NASA ST3 - eliminating PTA/TTA

[brkntrxn]

Suprised none of you are following this thread. This affects Doug and a couple of others.

I, for one, am not happy about it.


nasaforums.com • View topic - ST3 Re-visited


Kevin

 

[racebronco2]

It's not going to effect me, i usually run in ttu:banana:

 

[ac427cobra]

I've had only four experiences running with NASA.

My first NASA event I ran HPDE4 at Mid-Ohio in 2004. Lawrence Mansier was the region director at the time and the event ran like clockwork. It was a fun event although the weather didn't really cooperate. Run groups were not crowded in the least.

My second NASA event I ran at Road America in 2005. Again Lawrence Mansier was still the region director. The NASA team running the event actually encouraged me to run TTB and I took first place. Car counts were reasonable and acceptable. We had passing anywhere on the track, including corners in both HPDE4 and TTB.

My third NASA event I ran in 2007, again at Road America, was hands down, the worst open track event I attended in eleven years. Car counts were more than double compared to what I was accustomed to at Road America and no passing was allowed in the turns. We normally have 30 cars in a run group. This event had 73!!!!!!!! We actually had people complaining in the HPDE4 group that cars were going too fast. :dw: "The closing speeds on those maniacs driving those Mustangs is crazy!" (actual quote) I passed a Volkswagen bug (yes, he was running in the HPDE4 group running TT whatever) going 20 MPH (with an open track ahead of him) during a yellow flag because I thought he had a mechanical issue. Of course I got a black flag. :fart: Tried to explain to the grid worker that I honestly thought this asshat had a mechanical issue because he was going 20 miles an hour and this was on an open track with a yellow flag and nothing preventing him from going faster. Safety issue!! Hello!!! I've driven faster than 20 miles an hour avoiding debris after an accident because I don't want to get rear ended!!

My last NASA event was running American Iron with my new Boss 302S last Fall and after that event one of the competitors in a 90's vintage Camaro put up a bitch storm on the NASA message board that the Mustang Boss had an unfair advantage (because of their ABS :rollseyes) over twenty year old Camaro technology and NASA ended up giving the Camaro's 9-1 P-W over the 9-1/2 Mustang P-W. I think I'm pretty much done with NASA.

Racing and politics just doesn't mix.

FWIW

 

[wheelhopper]

I'll have to check this one out. I never planned to run TTA. Currently TTD and will more than likely be TTC once all changes are done to car. I had then thought of converting the car to CMC, but I have really considered leaving the Mustang a TT and HPDE car and getting a Spec E30

 

[wheelhopper]

Bruce, it is unfortunate that you had such a bad experience running with NASA. I would say NASA is one of the best orginizations I have run with. I do run with the MA division mostly ,which I hear is the best. I have also run with the SE and which was a good experience. I let you know after I do Watkins Glen next weekend how the NE division is.

 

[brkntrxn]

SE is the best division, poke poke.


Bruce,

Hate to hear that. I think we all have had bad experiences with various groups over the years. For me, I have no other playground in which to competively play with the car.

 

[ac427cobra]

Doug and Kevin:

I've had great experiences with the BMW Club, the Audi Club and one of my favorite groups to run with is the Northwood's Shelby Club. These are all well run events with great people. Perhaps I've just been spoiled? :shrug:

 

[brkntrxn]

Maybe so, Bruce. I got spoiled with THSCC and Asphalt Ventures, but I cannot rave with them.

 

[wheelhopper]

The problem with the clubs is no racing. You have to have points to pass and sometimes you are limited to passing zones. The good part of running with a club is that you tend to get more track time, since they don't have to set time aside for racing.

Kevin, stop, we both know MA is better.

Bruce, you need to load up the motor home and bring your car to WV next August. You could do a NASA MA event at Summit Main then run the following weekend with SCMC at Summit Shenandoah. I am confident you would not be disappointed in running with us over here.

 

[PushinTheLimit]

I've weighed in on the ST3 class on the other forum... and I hope it helps to get better car counts for ST2 and ST3 both. Eliminating STR1 and STR2 will help since cars like the Panoz can run with those classes again with a points modifier.

If there was somehow a merger for GTS classes with ST classes it would help car counts and make for some interesting racing. I agree with you Kevin that ST3 will be more expensive to be competitive than PTA, but some of the trade offs I think will help. Wider tires (better overall for racing), big brakes (initial cost is more, but brake pads are cheaper and last longer), etc.

Since it looks like the class will allow cars without aero some assistance, it probably benefits older T1 cars like mine and Tim's more so than some others. Also, a little higher weight/power could bring in more mustangs, STI's, Evo's, Lotus Elise (already one in ST2 that's fast) and some others. Would be better to kill Spec Z so the 350's could run ST3 too.

Now once they finish up and determine the class and rules, they need to leave them alone for at least 3 years before making any small adjustments.

 

[PushinTheLimit]

The more I think about this new ST3 Kevin, the more I don't really care for it. I only started in ST2 to begin with was because I knew my car wasn't PTA legal at the time and noone in the SE ran the class. I never figured I would be competitive my first year racing anyways and thought that ST2 would give me a chance to race against cars fairly close to me and just see how I would do. I did better than I thought I would... but once a real ST2 showed up, I had no chance.

Last year at Road Atlanta, out of the cars that were running ST2 that day, I was 3rd with Brian, Kevin Clifford and Rob Leopard close behind. Brian's car was well prepped for PTA and I'll call mine PTA+ prepped since really the only things that knocked me out of PTA at that point was my exhaust, front brake calipers and wide tires. Still had stock rubber bushings in the car. We were all very close and having a blast... while Danny Popp was about 1/2 lap ahead and Vannucci was 10-15 seconds ahead of us.

If I could go back, I would have still ran ST2 in 2011, but right before Nationals, prep the car for PTA and competed against Mark, Scott and Jason and see how it went.

 

[TXPD]

the problem with pta particularly for those in this forum is the points system. its just not feesable to race my car in pta because the equipment would be based on a 2005 mustang gt. a 2005 fr500c has a different engine, transmission, rear diff and gear, different front brakes, different front suspension and more.

the car is no faster than a pta corvette if that. i looked at it seriously and it was a waste of time. it was like the rejection from scca about t1. the car didnt have a vin# and that was all she wrote.

 

[wheelhopper]

If you have an S197 chassis Mustang, don't plan to run CMC. I have picked up through the grape vine that they will not be allowed. CMC is going to be old school style Mustangs

 

[TXPD]

thats just dumb

 

[01mnrelgraycbra]

Any idea where the current s197 CMC cars will be running, forced to AI?

 

[TXPD]

looking at the cmc forum i see no sign of s197 banishment including in the new rules section. i see one post referencing a rumor and thats it.

 

[wheelhopper]

A friend of mine, who runs CMC and is friends with Kent the NASA MA CMC director, told me that is what is currently being discussed. From my understanding Kent wants to allow S197 cars. The potential ban is for the 5.0 model. The 4.6 would still be allowed. I can see where it would be tough for a 420hp car to make the hp/wt ratio and if NASA increased the ratio then that would bring AI and CMC closer together which I am guessing would lead to a potential combining of those classes. Maybe they'll just ban the 5.0 but allow the 3.7.

 

[TXPD]

the coyote 5 liter is ai power stock. its not a shock that they would rule that engine out. but s197 cars arent all 5 liters. most arent.