everyone else on the road. If he didn't know what the speed limit was, why would he assume it was faster than everyone else? Thats what any judge will ask. It won't get thrown out just because there was no sign.

he says his estimation was that everyone else was going 80 and he was tagged for 85. not an unreasonable amount faster than anyone else. according to what I posted the assumed STATE speed limit on some roads of this type is 75 not 70. His assumptions about the speed limit while not really logical for that part of Texas, based on what he claims the rest of the cars were doing it doesn't suprise me that the assumption was made.

Frankly if I were the OP I would just take the on line traffic school and have the ticket wiped off my record, assuming he is eligible for it

I'd also like to know where there is an 85mph speed limit in the states. I want to move there.

most of SH130 running from just north of Georgetown TX south to San Antonio the speed limit is 85. there are a TON of roads where the speed limit is 70-75 so you can easily go 80 without any real issues as long as you are not being stupid about it.

 

[DHG1078]

he says his estimation was that everyone else was going 80 and he was tagged for 85. not an unreasonable amount faster than anyone else.

5 MPH over is typically not unreasonable, I drive 10+ over quite often, but you can't argue you don't know the speed limit when you're the fastest guy on the road. Its clearly slower than you are driving.